Strategy Trade and List management Thread Part 2 (opposition supporters - READ posting rules before posting)

W W Biscuit

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Apr 22, 2004
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s**t! https://www.smh.com.au/sport/brown-slams-sherman-for-afl-racial-abuse-20110630-1gs7k.html

We're still tarred with that brush? It ws 8 years ago, although someone else mentioned that Hill copped something at the Dogs.

No wonder indigenous players do not want to play for us. I wouldn't.
I suspect that Hill copped some flak because he was lethargic and sometimes perceived as not trying. When the much-respected and hardly-outspoken Chris Grant says that you should never represent the club again, you know you've got problems.
 

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ScragCity

Norm Smith Medallist
Sep 7, 2015
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So given all this, are you really surprised that we missed out on star indigenous players coming to us 3 years in a row?

It's probably worth it to get someone like Betts or Bourgoyne, but not if our fans racially abuse them.

Maybe Jamarra will leave us after 2 years...
We should pay Neville Jetta two mil a year and make him Captain/Coach.
 

Mattdougie

Brownlow Medallist
Jun 29, 2013
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Liam Jones is at Carlton, didn’t leave the club on good terms, and was subjected to some racist taunts from fans. On the other hand Marngrook footy show has two hosts who are Bulldog fans in Leila and Grant.

Yeah nah wrong

Sorry I know Liam and he left for one reason and one reason only, Macca.

And I can’t speak for Magic and Josh Hill but I think you are talking out your butt with this one sorry.

I have never heard Mag speak of leaving the dogs due to racism and I’ve sat in several of his multicultural youth talks where he is very honest about his experience with racism in and out of footy.

Like every other label it’s incredibly easy to throw out there but unfortunately we have had several indigenous players over the last 20-30 years and the biggest issue is they have mainly been sh!t on field so most haven’t had a choice to leave.
 
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True Dog

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Sep 27, 2011
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I think the club is putting in the important support pieces to turn around our poor indigenous perception. I still would like on field support for our future draftees but confident it will come.
 

Islanddoggy

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Mar 17, 2018
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List management discussion of our list.
 

Mantis Toboggan

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I’ve been thinking about this for a couple of days now. Why exactly do we want to land an indigenous star? Is it simply to lure others? Or to change the perception of the club? I think both are morally questionable.

I think if the club want to use their position to benefit indigenous Australians then they should look to those who are starved of opportunities. Jack Martin is already a successful and very well paid athlete. Paying him to become our poster boy seems a very ham-fisted and tokenistic attempt to gain popularity within the indigenous community.

With that in mind I think if the club want to make the effort to do more for the indigenous community they should target the disadvantaged at grassroot level rather than ride the coattails of already established stars.

If that still results in no indigenous players in our best 22 then so be it. I’d prefer the club look to make a genuine difference rather than just a glorified advertising campaign.
 

SayerTheCreator

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Apr 4, 2016
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Yeah nah wrong

Sorry I know Liam and he left for one reason and one reason only, Macca.

And I can’t speak for Magic and Josh Hill but I think you are talking out your butt with this one sorry I have never heard Mag speak of leaving the dogs due to racism and I’ve sat in several of his multicultural youth talks.

Like every other label it’s incredibly easy to throw out there but unfortunately we have had several indigenous players over the last 20-30 years and the biggest issue is they have mainly been sh!t on field so most haven’t had a choice to leave.
Speaking to someone once doesn't constitute knowing them. Sorry.
 

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fronkalicious

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Apr 10, 2008
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I’m keen to know how everyone sees our key position structures with Keath and Bruce.

Can/should Schache, Naughton and Bruce all play forward?? I’m still not so sure how that will work. Although seeing Haynes play on rhylee west and just zone off all day to make life hard for Schache and Naughton on the weekend does make me think.

Just heightens the need for a legit speed merchant small forward if we do play the 3 talls. Dickson, Lloyd and McLean plus the talls ain’t gonna cut it.

Bruce would be the relief ruck (assuming Trengove doesn’t play)?

Keath and Cordy as key defenders? Trengove still has to play on the really big guys like Brown, Daniher, Lynch, Dixon, Wright and hawkins for mine. So maybe horses for courses with that. Cordy misses out if there’s no match up.
 

Doggiesfan14

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Jun 19, 2017
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ALEX KEATH
Keath is asking for as much as $600,000 over four years, which Adelaide won’t be paying. So everything points to a movethat will likely land him at the Dogs. It’s plenty of cash to spend but it rounds out their backline with Zaine Cordy and Easton Wood having plenty of fuel left in the tank.

JOSH BRUCE
On his way to the Western Bulldogsif they can strike a suitable deal with St Kilda for the strong-marking forward. The Dogs want another target inside 50m and the Saints need to make room for Max King. A second-round pick could clinch the move. The Dogs are prepared to offer a three or four year deal to get Bruce over the line.
 

Dogsman16

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Oct 19, 2012
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I’m keen to know how everyone sees our key position structures with Keath and Bruce.

Can/should Schache, Naughton and Bruce all play forward?? I’m still not so sure how that will work. Although seeing Haynes play on rhylee west and just zone off all day to make life hard for Schache and Naughton on the weekend does make me think.

Just heightens the need for a legit speed merchant small forward if we do play the 3 talls. Dickson, Lloyd and McLean plus the talls ain’t gonna cut it.

Bruce would be the relief ruck (assuming Trengove doesn’t play)?

Keath and Cordy as key defenders? Trengove still has to play on the really big guys like Brown, Daniher, Lynch, Dixon, Wright and hawkins for mine. So maybe horses for courses with that. Cordy misses out if there’s no match up.
I have Trengrove and Keath as my 2 defenders. 75% of teams will play that ruck sized forward that Trengrove is equipped to play. He just didn’t have a match up on the weekend.

Bruce and Naughton automatic KPF selections with English obviously starting ruck.

I then want one more tall. This then for me is Schache v Cordy. Schache the goal kicker v Cordy the utility.

I’m a critic of Cordy but I think he provides more value. He can play back and forward and basically fill the gap when a tall is having a rest. Schache to me isn’t going to stand up in games with a finals like environment.

Cordy also allows Trengrove to be the chop out ruck. Keeping our star kpfs in the forward line.
 

Virgin Dog

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Awesome news if the Keath thing is happening. Big fan.

Not dogs related, but Carlton is taking a big swing at jack viney.
If Carlton land Martin, Viney and one of Papley or Gray, they'll be well and truly outside the bottom 4, and could potentially be pushing for finals (most likely 9-12)
 

Virgin Dog

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Viney, Betts, Martin, Papley, Butler...don’t know how Carlton get all these deals done.
Betts will cost nothing. Can't get both Viney and Papley unless they lose a serious player like Weitering. Butler will cost next to nothing. Martin is probably a future 2nd plus a late pick swap or something. Really the only expensive ones are Viney and Papley. That's both 2019 and 2020 1st rounders gone, and then some
 

House_of_Dahl

Premiership Player
Oct 12, 2012
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When did this happen with Liam?

If it was mindless Aboriginal taunts from scumbags in the crowd, was it even common knowledge that he was indigenous?
I haven't overheard specifically racist taunts to him, but anyone that attended our games live has no doubt heard Liam Jones be abused for being a spud and useless etc
 

bobs head soup

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If Carlton land Martin, Viney and one of Papley or Gray, they'll be well and truly outside the bottom 4, and could potentially be pushing for finals (most likely 9-12)
Much as I hate to think it, the way Carlton finished the year, with the young talent they have they should be 7-12 next year without those guys.

Cripps, Walsh, SPS, Fisher, Gow, Murphy, ECurnow, Docherty, Plowman, OBrien, Setterfield through the mids and McKay, CCurnow, McGovern, Jones, Weitering, Casboullt through the spine is not shabby.

With good trades, can definitely be finals contenders. Sadly.
 

stefoid

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I’m keen to know how everyone sees our key position structures with Keath and Bruce.

Can/should Schache, Naughton and Bruce all play forward?? I’m still not so sure how that will work. Although seeing Haynes play on rhylee west and just zone off all day to make life hard for Schache and Naughton on the weekend does make me think.

Just heightens the need for a legit speed merchant small forward if we do play the 3 talls. Dickson, Lloyd and McLean plus the talls ain’t gonna cut it.

Bruce would be the relief ruck (assuming Trengove doesn’t play)?

Keath and Cordy as key defenders? Trengove still has to play on the really big guys like Brown, Daniher, Lynch, Dixon, Wright and hawkins for mine. So maybe horses for courses with that. Cordy misses out if there’s no match up.
Put your most talented forwards forward. We have shown we can score freely, but we have also shown we can be hugely inefficient. We make very hard work of scoring sometimes because of lack of goal kicking talent up forward and its an exhausting way to play during a long season. Sure Naughton can shore up our defence, but kicking goals is the BEST defence.

Schache is an excellent young prospect to have on the list, but we are under no obligation to play a generational CHF in defence to make room for him up forward. If 3 talls works, it works, if it doesnt, well we have a spare.
 

bobs head soup

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I have Trengrove and Keath as my 2 defenders. 75% of teams will play that ruck sized forward that Trengrove is equipped to play. He just didn’t have a match up on the weekend.

Bruce and Naughton automatic KPF selections with English obviously starting ruck.

I then want one more tall. This then for me is Schache v Cordy. Schache the goal kicker v Cordy the utility.

I’m a critic of Cordy but I think he provides more value. He can play back and forward and basically fill the gap when a tall is having a rest. Schache to me isn’t going to stand up in games with a finals like environment.

Cordy also allows Trengrove to be the chop out ruck. Keeping our star kpfs in the forward line.
Don't forget Young who finished the year really strongly I thought and with another preseason in the gym may be the best option of all (in terms of balance between size and athleticism).

A kpd squad of Young, Keath, Trengove and Cordy actually looks pretty nicely balanced for mine Obviously all 4 don't play together, but a versatile group to pick from
 

0utsider

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Much as I hate to think it, the way Carlton finished the year, with the young talent they have they should be 7-12 next year without those guys.

Cripps, Walsh, SPS, Fisher, Gow, Murphy, ECurnow, Docherty, Plowman, OBrien, Setterfield through the mids and McKay, CCurnow, McGovern, Jones, Weitering, Casboullt through the spine is not shabby.

With good trades, can definitely be finals contenders. Sadly.
Looks better on paper than it works out in reality. SPS struggles for consistency, Dow has struggled to impact at all, Murphy has aged like a bloke with the weight of the world on his shoulders since the day he arrived at the club, Ed Curnow is a spud, Docherty hasn't played in 2 years, Setterfield hasn't had much impact, C Curnow struggles to get on the park, McGovern lacks commitment etc.

Lots of promise but they're still a fair bit off being able to step up like Brisbane have this year. Martin, Viney and Papley just put them into contention for finals, but we've seen this year that range stretches from around 7-14 on the ladder. That's the range we need to be fighting our way out of this off season.
 

Mofra

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I’ve been thinking about this for a couple of days now. Why exactly do we want to land an indigenous star? Is it simply to lure others? Or to change the perception of the club? I think both are morally questionable.
No.

It's because we're drafting at least three in the next 2 years via our NGA program, and because it's been a factor in us missing out on three indigenous players in the past three years we tried to lure to the club.

We're shooting ourselves in the foot if we are seen as a 'no-go' zone for 10% of the talent currently on AFL lists.
 

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