Strategy Trade and List management Thread Part 2 (opposition supporters - READ posting rules before posting)

[Northernsoul74]

I'd be happy to trade down a bit for both of them and hope Elijah Taylor is available at our pick. Would be perfect for us.

I think I read that Elijah Taylor really struggles with homesickness. Even a couple of days down in Perth for footy camps are an effort.

 

[footyfan000001]

Is Bruce seen as our Tom Boyd replacement?

Pinch hits in the ruck etc

Yes

 

[Testekill]

Carlton are still pushing for papley apparently. How the hell do they have this much pull when theyre a miserable rabble?

Why arent we linked?

Brown baggers

 

[House_of_Dahl]

Is Bruce seen as our Tom Boyd replacement?

Pinch hits in the ruck etc

Funny they even look similar - hair and size

 

[dogwatch]

Bearing in mind the historical difficulty that clubs like ours have had in obtaining top line trades. Why do you think this is?

The big and historically successful clubs have an undoubted pull. They offer:

• huge crowds at every game
• blockbusters (we don't get any)
• more FTA coverage of games
• more media coverage
• more games at the MCG
• glamour - however you want to define that - maybe it's just that having made the list of a "big" club is evidence to friends, family and admirers that you've made it as a footy player. Not something I can imagine people saying about making the list at Norf, St Kilda or WB who are all on equalisation payments from the AFL.
• inevitable success - yes, I know Carlton and Essendon have been in the wilderness for 15 years so it doesn't seem logical but look at the list of premiers for those last 15 years. Mostly Hawthorn, Geelong, Sydney and West Coast. Throw in the odd flag from Collingwood and Richmond as well. The only minnows were Port in 2004 and us in 2016, both unexpected and both ephemeral. So the point is not that Essendon or Carlton are losers (for now) but that the minnows are almost never winners (us, St Kilda, Norf, Melbourne, Freo, Port, GCS, Melbourne)
• stability - Essendon's drug catastrophe aside, you know that those clubs will be around forever and there won't be existential distractions. Meanwhile we have fought off 2-3 survival crises in the last 30 years. St Kilda are rumoured to be in big financial trouble. People keep suggesting Norf will end up in Tasmania (probably only a joke but even that hurts).
• clout with the AFL - in general smaller clubs have had fairly tough treatment from the AFL, from fixturing to relocations, etc. Bigger clubs are better connected and harder to push around. It'd be good to be at a club like that.
• quality training facilities and off-field support (docs, physios, conditioning, shrinks, surgeons, etc) - we are probably up there close to the big clubs but it's still a perception thing. GCS facilities are supposed to be poor from what I've read. Don't know about the other smaller clubs.

EDIT: I forgot one: brown baggers (thanks for the reminder Testekill !) and coterie groups can help ease the difficult times for a player having to change clubs and move to another state.

 

[stefoid]

I'd be happy to trade down a bit for both of them and hope Elijah Taylor is available at our pick. Would be perfect for us.

IF its that kind of draft, a scattergun approach can make sense, particularly when we have a lot of list spots to fill.

 

[ossie_21]

 

[Walsh Bay]

Anecdotally, a big factor in players selecting between clubs is getting to play in front of massive crowds, and at big stadia (i.e. the MCG).

Apparently this line of persuasion works very well with the players themselves (less so with their partners and managers!)

 

[Munnez]

With Martin off the table can anyone see a way we keep 12 and still get Bruce and Keath? The draft does have a few good small/mid forwards with a bit of X factor. Could see McAsey still being there as a tall and Jackson is an interesting proposition.

If we could turn the 3 thirds into an early second might be some chance. Unless Saints or Crows want a future pick 2020 2nd for either Keath or Bruce

 

[godoggies15]

No Cookies | Herald Sun

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www.heraldsun.com.au

Sam Landsberger, Jon Ralph and Jay Clark, Herald Sun

|
Why Bulldogs are struggling to recruit Indigenous players
Western Bulldogs have struck out on another indigenous player with unfulfilled talent Jack Martin set to join Carlton.
The Bulldogs tabled Martin the most generous offer — as much as $700,000 per season for five years — but the outside ball winner has rejected overtures from Whitten Oval and Fremantle, leaving the Blues in pole position to strike a trade.

Martin, 24, will still earn a long-term deal at the Blues but will play for less cash, joining indigenous players Sam Petrevski-Seton and former Dog Liam Jones.

It is the third time in as many years that the Dogs have failed to recruit an indigenous talent, largely because they do not have any indigenous players on their list.

In 2017 they heavily pursued Port Adelaide utility Jarman Impey, who dined with Bulldog leaders including Marcus Bontempelli at Crown Casino as he mulled their contract offer.

Impey’s close friend, Jackson Trengove, had signed at the Dogs as a free agent in recent weeks and was pushing Impey to join him.

But when Impey learned that there weren’t any indigenous players at the Bulldogs he instead accepted Hawthorn’s offer, where he played alongside superstars Cyril Rioli and Shaun Burgoyne. The following year Chad Wingard was choosing between the Dogs and Hawks, but with Impey at Waverley Park and still no indigenous stars at the Dogs, the dual All-Australian picked Hawthorn.

Dogs president Peter Gordon has conceded that the club’s lack of indigenous players was likely to have dented their hopes of landing Wingard.

But the Bulldogs boast an elite welfare system and recently had Brett Goodes helping drive the change as the club’s indigenous liason officer.

“We can’t solve that problem overnight and we have tried to take a multi-faceted approach to it,” Gordon said recently.

“We might potentially draft two or three (indigenous players) in any particular year and they will be a part of a sea change of the history and culture of the club.

The Bulldogs have priority access to indigenous teenage sensation Jamarra Ugle-Hagan through their academy and are keen to draft the key forward in 2020.

Missing out on Martin will only strengthen the Dogs’ chances of securing bookends Josh Bruce (St Kilda) and Alex Keath (Adelaide).

The Dogs boast a war chest and Bruce appears certain to cross on a long-term deal, possibly in exchange for a second-round pick.

Martin played with Carlton captain and former WA junior Patrick Cripps as a junior and feels he could easily feel at home at the Blues.

The pair played in the Under-15 schoolboys together with Martin at boarding school in Geraldton, 30 minutes away from Cripps’ home town of Northampton.

It is another sign of Cripps’ powerful stature as Carlton’s co-captain when players like Martin are keen to be in his orbit.

Gold Coast will request a first-round pick from the Blues, who could need pick 8 to get Tom Papley.

 

[Northernsoul74]

No Cookies | Herald Sun

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www.heraldsun.com.au

Why Bulldogs are struggling to recruit Indigenous players

Paywall.

 

[The Slitherin' Snake]

No Cookies | Herald Sun

No Cookies

www.heraldsun.com.au

Sam Landsberger, Jon Ralph and Jay Clark, Herald Sun

|
Why Bulldogs are struggling to recruit Indigenous players
Western Bulldogs have struck out on another indigenous player with unfulfilled talent Jack Martin set to join Carlton.
The Bulldogs tabled Martin the most generous offer — as much as $700,000 per season for five years — but the outside ball winner has rejected overtures from Whitten Oval and Fremantle, leaving the Blues in pole position to strike a trade.

Martin, 24, will still earn a long-term deal at the Blues but will play for less cash, joining indigenous players Sam Petrevski-Seton and former Dog Liam Jones.

It is the third time in as many years that the Dogs have failed to recruit an indigenous talent, largely because they do not have any indigenous players on their list.

In 2017 they heavily pursued Port Adelaide utility Jarman Impey, who dined with Bulldog leaders including Marcus Bontempelli at Crown Casino as he mulled their contract offer.

Impey’s close friend, Jackson Trengove, had signed at the Dogs as a free agent in recent weeks and was pushing Impey to join him.

But when Impey learned that there weren’t any indigenous players at the Bulldogs he instead accepted Hawthorn’s offer, where he played alongside superstars Cyril Rioli and Shaun Burgoyne. The following year Chad Wingard was choosing between the Dogs and Hawks, but with Impey at Waverley Park and still no indigenous stars at the Dogs, the dual All-Australian picked Hawthorn.

Dogs president Peter Gordon has conceded that the club’s lack of indigenous players was likely to have dented their hopes of landing Wingard.

But the Bulldogs boast an elite welfare system and recently had Brett Goodes helping drive the change as the club’s indigenous liason officer.

“We can’t solve that problem overnight and we have tried to take a multi-faceted approach to it,” Gordon said recently.

“We might potentially draft two or three (indigenous players) in any particular year and they will be a part of a sea change of the history and culture of the club.

The Bulldogs have priority access to indigenous teenage sensation Jamarra Ugle-Hagan through their academy and are keen to draft the key forward in 2020.

Missing out on Martin will only strengthen the Dogs’ chances of securing bookends Josh Bruce (St Kilda) and Alex Keath (Adelaide).

The Dogs boast a war chest and Bruce appears certain to cross on a long-term deal, possibly in exchange for a second-round pick.

Martin played with Carlton captain and former WA junior Patrick Cripps as a junior and feels he could easily feel at home at the Blues.

The pair played in the Under-15 schoolboys together with Martin at boarding school in Geraldton, 30 minutes away from Cripps’ home town of Northampton.

It is another sign of Cripps’ powerful stature as Carlton’s co-captain when players like Martin are keen to be in his orbit.

Gold Coast will request a first-round pick from the Blues, who could need pick 8 to get Tom Papley.

Given this has come from Landsberger, it would be pretty accurate and something the club wants to make known to the market

 

[VitalDread]

There is a lot of indigenous players that are drafted late in the draft. This is where we should be looking at acquiring indigenous players (which it seems is a priority).

Let’s not overpay for them purely for this program we are trying to develop.

Its more relating too Dogs wants a existing well known player to take us forward in our indigenous programs

Help set the foundation's for future players

 

[Scragger77]

Its more relating too Dogs wants a existing well known player to take us forward in our indigenous programs

Help set the foundation's for future players

Well should we make a play at Eddie Betts on a one year deal with a post career role?

 

[mattwa]

Wouldnt say no to one year of Eddie but cant see him coming to the club

 

[Snarls Barkley]

If we could turn the 3 thirds into an early second might be some chance. Unless Saints or Crows want a future pick 2020 2nd for either Keath or Bruce

41 + 46 + 48 = 17 on the draft pick calculator.

Not sure who needs the points though, so this option may not be viable. GWS will have to match an early bid for Green so those picks won’t be useful to them.

 

[SteelF6]

Dam 700k is alot to throw at unfulfilled talent, should just add the extra 200k and get Hill.

 

[Virgin Dog]

41 + 46 + 48 = 17 on the draft pick calculator.

Not sure who needs the points though, so this option may not be viable. GWS will have to match an early bid for Green so those picks won’t be useful to them.

When trading on the basis of a team needing points for bid matching, you usually lose a huge amount of pick value in the process. Don't think there's really anyone suitable to trade those 3rds with this year. The main clubs with NGA/FS kids are GC (Budarick), Hawthorn (Maginness) and GWS (Green). None of them have picks in the early 20s, which is what those 3rds would likely get us usually.

We might be able to trade with Freo for their Pick 24, since they don't have a 3rd or 4th round pick this year so might want to spread their picks a little. That Pick 24 is still not quite enough to trade for Bruce, but would go a long way towards avoiding paying our 1st (even though I do think we will end up having to hand it over as part of the trade)

 

[Virgin Dog]

Dam 700k is alot to throw at unfulfilled talent, should just add the extra 200k and get Hill.

Pretty much. If Martin was going to cost us 700k, I'd rather spend the extra 200k on bringing in the AFL's best winger. There are plenty of other players we could overpay for that would fill a bigger need

 

[0utsider]

41 + 46 + 48 = 17 on the draft pick calculator.

Not sure who needs the points though, so this option may not be viable. GWS will have to match an early bid for Green so those picks won’t be useful to them.

Not early 2nd but Hawks have 28 and their FS McGuinness will definitely be taken before that. Could give them 41 + 46 (743 points) for 28 (677).

 

[Hobdog]

Any mail floating around?


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[True Dog]

Pretty much. If Martin was going to cost us 700k, I'd rather spend the extra 200k on bringing in the AFL's best winger. There are plenty of other players we could overpay for that would fill a bigger need

Maybe getting Hill would jeopardize our chances get Bruce? Just spitballing

 

[ossie_21]

The missing out due to "no indigenous players" is similar to the job market. Wanted - recent graduate, must have 15 years of business management experience. Skin colour shouldn't really matter, whoever we bring to the club needs to bring something we need as well & play their role. Surely there is an AFL experienced player or two we can look at on the cheap? It sucks that injuries have taken their toll, but based on our needs Jeff Garlett on a cheap deal will bring experience & forward pressure for us. Gotta start somewhere!

Give it a few years until all of them want to play with Marra.

 

[BallaratBulldog]

Is it true that exit/end of season meetings are today?

 

[Dog 36]

Is it true that exit/end of season meetings are today?

Not sure but if so they have provided some news and angst as word has dripped out of the happenings during and as a result of these meetings especially last couple of years.