Strategy Trade and List management Thread Part 2 (opposition supporters - READ posting rules before posting)

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Our extensive recent history of largely ignoring needs and drafting best available leads me to believe discussion around William's position is irrelevant to our likelihood of selecting him.
I suspect him knowing our system helps too. Were know he could play a rule if called upon, as opposed to people outside the system who may struggle to adjust.

I'd prefer we add talent forward of the ball but that seems unlikely, Williams and Dunkley are the two front-runners it seems.
 
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Is this dearth of KPPs really true? We have Schache and Boyd available in the Fwd. Young and Roberts in Def. Moz to come back. A rookie KPP unlikely to be ahead of these guys.
For KPDs, we currently have:
  • Trengove (a ruck)
  • Cordy (natural position, but not number 1 defender)
  • Moz (surely retires this year or next)
  • Young (still very raw and struggles to perform at AFL level)
  • Roberts (probably gets delisted this year)
So our KPD stocks are very thin already, with at least 1 of these guys gone end of this year, if not 2 or 3.

For KPFs, we have:
  • Naughton
  • Bont (more of a midfielder, but I'll count him here)
  • Schache (dropped for poor form, has no aggression)
  • Boyd (injury problems put huge question marks over him, plus he seems to be more of a ruck)
That's 2 very good players, and 2 who may never make it into a permanent spot on the 22. Very thin here

For rucks, we have:
  • English (yet to re-sign past 2020 and Eagles want him bad)
  • Sweet (hasn't played a senior game yet)
  • Young (I'll count him here too since he's been playing VFL as ruck lately)
  • Trengove (more likely plays defence so long as our KPD stocks are this thin)

Most lists have far more depth at each area of the ground, and are struggling to fit people in. Eagles have at least 4 very good key defenders, plus multiple decent depth players. They have one of the best KPF duos, along with Allen, Waterman and Brander working their way into the side. Compare that to our situation on either end of the ground, where we had to play Wood as a KPD, and are still playing our best mid as a full forward.

We have desperate need for a solid KPD, especially since Lewis Young seems more likely to move up forward and pinch hit in the ruck if his recent VFL games are any indication
 

doggies ftw

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For KPDs, we currently have:
  • Trengove (a ruck)
  • Cordy (natural position, but not number 1 defender)
  • Moz (surely retires this year or next)
  • Young (still very raw and struggles to perform at AFL level)
  • Roberts (probably gets delisted this year)
So our KPD stocks are very thin already, with at least 1 of these guys gone end of this year, if not 2 or 3.

For KPFs, we have:
  • Naughton
  • Bont (more of a midfielder, but I'll count him here)
  • Schache (dropped for poor form, has no aggression)
  • Boyd (injury problems put huge question marks over him, plus he seems to be more of a ruck)
That's 2 very good players, and 2 who may never make it into a permanent spot on the 22. Very thin here

For rucks, we have:
  • English (yet to re-sign past 2020 and Eagles want him bad)
  • Sweet (hasn't played a senior game yet)
  • Young (I'll count him here too since he's been playing VFL as ruck lately)
  • Trengove (more likely plays defence so long as our KPD stocks are this thin)

Most lists have far more depth at each area of the ground, and are struggling to fit people in. Eagles have at least 4 very good key defenders, plus multiple decent depth players. They have one of the best KPF duos, along with Allen, Waterman and Brander working their way into the side. Compare that to our situation on either end of the ground, where we had to play Wood as a KPD, and are still playing our best mid as a full forward.

We have desperate need for a solid KPD, especially since Lewis Young seems more likely to move up forward and pinch hit in the ruck if his recent VFL games are any indication
Agree we need another good defender on the list, are we gonna be able to fill that in the midseason draft though? I doubt it. I cant see Gardner playing games this year so whats the point. Someone like that small forward from coburg possibly could. By all means if weve got our eye on a good key defender that could play a role long term go for it. If not reassess end of year.
 
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Agree we need another good defender on the list, are we gonna be able to fill that in the midseason draft though? I doubt it. I cant see Gardner playing games this year so whats the point. Someone like that small forward from coburg possibly could. By all means if weve got our eye on a good key defender that could play a role long term go for it. If not reassess end of year.
Yeah I'm usually the type who wants to draft for needs, but I don't really see any capable KPDs in the state leagues who would play immediately. In that case, I'd rather take best available.

The small forward from Coburg is Sam Lowson, but I don't imagine Carlton passes on him at Pick 1 considering their need for a small forward. Would love to get him, but I doubt he lasts past the first few picks.

I've previously been against it, but Kyle Dunkley played forward on the weekend for Footscray and kicked 3 goals. Could be a decent pressure forward option for us, as his kicking is apparently a lot better than Josh. He probably gets taken too though
 

dogwatch

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What's the feeling? Are we going to draft for 2019 or for the long term?

I'd certainly be drafting for the long term even though the MSD (27 May) is supposedly to help cover unexpected problems in midyear eg retirements and LTIs. My view might change if we really do look like mounting a challenge for the finals, but we'd need to be at least 5-5 at the time of the draft, i.e. win against either or both Geelong and Norf AND we lose somebody important with an LTI.

I think most clubs will be looking at it long term, rather than with an eye on 2019. I'm interested in knowing whether the Dogs will be too.
 

doggiesmrx

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Is this dearth of KPPs really true? We have Schache and Boyd available in the Fwd. Young and Roberts in Def. Moz to come back. A rookie KPP unlikely to be ahead of these guys.
Not the death. Boyd has missed the whole pre season and isn’t fit for senior footy yet. So unavailable. Schache had a spot and lost it due to two soft as butter weeks. Now needs to go back and perform in the VFL. Depends what we do at the end of the season. Does the club have faith in Schache and Boyd long term? thats the key question. If not, then move one on and get another tall in.

Backline talls we probably have enough depth when Moz returns but even still, we can’t rely on Moz anymore.
 

doggiesmrx

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Is this dearth of KPPs really true? We have Schache and Boyd available in the Fwd. Young and Roberts in Def. Moz to come back. A rookie KPP unlikely to be ahead of these guys.
Not the death. Boyd has missed the whole pre season and isn’t fit for senior footy yet. So unavailable. Schache had a spot and lost it due to two soft as butter weeks. Now needs to go back and perform in the VFL. Depends what we do at the end of the season. Does the club have faith in Schache and Boyd long term? thats the key question. If not, then move one on and get another tall in.

Backline talls we probably have enough depth when Moz returns but even still, we can’t rely on Moz anymore.
 

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What's the feeling? Are we going to draft for 2019 or for the long term?
We don't have pick 1 so we can plan all we want and BAM someone else sweeps in, Carlton have looked at
Lowson and Hirst (Wizards boy), North at Tipungwuti, Essendon at a ruck back up and Dunkley is on a few
radars, we are mid table fodder who may get the scraps from the table. I have been through the list many
times plenty of interesting choices at both ends of the age spectrum.
 

dogwatch

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We don't have pick 1 so we can plan all we want and BAM someone else sweeps in, Carlton have looked at
Lowson and Hirst (Wizards boy), North at Tipungwuti, Essendon at a ruck back up and Dunkley is on a few
radars, we are mid table fodder who may get the scraps from the table. I have been through the list many
times plenty of interesting choices at both ends of the age spectrum.
All well and good but doesn't address my question. Are we thinking short term or long term?
My assumption is the club is playing it close to its chest and nobody knows.

Just thought I'd ask because it might change how the club assesses the prospects.
 

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Fair enough - doubt whether any of those would make an significant impact this year anyway.
Gardner might as KPD cover or even as a KPF, has played ok at both ends at VFL level. He's 22 so a mature body and 198cm so has the height to compete. I'm really mystified why he played on Shoenmakers rather than Roughy on the weekend though.
 

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Gardner might as KPD cover or even as a KPF, has played ok at both ends at VFL level. He's 22 so a mature body and 198cm so has the height to compete. I'm really mystified why he played on Shoenmakers rather than Roughy on the weekend though.
Hiding his light under a bushel before the draft?
 
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Hiding his light under a bushel before the draft?
Not sure it would help, Hawthorn flagged an interest weeks ago. Talls are in demand although the Hawks do have Mirra and Shoey playing VFL so have more depth than us. On needs I would have thought they need another mid.
 

Yojimbo

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All well and good but doesn't address my question. Are we thinking short term or long term?
My assumption is the club is playing it close to its chest and nobody knows.

Just thought I'd ask because it might change how the club assesses the prospects.
We are talking about players who were deemed not good enough to draft or rookie, but may have shined since
and grabbed the recruiters attention. It depends very much on the club and who is available at their pick and
what state their list is in at the time re injuries and holes to fill. I think the long or short term is up to the
player and opportunity, you just don't pluck a duck and whack him in the ones.
 

House_of_Dahl

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For KPDs, we currently have:
  • Trengove (a ruck)
  • Cordy (natural position, but not number 1 defender)
  • Moz (surely retires this year or next)
  • Young (still very raw and struggles to perform at AFL level)
  • Roberts (probably gets delisted this year)
So our KPD stocks are very thin already, with at least 1 of these guys gone end of this year, if not 2 or 3.

For KPFs, we have:
  • Naughton
  • Bont (more of a midfielder, but I'll count him here)
  • Schache (dropped for poor form, has no aggression)
  • Boyd (injury problems put huge question marks over him, plus he seems to be more of a ruck)
That's 2 very good players, and 2 who may never make it into a permanent spot on the 22. Very thin here

For rucks, we have:
  • English (yet to re-sign past 2020 and Eagles want him bad)
  • Sweet (hasn't played a senior game yet)
  • Young (I'll count him here too since he's been playing VFL as ruck lately)
  • Trengove (more likely plays defence so long as our KPD stocks are this thin)

Most lists have far more depth at each area of the ground, and are struggling to fit people in. Eagles have at least 4 very good key defenders, plus multiple decent depth players. They have one of the best KPF duos, along with Allen, Waterman and Brander working their way into the side. Compare that to our situation on either end of the ground, where we had to play Wood as a KPD, and are still playing our best mid as a full forward.

We have desperate need for a solid KPD, especially since Lewis Young seems more likely to move up forward and pinch hit in the ruck if his recent VFL games are any indication
Fair enough, particularly with news just in on Boyd, but what mid season rookie is going to play before who is already on our list.
 

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With Toyd retiring from the game, hello cap space.

Who do we line up then? Jeremy Cameron?
He’s completely left TWO YEARS of cap space. That’s huge. He could’ve been a prick like Tippett, but he’s done us a solid and we can have a massive crack at a good alternative now.
 
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Tragic about Boyd retiring, but on the topic of list management, this is enormous for us. We already would have been looking at a comfortable bit of room in the cap next year, but freeing up the extra ~$1 million per year over the next two seasons, along with whatever we have been offering to guys like Hurley, Wingard, etc. could mean a massive off-season.

We are likely looking at close to $2 million in flexible cap space. If Astbury is open to moving, we easily fit him along with a massive target. Casual $1 million+ to Jeremy Cameron, and give GWS our 2019 and 2020 1st rounders?
 
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Tragic about Boyd retiring, but on the topic of list management, this is enormous for us. We already would have been looking at a comfortable bit of room in the cap next year, but freeing up the extra ~$1 million per year over the next two seasons, along with whatever we have been offering to guys like Hurley, Wingard, etc. could mean a massive off-season.

We are likely looking at close to $2 million in flexible cap space. If Astbury is open to moving, we easily fit him along with a massive target. Casual $1 million+ to Jeremy Cameron, and give GWS our 2019 and 2020 1st rounders?
Big deal to Tim English, and perhaps this is an extension of the rumours on the Carlton board about us targetting one of their young talls?

We have both the picks and the cap space.

Really hoping we get Gardner at the mid-season draft now, along with one other pick.
 
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Big deal to Tim English, and perhaps this is an extension of the rumours on the Carlton board about us targetting one of their young talls?

We have both the picks and the cap space.

Really hoping we get Gardner at the mid-season draft now, along with one other pick.
I don't think I could handle the hype if we managed to poach Harry McKay. We'd have the two best contested marks in the entire AFL in our forward line. Bit different to the Boyd/Schache combo we've been dreaming of, but arguably even better.

English receiving a big contract is basically a given now, provided he wants to stay. He is living with Naughton and has a girlfriend in Vic, plus the promise of being our number 1 ruck for the next decade. Really hope he signs on sooner rather than later
 
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