Strategy Trade and List management Thread Part 2 (opposition supporters - READ posting rules before posting)

[Cousin Ben]

Got Cordy Young and Roberts up our sleeve!

Naughton is going to be so so so good.

Charlie Dixon will rest comfortably in the knowledge that he will play at least one great game again next season.
Honest backmen, but I'm afraid none would be up to such tasks. We've been susceptible to power forwards to often for too long, and it will undoubtedly continue to hold us back. We needed Adams to stay. We needed to make him feel like he wanted to stay.

 

[Igloo]

Charlie Dixon will rest comfortably in the knowledge that he will play at least one great game again next season.
Honest backmen, but I'm afraid none would be up to such tasks. We've been susceptible to power forwards to often for too long, and it will undoubtedly continue to hold us back. We needed Adams to stay. We needed to make him feel like he wanted to stay.

I agree about us being susceptible to power forwards, but Adams doesn't have anything to do with that. He also struggled against power forwards.

 

[TedDougChris]

Good thread. Would read again.

Masochist !!

 

[coxman]

Do you think our club has a good idea who will be available at pick 7 therefore they are happy to sit on this pick at this point in time. Obviously that could change up until draft night but I guess it’s still a good position to be in, if we got Smith and west and khamis that’s a very good draft for us

 

[Dogs Rule]

In all seriousness why is Josh Kelly going to choose us over every other team that will want him? There’s nothing to sugggest we have a chance of getting Kelly.

So we're out of the race before it's even begun? Whose to say he won't choose us. Why wouldn't he choose us this thine next year? We have 12 months to sell the club to him.

 

[ThirdLegUp]

View this as a similar trade period to last year (Stringer aside).

Lloyd and Duryea could well be low cost, decent return moves like Trengove and Crozier last season. They both contributed, Trengove as a stop gap experienced player, and Crozier looks like he has a long term place in the team.

We also got Naughton and Richards from the draft; now we get to bring in pick 7 and West. Naughton+Richards+7+West in 2 years playing with a prime Bont, Macrae and our other talents (Williams, JJ etc) could set us up very nicely.

Wingard would have been a good get, but we failed in our pursuit. Not the end of the world; we just keep on hitting the draft and topping up with low cost moves like Trengove/Crozier/Lloyd/Duryea. Which is basically how we got our premiership; it was from our incredible drafting and a couple of low cost pickups that turned into premiership heroes in Biggs and Hamling. Would have been nice to make a statement in this trade period but I think as long as we nail this pick 7 we should be well placed long term.

100% agree, and very few seem to realise that this thread last year looked pretty much the same regarding the sky falling. Boom or bust seem to be the only 2 options, and anything below Boom, is automatically bust.

 

[footyfan000001]

Do you think our club has a good idea who will be available at pick 7 therefore they are happy to sit on this pick at this point in time. Obviously that could change up until draft night but I guess it’s still a good position to be in, if we got Smith and west and khamis that’s a very good draft for us

Yep for sure! They’d have some idea.

 

[Dogs Rule]

Not too fussed who reads this, Adams seems like a s**t bloke.

Wish him no luck on field.

We carry him through three heavily interrupted seasons and he goes and spits in our eye.

Hope the Lions aren't looking for more than 8-10 games a season from him.

Great trade for us, we move on.

Next, sign Menzel.

 

[footyfan000001]

We carry him through three heavily interrupted seasons and he goes and spits in our eye.

Hope the Lions aren't looking for more than 8-10 games a season from him.

Great trade for us, we move on.

Next, sign Menzel.

Same as Higgins. Pay their medical bills and they’re out the door.

 

[scooter600x]

Unless we delist one more player we aren't even using pick 32

 

[footyfan000001]

Unless we delist one more player we aren't even using pick 32

Khamis?

 

[go you pups]

To the people who are thankful we didn't trade pick 7 for a downgrade of later picks, we can still do that on draft night this year

Hypothetically, if Smith, Rankine and Rozee are gone by 7, do we do this?

Though list spots may be an issue

Absolutely do not want a King

Agree we need to keep Campbell now as depth. Hoping we can have a look at Menzel too as a fwd option. Doesn't seem to be a lot of interest in him, and we definitely have the $ to throw around.

Was Menzel delisted or is he uncontracted and are Geelong waiting on something there? Like us and Libba.

When the club variously announced Gowers, Lynch and R.Smith have signed extensions into 2019 and beyond it was not stated whether they would be senior contracts or rookie contracts.

If all three of these guys were given senior contracts then we only have 4 current senior list vacancies (total 40). This is with Libba, Honeychurch and Campbell all currently un-signed beyond 2018.

I would have hoped that R.Smith was given another rookie deal, but I think he has already had 3 such one-year rookie deals and that used to be the maximum?

I'd expect Lynch to be elevated because his three years are up IIRC

Smith was rerookied last year IIRC

The difference between the way Stringer was managed by us, and Wingard by Port, what could have been.

Stringer and his manager going on Trade Radio and his missus telling everyone her story before he was traded

The club handled it fine and were honest they'd look to move him to a new home, like Melbourne and Jack Watts, the other parties didn't toe that line though and made a massive shitstorm of it that the media and Essendon lapped up.

If there's ever a club you don't want a player to nominate, it's the Herald Scum backed Essendon

Im a strong believer that a good midfield makes a great forward line
Gotta have players that can kick to their leads

Correct

Won't have Dahlhaus fluffing around with it at half forward anymore now which helps in this regard

Now for Hunter to take a leaf from Macraes book and start nailing kicks inside 50

Also good we've found a few hit up types in Schache, Greene and Gowers. Only Red ever did this previous to them, was a massive weakness of Stringers game, always preferred the out the back kick rather than offer consistent strong leads. Whenever he hit up he played well for us.

So when we're up against Riewoldt & Lynch, Kennedy & Darling, or Cox & DeGoey, who takes the 2nd tall?

Cordy was a glaring omission from that list you're quoting, he plays every week for me

Also wouldn't have Duryea and Picken in the best 22 as yet as I feel Duryea will have a lot of competition in his position unless he's a permanent lockdown small, while Picken may still not be able to play. Suckling was left out too from that list, he's best 22 when fit. Lloyd might have a set role though up forward.

 

[perro_loco]

Doesn’t matter if you pay money a supporter is a supporter

We all do it in our own way and it’s disgusting for anyone to challenge anyone else’s support.

I’ve been a paid up passionate member for 40 years and that makes me no more important than the man on the street who can’t afford to be a member but still loves the club. We all love the club to suggest someone isn’t a supporter because they don’t lick the clubs feet at every change is pathetic

 

[Lex22]

Do we target Menzel or some insurance in a depth key back? Or both? Anyone worthwhile in the state leagues or who’s the pick of the delisted bunch as a tall back?

 

[perro_loco]

Happy we have pick 7. We were never going to go for superstars.

 

[TMoney22]

yuck trade period, i'm glad Power went hard for Wingard, thats all we can ask but Wingards manager said he chose Hawthorn due to other indigenous players and playing in front of big crowds. Power can't compete with that so its a collective failure by the club, if we remained in contention since 2016 then we probably would have got Wingard or May.

For those having a laugh at everyone melting there is a good reason why those posters are melting, obviously we didnt to great in this trade period but a lot of other teams got better. I can only see us being better than Gold Coast and StKilda. Carlton are improving their list, they could click at any time now. Our reliance and expectation of natural progression has been our biggest flaw, natural progression just doesn't work like that - everyone is different. And those that say hawks, cats etc are topping up but will fall off the cliff... wow if that isn't small man syndrome then i dont now what is.

2019 is going to be a boring year with 6-8 goal games. We have the most talented bulldog ever in Bont so we need to get our list into contention again over the next 5-6 years. We better draft good.

in regards to drafting, my priority is still mids... mids with pace. The new rules will make pacy mids more important and we need another gun pacy mid.

 

[perro_loco]

So did we end up trading jackson macrae?

Yes, to essendon.

 

[Chadley]

yuck trade period, i'm glad Power went hard for Wingard, thats all we can ask but Wingards manager said he chose Hawthorn due to other indigenous players and playing in front of big crowds. Power can't compete with that so its a collective failure by the club, if we remained in contention since 2016 then we probably would have got Wingard or May.

For those having a laugh at everyone melting there is a good reason why those posters are melting, obviously we didnt to great in this trade period but a lot of other teams got better. I can only see us being better than Gold Coast and StKilda. Carlton are improving their list, they could click at any time now. Our reliance and expectation of natural progression has been our biggest flaw, natural progression just doesn't work like that - everyone is different. And those that say hawks, cats etc are topping up but will fall off the cliff... wow if that isn't small man syndrome then i dont now what is.

2019 is going to be a boring year with 6-8 goal games. We have the most talented bulldog ever in Bont so we need to get our list into contention again over the next 5-6 years. We better draft good.

in regards to drafting, my priority is still mids... mids with pace. The new rules will make pacy mids more important and we need another gun pacy mid.

Firstly you say how Carlton might click any time and how other teams are improving but somehow the youngest team in the competition can't improve?

Secondly you say how we are going to be a boring 6-8 goal team but want to draft more mids?

 

[DelRe]

Every decision necessarily involves risk. I think it’s potentially a misnomer to suggest not trading and keeping picks is the safe option. Instead of gambling on a successful trade the club is now gambling on getting the draft pick right and natural development of players like Boyd and Schache.

 

[Wetdog]

We got Pick 32 and a future pick in the 3rd round.

Even if your glass is half empty and Hawthorn were to finish top 4 again, that future 3rd round pick would be in the early 50s.

Added to Pick 32, this is the equivalent in points of Pick 22. Which is a good outcome for Adams, possibly overs if anything and certainly not unders.

Good result on Adams in my view given the situation:

• We used pick 35 to draft him. So we've made a profit.
• The guy has requested a trade twice now. It's hard to retain a player in that scenario.
• He has shown to be injury prone, only playing 25 odd games in three years. That is worrying.

Don't get me wrong. I would have preferred to have retained him if he wanted to play for us. But he didn't. I suspect it was the extra year plus more money.

Good result by Power and the team given the cards dealt to them.

If Lloyd and Duryea cement their spots in the team next year and place in the top 10 or 15 in the B&F, and we draft a gun at pick 7 plus West, then it's looking like a good trade and draft period.

 

[BRWB]

Power gets a C from me. A little meh. Not horrific - not that good either.

Has he improved the list? Balance wise probably yes. Talent wise no. Dahl and Adams are bigger outs than Dureyea and Lloyd are, ins.

More problematically, relative to other teams we have at best stayed still while they have significantly improved. Tiges got Lynch. Hawks got the outisde run and skill that we needed in Wingard and Scully. Freo improved massively. So did Carlton. Only Port, GWS and GCS got 'more worse' than us.

Positives

- Power cleaned out a lot of dead wood. Perpetually injured players like Adams, C Smith, Redpath and Roughead (seemingly most games got injured). While Biggs was just poor.

- got a better return on Adams than I thought we should have got. 32 and a future Hawks 3rd rd was fair. Jmac would have only got about P45 IMO.

- didn't stuff up overly

Negatives

- not creative enough. Surely there was more and better talent than Lloyd and Duryea out there. Recruiting underpaid and/or out of contract players could have happened. An example was Brodie Mihocek. Targetting some of the Syd sm fwds. Not getting a lick of the ice cream that GCS and GWS were handing out cheaply was disappointing. Particularly since we had some nice currency with the dahl pick sitting there just waiting to be eaten by West.

- didn't land Wingard but more importantly didn't seem to have a viable plan B, C or D.

- could have cut deeper if more trade options were identified. Guys like Dickson, R Smith and Fletch are lucky.

Overall Ive seen far worse. 2003 trading cost us a flag in 08/09 IMO. Not in that territory. While JMacs trading was blancmange like, Powers.first effort was ok.

Will have to see what DFAs, drafting and maybe some mature talent brings. Hopefully P7 is untouched. Would be okay trading up but can see the desperate Crows or Port trumping us.

Sadly, I am kind of hoping Menzel comes to us. Not thrilled to recruit such a walking injury but we simply don't have a fwd line.

Any other delistees or mature talents people can think of? Goal kickers, fast runners who can kick would be my priority (kind of like before the trade period started...)

 

[fronkalicious]

Power gets a C from me. A little meh. Not horrific - not that good either.

Has he improved the list? Balance wise probably yes. Talent wise no. Dahl and Adams are bigger outs than Dureyea and Lloyd are, ins.

More problematically, relative to other teams we have at best stayed still while they have significantly improved. Tiges got Lynch. Hawks got the outisde run and skill that we needed in Wingard and Scully. Freo improved massively. So did Carlton. Only Port, GWS and GCS got 'more worse' than us.

Positives

- Power cleaned out a lot of dead wood. Perpetually injured players like Adams, C Smith, Redpath and Roughead (seemingly most games got injured). While Biggs was just poor.

- got a better return on Adams than I thought we should have got. 32 and a future Hawks 3rd rd was fair. Jmac would have only got about P45 IMO.

- didn't stuff up overly

Negatives

- not creative enough. Surely there was more and better talent than Lloyd and Duryea out there. Recruiting underpaid and/or out of contract players could have happened. An example was Brodie Mihocek. Targetting some of the Syd sm fwds. Not getting a lick of the ice cream that GCS and GWS were handing out cheaply was disappointing. Particularly since we had some nice currency with the dahl pick sitting there just waiting to be eaten by West.

- didn't land Wingard but more importantly didn't seem to have a viable plan B, C or D.

- could have cut deeper if more trade options were identified. Guys like Dickson, R Smith and Fletch are lucky.

Overall Ive seen far worse. 2003 trading cost us a flag in 08/09 IMO. Not in that territory. While JMacs trading was blancmange like, Powers.first effort was ok.

Will have to see what DFAs, drafting and maybe some mature talent brings. Hopefully P7 is untouched. Would be okay trading up but can see the desperate Crows or Port trumping us.

Sadly, I am kind of hoping Menzel comes to us. Not thrilled to recruit such a walking injury but we simply don't have a fwd line.

Any other delistees or mature talents people can think of? Goal kickers, fast runners who can kick would be my priority (kind of like before the trade period started...)

Terrific post man. Summed it up very nicely.

Power seems to know where the list is at, and moving on guys like Dahlhaus and Roughead was shrewd.

He did appear to lack creativity and a plan B as you rightly pointed out. Wreaks of inexperience in the role.

He has another chance to swing some pick swaps, which is super important. If Adams and Dahlhaus are simply lost to points for west and a slight 3rd round upgrade, that’s unacceptable.

If he can find us another pick before west, so we end up with:

Pick 7
Pick 17-20
West
Khamis

As our draft haul, I’d upgrade him to a B+.

If it’s just:

Pick 7
West
Khamis
Pick 63

That seriously sucks.

He has plenty of work to do, but I am heartened that he was willing to make tough calls to move on some guys, and went hard at Wingard.

Go dogs

 

[DelRe]

Power gets a C from me. A little meh. Not horrific - not that good either.

Has he improved the list? Balance wise probably yes. Talent wise no. Dahl and Adams are bigger outs than Dureyea and Lloyd are, ins.

More problematically, relative to other teams we have at best stayed still while they have significantly improved. Tiges got Lynch. Hawks got the outisde run and skill that we needed in Wingard and Scully. Freo improved massively. So did Carlton. Only Port, GWS and GCS got 'more worse' than us.

Positives

- Power cleaned out a lot of dead wood. Perpetually injured players like Adams, C Smith, Redpath and Roughead (seemingly most games got injured). While Biggs was just poor.

- got a better return on Adams than I thought we should have got. 32 and a future Hawks 3rd rd was fair. Jmac would have only got about P45 IMO.

- didn't stuff up overly

Negatives

- not creative enough. Surely there was more and better talent than Lloyd and Duryea out there. Recruiting underpaid and/or out of contract players could have happened. An example was Brodie Mihocek. Targetting some of the Syd sm fwds. Not getting a lick of the ice cream that GCS and GWS were handing out cheaply was disappointing. Particularly since we had some nice currency with the dahl pick sitting there just waiting to be eaten by West.

- didn't land Wingard but more importantly didn't seem to have a viable plan B, C or D.

- could have cut deeper if more trade options were identified. Guys like Dickson, R Smith and Fletch are lucky.

Overall Ive seen far worse. 2003 trading cost us a flag in 08/09 IMO. Not in that territory. While JMacs trading was blancmange like, Powers.first effort was ok.

Will have to see what DFAs, drafting and maybe some mature talent brings. Hopefully P7 is untouched. Would be okay trading up but can see the desperate Crows or Port trumping us.

Sadly, I am kind of hoping Menzel comes to us. Not thrilled to recruit such a walking injury but we simply don't have a fwd line.

Any other delistees or mature talents people can think of? Goal kickers, fast runners who can kick would be my priority (kind of like before the trade period started...)

I’d agree with most of that. I’d add whether we could’ve got more involved in the arms race for picks in South Australia. Overall it seemed a fairly cautious approach. If you accept the small/non-destination club theory then we necessarily need to bid higher otherwise it’s a bit of a waste of time expecting to complete a trade. Even Essendon showed a willingness to pay the price for the player they wanted.

Disagree on Dickson I think he’s a good player and it would be wrong to have lost him (particularly given the current forward line) but I’ve said that enough times.

It’s funny in a perverse way that we have a number one and two pick 200cm players in their early 20s that the club has wanted for so long and yet we find we have little confidence in their output. We’re a little stuck in the middle there now - foolish to do anything but wait and hope for the time being that they come good.

 

[bullish23]

Terrific post man. Summed it up very nicely.

Power seems to know where the list is at, and moving on guys like Dahlhaus and Roughead was shrewd.

He did appear to lack creativity and a plan B as you rightly pointed out. Wreaks of inexperience in the role.

He has another chance to swing some pick swaps, which is super important. If Adams and Dahlhaus are simply lost to points for west and a slight 3rd round upgrade, that’s unacceptable.

If he can find us another pick before west, so we end up with:

Pick 7
Pick 17-20
West
Khamis

As our draft haul, I’d upgrade him to a B+.

If it’s just:

Pick 7
West
Khamis
Pick 63

That seriously sucks.

He has plenty of work to do, but I am heartened that he was willing to make tough calls to move on some guys, and went hard at Wingard.

Go dogs

Clarification point, i don’t pretend to understand how the points work, but would it be possible to have say 17-20 and not be required to use it on West?

 

[The Inbetweener]

I thought there was a 15% discount on f/s bids and a 25% discount on academy bids. At least according to this link.

If so, that would mean that 27 would match a bid on West at 23 rather than 21.

Where are the rules on the discounts listed other than the link that I found?

20% discount if bid comes in first round. Any bid after first round is set at a discount of 197 points