Strategy Trade and List Management thread 4 (Be sure to huddle around your transitor radio at 11 am Edition)

Is the Stringer situation beyond repair?

  • The club clearly want him out the door.

  • This was just a shot across Jakes bow as a means of motivating him.

  • The club is clearly a rabble. Sack Macca!

  • This is just the first play in massive trade that we are not yet privy to.

  • This is a game of blink and Jake and Conners just blinked.

  • Its time to move on a negotiate the best deal we can.

  • I felt sad for Jake on that stage today.

  • We've warned you about creating polls Norm!

  • The Jack 'Armageddon option' Watts option


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*cough* Cam Rayner *cough*
Exactly my point. Supposed to be horrible in the beep test but plays midfield and is a jet in all levels.
Some people are just not good at the beep test. I know it can be used as a rough guide and you get an idea that some are good at it.
I know from another sport that my kids are involved in that beep tests are still used but yoyo tests are taking on more significance because it requires repeated efforts rather than a gradually faster and faster tempo. I read somewhere the AFL was looking to use the YoYo and phase out the Beep.
I believe Gary Ablett was terrible at the beep test also. No doubt his first couple of years he cruised but it proves that Beep tests are a subjective form of fitness monitoring.
 
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Yeah it is getting phased out, but the beep still tells you a fair bit. I have about 5 years worth of data from the draft combine and I can tell you no player in the vicinity of a level 10 beep has made it with the data I have. In fact, nearly all of them never lasted more then 2 years on an AFL list. Allirr Allirr is the best of the worst and he has an 11.10 beep test. It seems these days if your not getting near a level 12 beep test you're in a bit of trouble.
David Spriggs
 
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I believe Gary Ablett was terrible at the beep test also. No doubt his first couple of years he cruised but it proves that Beep tests are a subjective form of fitness monitoring.
Two points - I believe Ablett was called out by his teammates at Geelong for poor work ethic and training habits. He took the feedback on board and got much fitter and became a legend, rather than just a handy forward pocket. So his lack of fitness (as indicated by poor beep test) was holding him back.
Second, the beep testing isn't subjective, it is an objective measure. Maybe not the best or most accurate but still objective.
 

Super Hans

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On Ablett, am I the only one who finds it hilarious how people put out the like "he took the big money, now he has to earn it"? Before Macaffer stuffed his shoulder he was on track to win a third brownlow and his second at the suns.. he has well and truly earned his money.

Since the GC come into the comp what positives have they had? Ablett's brownlow... and Lynch/May. That's about it. The bloke gets such a bad wrap for someone clearly dealing with family issues.
 

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Exactly my point. Supposed to be horrible in the beep test but plays midfield and is a jet in all levels.
Some people are just not good at the beep test. I know it can be used as a rough guide and you get an idea that some are good at it.
I know from another sport that my kids are involved in that beep tests are still used but yoyo tests are taking on more significance because it requires repeated efforts rather than a gradually faster and faster tempo. I read somewhere the AFL was looking to use the YoYo and phase out the Beep.
I believe Gary Ablett was terrible at the beep test also. No doubt his first couple of years he cruised but it proves that Beep tests are a subjective form of fitness monitoring.
Cam Rayner is simply not "a jet in all levels". In fact, up until the U18 Champs he had underperformed. His school footy form has been underwhelming, and his TAC Cup form early did not show much midfield capacity. Even still, he doesn't have the aerobic capacity to play majority gametime in the midfield, which follows his poor beep test. I, personally, don't see him as a midfielder at all, not until he's spent at least 3-4 years increasing his endurance a lot, and consider him to be an excellent medium forward, but his questionable endurance is still concerning.

The beep test is still very reliable for determining players who have excellent fitness and who has poor endurance. For those in the middling, 13.1-14.5 levels it doesn't show much to separate them, but I do not agree that some people 'just can't do it'. That's a fallacy. Especially for AFL players, though some may not take to the harsh turns and gradually increasing tempo, there is no excuse for a player aspiring to play at the highest level to not at least record a 12.5.
 

Gollo

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Is Sam weiderman able to be pried free. Been in the VFL most of the year and Melbournes tall forward stocks look deep.

Worth a crack!
Sam Weideman is useless. Was never worth a top 10 pick. Fitness levels low and his athleticism is very questionable. Production at lower levels has been pretty poor. Wouldn't want us going anywhere near him, given he'd cost a bit.
 
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Cam Rayner is simply not "a jet in all levels". In fact, up until the U18 Champs he had underperformed. His school footy form has been underwhelming, and his TAC Cup form early did not show much midfield capacity. Even still, he doesn't have the aerobic capacity to play majority gametime in the midfield, which follows his poor beep test. I, personally, don't see him as a midfielder at all, not until he's spent at least 3-4 years increasing his endurance a lot, and consider him to be an excellent medium forward, but his questionable endurance is still concerning.

The beep test is still very reliable for determining players who have excellent fitness and who has poor endurance. For those in the middling, 13.1-14.5 levels it doesn't show much to separate them, but I do not agree that some people 'just can't do it'. That's a fallacy. Especially for AFL players, though some may not take to the harsh turns and gradually increasing tempo, there is no excuse for a player aspiring to play at the highest level to not at least record a 12.5.
Post more. Heaps more. You know stuff :thumbsu:
 

Yojimbo

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Cam Rayner is simply not "a jet in all levels". In fact, up until the U18 Champs he had underperformed. His school footy form has been underwhelming, and his TAC Cup form early did not show much midfield capacity. Even still, he doesn't have the aerobic capacity to play majority gametime in the midfield, which follows his poor beep test. I, personally, don't see him as a midfielder at all, not until he's spent at least 3-4 years increasing his endurance a lot, and consider him to be an excellent medium forward, but his questionable endurance is still concerning.

The beep test is still very reliable for determining players who have excellent fitness and who has poor endurance. For those in the middling, 13.1-14.5 levels it doesn't show much to separate them, but I do not agree that some people 'just can't do it'. That's a fallacy. Especially for AFL players, though some may not take to the harsh turns and gradually increasing tempo, there is no excuse for a player aspiring to play at the highest level to not at least record a 12.5.
So Rayner = Petracca which could = Dustin Martin.
Beep, Beep.
 

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Cam Rayner is simply not "a jet in all levels". In fact, up until the U18 Champs he had underperformed. His school footy form has been underwhelming, and his TAC Cup form early did not show much midfield capacity. Even still, he doesn't have the aerobic capacity to play majority gametime in the midfield, which follows his poor beep test. I, personally, don't see him as a midfielder at all, not until he's spent at least 3-4 years increasing his endurance a lot, and consider him to be an excellent medium forward, but his questionable endurance is still concerning.

The beep test is still very reliable for determining players who have excellent fitness and who has poor endurance. For those in the middling, 13.1-14.5 levels it doesn't show much to separate them, but I do not agree that some people 'just can't do it'. That's a fallacy. Especially for AFL players, though some may not take to the harsh turns and gradually increasing tempo, there is no excuse for a player aspiring to play at the highest level to not at least record a 12.5.
A lot of that sounds like an enigmatic forward we already have ;)
 

Super Hans

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I know he has had major knee injuries, but do people think Watts is a better player than Menzel? One is a FA and one has to be traded for.
 

Dogsman16

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I know he has had major knee injuries, but do people think Watts is a better player than Menzel? One is a FA and one has to be traded for.
Completely different style of player and I rate Menzel as a better player.

However one is quite durable the other isn't. I'd take Watts and the fact that he fills a position of need for those reasons.
 

threenewpadlocks

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It's my guess that we'll only take 2 players in this year's draft:

We have our 1st and 2nd, and North's 3rd, then effectively irrelevant 5th round picks afterwards

Bob and Murph retiring.

Morris, Honeychurch and Hamilton re-signed on one year deals (Honeychurch and Hamilton to one-year minimums to keep salary cap space open for Lever and to increase flexibility in 2018 off-season)
Mullenger-McHugh, Lynch, Prudden, Tweedie to all remain on the rookie list
Roarke Smith to be promoted onto the main list

One of Webb and Redpath to accept a better deal elsewhere for a late 2nd/early 3rd round pick

Our 1st, 2nd, and North's 3rd traded for Lever and Adelaide's 2nd.

That leaves us with two picks: Adelaide's 2nd and a whatever pick we get for Redpath/Webb

So effectively we'll have two picks in the 30's and Roarke Smith's promotion counting as our 3rd pick.

Then we'll have one 1st round pick in the rookie draft.
 

Dogsman16

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It's my guess that we'll only take 2 players in this year's draft:

We have our 1st and 2nd, and North's 3rd, then effectively irrelevant 5th round picks afterwards

Bob and Murph retiring.

Morris, Honeychurch and Hamilton re-signed on one year deals (Honeychurch and Hamilton to one-year minimums to keep salary cap space open for Lever and to increase flexibility in 2018 off-season)
Mullenger-McHugh, Lynch, Prudden, Tweedie to all remain on the rookie list
Roarke Smith to be promoted onto the main list

One of Webb and Redpath to accept a better deal elsewhere for a late 2nd/early 3rd round pick

Our 1st, 2nd, and North's 3rd traded for Lever and Adelaide's 2nd.

That leaves us with two picks: Adelaide's 2nd and a whatever pick we get for Redpath/Webb

So effectively we'll have two picks in the 30's and Roarke Smith's promotion counting as our 3rd pick.

Then we'll have one 1st round pick in the rookie draft.
Reckon we will get Lever? I'm not as confident!
 

threenewpadlocks

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Reckon we will get Lever? I'm not as confident!
A lot of it hinges on how teams strike out on other out-of-contract players. If Kelly, Hopper, Smith from GWS as well as whatever big named out of contract players there are, move to one of the various Melbourne teams, then they might have a bit less cap room to go hard after Lever. Similarly, if McGovern stays at Adelaide and they hold onto Cameron rather than him heading to Brisbane, Adelaide themselves might have less room to keep Lever. Could be a bit of a domino effect in that one.
 

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A lot of it hinges on how teams strike out on other out-of-contract players. If Kelly, Hopper, Smith from GWS as well as whatever big named out of contract players there are, move to one of the various Melbourne teams, then they might have a bit less cap room to go hard after Lever. Similarly, if McGovern stays at Adelaide and they hold onto Cameron rather than him heading to Brisbane, Adelaide themselves might have less room to keep Lever. Could be a bit of a domino effect in that one.
If Cameron ends up in Queensland, do one of the Queensland clubs become more open to losing a player to Victoria?
As far as I can tell GCS still have a couple of banked picks this year.
 

threenewpadlocks

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If Cameron ends up in Queensland, do one of the Queensland clubs become more open to losing a player to Victoria?
As far as I can tell GCS still have a couple of banked picks this year.
Who knows. A quick glance of both team's out of contract players suggests to me that most players of value are in-contract, but stranger things have happened.
 

Golden_6

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It's my guess that we'll only take 2 players in this year's draft:

We have our 1st and 2nd, and North's 3rd, then effectively irrelevant 5th round picks afterwards

Bob and Murph retiring.

Morris, Honeychurch and Hamilton re-signed on one year deals (Honeychurch and Hamilton to one-year minimums to keep salary cap space open for Lever and to increase flexibility in 2018 off-season)
Mullenger-McHugh, Lynch, Prudden, Tweedie to all remain on the rookie list
Roarke Smith to be promoted onto the main list

One of Webb and Redpath to accept a better deal elsewhere for a late 2nd/early 3rd round pick

Our 1st, 2nd, and North's 3rd traded for Lever and Adelaide's 2nd.

That leaves us with two picks: Adelaide's 2nd and a whatever pick we get for Redpath/Webb

So effectively we'll have two picks in the 30's and Roarke Smith's promotion counting as our 3rd pick.

Then we'll have one 1st round pick in the rookie draft.
We'll have really late picks still. I'd rather delist Hamilton and recruit a kid with a really late pick that will cost less salary but more of a chance to become an AFL player.
 

threenewpadlocks

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We'll have really late picks still. I'd rather delist Hamilton and recruit a kid with a really late pick that will cost less salary but more of a chance to become an AFL player.
I'd say Hamilton has a better chance of making a fist of an AFL career than any given player at the end of a supposed shallow draft. If we weren't challenging for a flag next year I'd agree with you, prioritise finding higher ceiling kids, but we're still in our premiership window.
 

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I'd say Hamilton has a better chance of making a fist of an AFL career than any given player at the end of a supposed shallow draft. If we weren't challenging for a flag next year I'd agree with you, prioritise finding higher ceiling kids, but we're still in our premiership window.
Can i please have the name of your supplier as he has the good
stuff.;)
 
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