Strategy Trade and List management Thread Part 2 (opposition supporters - READ posting rules before posting)

[VitalDread]

Reckon getting a 4th rounder for Roughie

 

[Spectre]

Reckon getting a 4th rounder for Roughie

Do not like. Roughie has struggled recently, but where are we getting a competent replacement who is happy to sit in the 2s while Timmy comes on? Better to hang on to him IMO.

 

[WATCHDOG]

More people born in the western hospital this year then all the other hospitals in vic combined. Our region is bulging and assuming some positive onfield success we will be up there with the big clubs in 20 years time. Our off field work has just been outstanding the last 5 years.

In the 80's the influx to the west was predominantly South East Asian (Vietnamese, Cambodian, etc.) who were not sport orientated. Kill me but it was true. It is slowly but surely changing as the next generations from these families become more Australian with their sports ethos.

In the last 10 years the West has been flooded population wise by new arrivals from India and Africa who ARE sports mad. The kids of this area are into their AFL and because of the 2016 flag they are most certainly Bulldogs. I have had countless conversations with Uber drivers and taxi drivers, who, although foreign to the concept of AFL, claim an affinity to our Club. This is manifesting into their kids.

This fragile mentality of us being a small club is temporary but our marketing department needs to start cashing in on this pronto.

Our next flag will solidify this. We need to make it happen in the next couple of years. A couple of local draftees from these backgrounds will undoubtedly fast track a wave of support due to locality and 2016.

Not going to help us this year in attracting talent but geez our foundations are sound as a Club looking forward.

My daughter has seen success for us aged 6 in AFL, VFL and most importantly for her AFLW. She and her kids may just see sustained excellence.

In the meantime, get May!!

 

[Doggies7]

Clubs like us, North, St Kilda are never going to compete with the likes of Hawthorn, Collingwood etc in attracting players no matter how much more money we're offering. It's like the LA Lakers and the Milwaukee Bucks competing for free agents in the NBA. That's just the way it is, especially in the current climate of the power in trade negotiations lying with players first, then buying clubs, then selling clubs. We're left with looking at players that no big club is chasing, smart pick ups of fringe players, and of course drafting and developing well.

No point in people crying about not being able to attract big names and calling for list manager's heads. Nothing they can do about it.

Try being a Bulldogs and Bucks fan

 

[Prochard123]

Hi, so about Roughhead,

Obviously we won't be playing him in the ruck, so how is he as a key defender? Is he a capable shut down defender? What was the reason of him moving to the rucks in the first place?

 

[hoianbulldog]

Has there been a worse trade period than what this one looks like?

Some clubs win trade.period. some clubs lose trade period. We are neutral.

There have been many clubs with worse trade periods than ours this year.

 

[Wetdog]

It’s exactly that mentally I have fought against for years

Our fans have it and I fear our club has it.

In 2016 the mentally was why not us and we meant it for the first time in my lifetime. Get back to that and anything is possible

Continue to accept and live on the “we tried” and “we can’t compete with bigger teams” we will continue to fail

You spent the whole of 2016 telling this forum that the team wasn't good enough to impact the finals or win the premiership.

If we had your mentality in 2016 (or any other year), every player on the list would be eating triple chocolate ice cream out of bucket while crying to the latest Romcom.

 

[ScragCity]

Hi, so about Roughhead,

Obviously we won't be playing him in the ruck, so how is he as a key defender? Is he a capable shut down defender? What was the reason of him moving to the rucks in the first place?

The only thing Roughy is worse at than rucking is playing as a defender. I doubt he gets a game for you guys at all. Bizarre trade really.

 

[BRWB]

This reminds me of the scene in year of the Dogs when the psychologist tears through them. We have to be better than “we probably did well to be in the running”.

I think your description of what happened is the most plausible and any favoritism given to the Dogs was misplaced given the situation with Hawks.

But while we’re telling the story of all the good reasons why we couldn’t swing our preferred player to the club Essendon is telling the story of how it did.

Not landing the player you go after is failing. There’s no point trying to pretend it isn’t any more than when the team loses a game. No one hasn’t to be fired over one result but it shouldn’t be painted as ‘oh well we weren’t in the running’ any more than that would be acceptable in losing a game.

Disagree. Its semantics possibly but Power not landing Wingard is not necessarily failing. However landing a player with a suspect attitude at an inflated price could well have been failing. Particularly with Bont's contract yet to be done.

Not overcoming historical disadvantage to recruit A grade players in their prime when no other list manager has done it at the Dogs isnt failing IMO.

Its too early to judge Power although his lack of experience is a concern. Although signs are good IMO. Culling and tightening up contracts for injured and non performers is good..Trying to spread our age profile with a higher paid A grade player is good strategy. Just building a list of kids will see a GWS cycle of smashings and then retention isues as those players all enter prime earning age at once.

 

[Wetdog]

Kelly is an awesome player in his prime. And I would happily give up this year and next year's first round picks.

But do we really need a midfielder? I feel like that's our strongest area on the list with a number of really good young midfielders coming through. I know you can never have enough, but...

I would have thought either the forward or backline should take priority over the midfield given where our list profile is at.

We need:

i. An experienced key position defender as Morris will retire soon and Adams is likely on the way out; and
ii. A class forward/high forward with speed and goal sense (e.g. a Stringer, Wingard type ).

These should be the priority areas.

 

[Flags_In_The_Bag]

Left field suggestion - talk to Hogan?

i thought the same thing now after Melbourne almost hung him out to get May, our first and future 2nd, if not our future first.

 

[Wetdog]

Hogan is a massive flight risk. As evidenced by the last two years.

 

[Wetdog]

i thought the same thing now after Melbourne almost hung him out to get May, our first and future 2nd, if not our future first.

Let's trade Adams and go after Steven May.

We need to strike quick while Melb. are stunned about the Dockers position.

He's 27 in Jan. We will get four or five good years out of him.

Is May worth pick 7?

 

[DelRe]

Disagree. Its semantics possibly but Power not landing Wingard is not necessarily failing. However landing a player with a suspect attitude at an inflated price could well have been failing. Particularly with Bont's contract yet to be done.

Not overcoming historical disadvantage to recruit A grade players in their prime when no other list manager has done it at the Dogs isnt failing IMO.

Its too early to judge Power although his lack of experience is a concern.

We probably don’t disagree that much but I’d ask what is the opposite to succeeding? I’m a bit surprised at the aversion to admitting not achieving an objective is failing.

A suspect attitude (which has some elements of hindsight about it) has to be taken out of the equation as if you’ve decided to go after the player then you’ve already decided you can tolerate it. I wouldn’t think you can factor it into a price - eg I’ll take 20% off because I don’t think the attitude is great. I’d argue it’s more binary than that.

As tends to be the case on these forums it slides into two camps of for or against when there is a reasonable middle ground. I don’t think Power (who I again don’t think should be pinpointed in isolation) should be summarily fired for not getting Wingard but I don’t think it should be evaluated as though we’ll let you off because we’re a small club and you can’t expect much more.

If you extend the logic of that argument though you are conceding the club necessarily has to pay a higher market price than others. The club would know that and so has to be prepared to do so otherwise it wil continue to fail to land high value players. In other words that argument means the club should always be putting in higher bids to compensate for the historical disadvantage otherwise it is wasting its time and should just stick to investing heavily in drafting. But then it becomes circular - if they are making higher bids to compensate why do they still not get the player, and if they are not succeeding in getting the player they must be f....

 

[Thunderoad]

Hi, so about Roughhead,

Obviously we won't be playing him in the ruck, so how is he as a key defender? Is he a capable shut down defender? What was the reason of him moving to the rucks in the first place?

The good news is that you’ll get effort and commitment from Roughie in spades and he’s an excellent clubman.

As a defender he never impressed me much. He’s fairly slow off the mark and I was never convinced that he really had the instincts required to be a key position defender.

The game has changed further since that time and intercept marking is an even greater imperative for a key defender so this might suit Roughie a little more as his positioning and capability in this area is solid.

 

[Flags_In_The_Bag]

Let's trade Adams and go after Steven May.

We need to strike quick while Melb. are stunned about the Dockers position.

He's 27 in Jan. We will get four or five good years out of him.

Is May worth pick 7?

In a club in the so called window yes, but i think we enter that in 2020

 

[gangsta deluxe]

Reckon getting a 4th rounder for Roughie

Good, deal done. Collingwood probably weren’t going to use that pick whereas we will. He’s worthless and getting anything at all is a win.

 

[Yojimbo]

I am back from my ban,
Self imposed man,
Away for seven days,
No one gave a damn.

Now to clear up a few items related to my bizarre sense of humour.

* The Dogs do not have shares in the Top Of The Town brothel.
*The Dogs do not own a troupe of Asian sex slaves.
*The Dogs do not have a medicinal cannabis crop known as the Liberatore farm.
*Shane Biggs will not play Bo Duke in the Dukes Of Frankston on channel nine.
*Stormy Daniels may not be her real name.

A few of these points were in jest at people trying to claim the moral high ground
in the poker machine debate.

In Conclusion:
Don't be scared of the dark or afraid of ghosts,
Or offended by the bizarre humour of my posts.

 

[Charlie Bucket]

You spent the whole of 2016 telling this forum that the team wasn't good enough to impact the finals or win the premiership.

If we had your mentality in 2016 (or any other year), every player on the list would be eating triple chocolate ice cream out of bucket while crying to the latest Romcom.

Yeah, how’s the hypocrisy in the Massive Drainers comments ? The biggest defeatist attitude of anyone on here.
He talks that much shite he sometimes forgets what he’s saying.

 

[gangsta deluxe]

Not overcoming historical disadvantage to recruit A grade players in their prime when no other list manager has done it at the Dogs isnt failing IMO.

That just means all other list managers to date have failed.

 

[Munnez]

We should trade 7 for 15 and Duryea. Helps the Hawks get Wingard and helps us secure West.

I wouldn't Pi55 in Hawthorn's mouth if they were dying of thirst. Why help those campaigners Duryea is possibly ending up a DFA

 

[Northernsoul74]

What would Martin + Scrimshaw cost us, and would you lot be happy with that?

Have you seen Scrimshaw play or are you basing on name and fact he was a high draft pick? I have no idea what he actually is.

 

[gangsta deluxe]

I wouldn't Pi55 in Hawthorn's mouth if they were dying of thirst. Why help those campaigners Duryea is possibly ending up a DFA

Clearly a joke. If we get Duryea it’ll be for a very late pick (maybe the one we get for Roughy from Collingwood).

He’s a freeby and the deal will get him for such.

 

[Northernsoul74]

I need some thoughts on this trade:

Pick 7 and steak knives to adelaide for 13 and 16.
Pick 16 to Hawks for Burton

Leaves Burton, pick 13 (Sam Sturt maybe) and west with our Dahl compo. Is this a good enough result for pick 7?

Keep 7 and don’t dilute it personally. There’s a reason the top 7 (plus Blakey) are so highly rated. Quality over quantity. We have enough young players. Only way I’d be moving 7 is for a gun mature need.

 

[Northernsoul74]

Let's trade Adams and go after Steven May.

We need to strike quick while Melb. are stunned about the Dockers position.

He's 27 in Jan. We will get four or five good years out of him.

Is May worth pick 7?

Hasnt May been ruled out fir us? Or was that just a rumor on here?