Strategy Trade and List management Thread Part 2 (opposition supporters - READ posting rules before posting)

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HARKER

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Whether you like martin or not, please don’t fret about the money side of things this off-season.
We’re scrambling to hit the AFL salary cap floor......again. Let alone hitting the cap. Let alone hitting the 105% we’re allowed to hit.
We haven’t lost anyone we’ve wanted to keep.
It’s use-it-or-lose-it time with our cap room. We either go into 2020 spending way less than everyone else, or we “overpay” to add to our talent now.
Let’s push our chips into the middle of the table and try and win the thing in 2020.
Taking out a situation where Martin may end up at Carlton....That doesn't matter for this discussion.

I fail to understand why The Bulldogs would be courting Martin.
Carlton has gaping holes in their forward line and for good users entering the forward 50, but I don't see that as being a particular issue with The Dogs.

Of course you know your team better than I do, but it always seems to me that some quality talls may add more value to your whole than for more flankers.
Keath & Bruce sounds like a great start point and then you have the whole trade period to design other interesting possibilities. If I was a Dogs supporter, I don't think that should you miss on Martin (nothing is done, until it's done) that you've missed a key ingredient in the puzzle.
 

TiAn_

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I like Hugh Greenwood. I think he could be a serviceable forward, adds defensive pressure we don’t get from our other forwards, he can give Dunkley and Bont support in the guts or a rotation forward without sacrificing our contested game and he’s the right size and age. He would give us a bit more of a hard athletic edge.

Probably an unpopular opinion, but he’s one of the lesser lights that appeal to me.

Looks destined to end up at the Hawks though, and I think he will be a really good get for them.
 

Virgin Dog

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Taking out a situation where Martin may end up at Carlton....That doesn't matter for this discussion.

I fail to understand why The Bulldogs would be courting Martin.
Carlton has gaping holes in their forward line and for good users entering the forward 50, but I don't see that as being a particular issue with The Dogs.

Of course you know your team better than I do, but it always seems to me that some quality talls may add more value to your whole than for more flankers.
Keath & Bruce sounds like a great start point and then you have the whole trade period to design other interesting possibilities. If I was a Dogs supporter, I don't think that should you miss on Martin (nothing is done, until it's done) that you've missed a key ingredient in the puzzle.
You're not wrong. Martin would be useful (our forward entries were woeful for much of the year, but it improved as the year went on) but ultimately, we have far bigger need for bookends, and a crumbing small if anything, which Martin isn't really. Would've been a decent pickup, but possibly not worth the money we were reportedly offering as he wouldn't improve the side enough to justify the wage. Better fit for Carlton, and probably best for everyone that we ended up missing out
 

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Boyd oh Boyd

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Taking out a situation where Martin may end up at Carlton....That doesn't matter for this discussion.

I fail to understand why The Bulldogs would be courting Martin.
Carlton has gaping holes in their forward line and for good users entering the forward 50, but I don't see that as being a particular issue with The Dogs.

Of course you know your team better than I do, but it always seems to me that some quality talls may add more value to your whole than for more flankers.
Keath & Bruce sounds like a great start point and then you have the whole trade period to design other interesting possibilities. If I was a Dogs supporter, I don't think that should you miss on Martin (nothing is done, until it's done) that you've missed a key ingredient in the puzzle.
We managed to have a good run of goals but the depth is thread bare (VFL kicked 4.17 on the weekend) and very one paced. For a large part of the season we had one of the best inside 50 differentials and either the lowest or second lowest conversion inside 50. All of our talls are young and with luck will be around for a while. Dickson is near the end and Lloyd is approaching 30. McLean and West are stopgap mids and probably don't have a future as permanent forwards.

We're lucky that with Bailey Dale's recent form it's gone from 'urgent' to 'pressing' but it's still a gaping hole on our list.
 

Deadly Dunkley

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Taking out a situation where Martin may end up at Carlton....That doesn't matter for this discussion.

I fail to understand why The Bulldogs would be courting Martin.
Carlton has gaping holes in their forward line and for good users entering the forward 50, but I don't see that as being a particular issue with The Dogs.

Of course you know your team better than I do, but it always seems to me that some quality talls may add more value to your whole than for more flankers.
Keath & Bruce sounds like a great start point and then you have the whole trade period to design other interesting possibilities. If I was a Dogs supporter, I don't think that should you miss on Martin (nothing is done, until it's done) that you've missed a key ingredient in the puzzle.
Think our club executives would be far more disappointed than anyone on here. We really wanted Martin in the 2012 period and I’d say that keenness hung around all the way along. I think he’ll do well at Carlton and would agree we are better served spending on talls. I’d happily trade every decent pick we have this year to get quality 25 + year olds in any position once we lock Bruce down and exhaust all tall defender options we can. Hurley would be perfect and I hope we throw a million at him and take the risk. The dons can also have any picks under round 5 they want if we can dig him out of there bar what we spend on Bruce. We have great kids from the last few years and good kids coming for the next 2. The last thing we need is another 2 or 3 18 year olds who probably won’t get a game and might bugger off in 2 years because of it or will make our team even younger and postpone our window.

Trade you doggies, trade your arses off. Hope our 1st pick isn’t until around 70 and we take 3 VFL players.
 

dergert

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Jun 17, 2014
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Sam lloyd is the wrong side of 20.

We need someone to replace him over the next few years. We need someone to compliment him next year.
 

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Norm De Guerre

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There’s probably no short answer. You’re right, historically we have had difficulties. I’d say it’s a combination of lack of success, perceived to be a small club, not glamorous, average training facilities, no MCG pull, stereotype of the west etc. In regards to Martin/Wingard in recent times I have no doubt our poor record with indigenous players is a major factor.
A lot of these things will take time to change if ever.
I don’t have the answer but we might have to get creative around who we target. Young players desperate for an opportunity/get out of where they are now, continue targeting the money ball types like Lloyd/Crozier, identify specific personality types early that want this sort of challenge or their values align with ours.
This is the point I have been trying to make. The club is clearly aware of and is trying to address its failings when it comes to indigenous players in particular. However, real or otherwise its not any easy task to turn around peoples perceptions of the club that are by now well entrenched across the football landscape, be it players, the games administrators, the agenda setting media or society in general. If getting high profile recruits into the club is deemed to be important, we need to land an era of sustained success and not stumble as badly as we did post 2016 as we will be forever fighting against our own past when it comes to landing a white whale into the club.

Personally I've never really placed much store in the white whale style of list management. Im happy enough to have a competent list manager who continues to use the draft astutely and to pick up mid-range or under utilised players from other clubs to fill roles like alegedly are with the likes of Bruce, Keath and the miss of Martin. Im sure that there will be others before trade week(s) is done.
 

paulveed

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If all Hurley cost was cap space and a late pick, picking up him and Bruce would be amazing. Makes us instantly competitive for the next 2-3 years, gives Lewis Young a bit more time to add some size without having too much pressure on his shoulders, and means we won't be pushed around like we were on the weekend.

Would've been nice to get Hurley all those years ago, but never too late. He turns 30 next year, so should still have another 3 years of good footy left in him at least.
Nah, dealing with Dodo is impossible. He would demand 3 first rounders for their boot studder's assistant. Forget it.
 

ossie_21

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Whilst we want to attract indigenous talent, all I ask is apart from Brad Hill (who is more likely to accept the highest bidder, regardless who it is), who is out there that would make us comprehensively better & is available?

I would have liked Martin, but at the right price & not put him in top 10% of earners when he hasn’t proven anything.
 

footscray1973

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However, real or otherwise its not any easy task to turn around peoples perceptions of the club that are by now well entrenched across the football landscape...
What exactly do you think is well-entrenched Norm?

The only perception I see is that we don’t currently have any indigenous players. I doubt there is a perception in the wider football community that we are a bad destination for them. And 1 or 2 good players can potentially turn that around relatively quickly. IMO it’s a moment in history, not an era.
 

Lex22

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Not sure why dogs are not linked with Ellis-Yoleman. Would cost nothing but cap and can help with lack of indigenous players. Might be a decent wing forward too.

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He’s ordinary IMO and even structurally, I don’t see where he’d possibly fit in.

Bit of a nothing sort of player. Too slow and lacks the tank to play on ball and has very little forward craft. Also 2-3 inches too short for key position if we’re looking just to plug a hole. Greenwood is similar from the Crows.

Big pass.
 

Norm De Guerre

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What exactly do you think is well-entrenched Norm?

The only perception I see is that we don’t currently have any indigenous players. I doubt there is a perception in the wider football community that we are a bad destination for them. And 1 or 2 good players can potentially turn that around relatively quickly. IMO it’s a moment in history, not an era.
The oft quoted notion that players prefer to play for a big club in front of big crowds. It comes up every time that a player moves from a feeder club like GWS, Gold Coast or Adelaide to the likes of Richmond, Collingwood, Hawthorn or any number of others.
 

bobs head soup

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Nah, dealing with Dodo is impossible. He would demand 3 first rounders for their boot studder's assistant. Forget it.
Dodo is a mirage, he's awesome to deal with. 2nd rounder for a clearly shot Cooney, 2 picks in the 20s for a fat, lazy, self absorbed culture wrecker like Stringer. Love it.
 

footscray1973

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The oft quoted notion that players prefer to play for a big club in front of big crowds. It comes up every time that a player moves from a feeder club like GWS, Gold Coast or Adelaide to the likes of Richmond, Collingwood, Hawthorn or any number of others.
That’s a wider issue than just our inability to attract indigenous players though, I thought you were referring specifically to them?
 

Norm De Guerre

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That’s a wider issue than just our inability to attract indigenous players though, I thought you were referring specifically to them?
Yes it is and no I wasn't. I have my own views on the matter, but Im interested in hearing others when the discussion turns to our historical inability to bring top line talent to the club (indigenous or otherwise) when a player apparently chooses another club over ours.
 

Dry Rot

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Have heard from a very good source who I will not name that our club is not favourably viewed by indigenous players.

I wonder if we have skeleton in our cupboard that we fans do not know about?
 
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