Strategy Trade and List management Thread Part 2 (opposition supporters - READ posting rules before posting)

[The Inbetweener]

Any chance Gold Coast would look at a first next year for pick 6

possible
Currently only have 4 list spots yet have picks 2,3,6,23 and 29. So would be giving away 29.

 

[the conch]

So we're out of the race before it's even begun? Whose to say he won't choose us. Why wouldn't he choose us this thine next year? We have 12 months to sell the club to him.

Leon owes us?

Power gets a C from me. A little meh. Not horrific - not that good either.

Has he improved the list? Balance wise probably yes. Talent wise no. Dahl and Adams are bigger outs than Dureyea and Lloyd are, ins.

More problematically, relative to other teams we have at best stayed still while they have significantly improved. Tiges got Lynch. Hawks got the outisde run and skill that we needed in Wingard and Scully. Freo improved massively. So did Carlton. Only Port, GWS and GCS got 'more worse' than us.

Positives

- Power cleaned out a lot of dead wood. Perpetually injured players like Adams, C Smith, Redpath and Roughead (seemingly most games got injured). While Biggs was just poor.

- got a better return on Adams than I thought we should have got. 32 and a future Hawks 3rd rd was fair. Jmac would have only got about P45 IMO.

- didn't stuff up overly

Negatives

- not creative enough. Surely there was more and better talent than Lloyd and Duryea out there. Recruiting underpaid and/or out of contract players could have happened. An example was Brodie Mihocek. Targetting some of the Syd sm fwds. Not getting a lick of the ice cream that GCS and GWS were handing out cheaply was disappointing. Particularly since we had some nice currency with the dahl pick sitting there just waiting to be eaten by West.

- didn't land Wingard but more importantly didn't seem to have a viable plan B, C or D.

- could have cut deeper if more trade options were identified. Guys like Dickson, R Smith and Fletch are lucky.

Overall Ive seen far worse. 2003 trading cost us a flag in 08/09 IMO. Not in that territory. While JMacs trading was blancmange like, Powers.first effort was ok.

Will have to see what DFAs, drafting and maybe some mature talent brings. Hopefully P7 is untouched. Would be okay trading up but can see the desperate Crows or Port trumping us.

Sadly, I am kind of hoping Menzel comes to us. Not thrilled to recruit such a walking injury but we simply don't have a fwd line.

Any other delistees or mature talents people can think of? Goal kickers, fast runners who can kick would be my priority (kind of like before the trade period started...)

I’m pretty happy. Overall the list is going to be so much more healthy and carrying less problematic or injury prone players. I’m also pleased the club has done the best thing by players who wanted a move.
We’ve blooded a lot of serious young talent and I have faith the club can get the best out of in comers ( eg Crozier and Tregrove have been great once settled in). Lloyd in forward line is very good. Rated by the Tige fans like Trengove from Port last year. Should complement our new more mobile marking fwds.
And this should be a strong draft.

 

[Mofra]

Based on where our list is at I'm coming around to hoping Max King slips to us or we snare Ben King.

Yes Max's knee was in car crash territory with three ligaments damaged, and we do have the dud brother curse to break, but with Roughy, Adams, NMM and Collins off the list we have the chance to develop a tall properly and we are bringing in West and Khamis anyway as a mid (who will start forward) and a mid-sized intercepting defender. One VFL game last year we had Roughy and Campbell and NMM all in the same forwardline!

If we can somehow add Hayes and Caverra who should be pushing for games in 2019 we will feasibly be putting out a better side in 2019 than we did for 2018 especially noting that an extra year into the kids should improve their output. This time last year a debut from Greene would have been seen as an achievement and Williams was only a maybe HBF proposition instead of genuine mid option. Lloyd has been very unlucky the past couple of years, he is best 22 and Duryea plays ahead of Smith. Richards I like on a wing.

 

[Rookie]

We didn't throw assets away due to pride, folly or desperation, so a C+ for me.

Trading up to get another pick before West always seemed like a risky strategy to me, I'm glad we didn't gamble assets on that approach. I'm also glad we pocketed a future third.

Otherwise, we failed to add or attract any guaranteed best 22 players, but we got good value for Dahl and Adams. Roarke Smith played ten games and Lynch played as a forward at times, so Llyod and Duryea should provide more competition.

As for what comes next, is Shoenmakers a chance as a DFA? This may be the year he actually makes sense, seeing we could use some depth in the talls. Menzel or another forward DFA (Weller/Blair/Green don't inspire at all) would be useful, but I'd prefer to raid the lower leagues. Cavarra(?), Hayes and William would be great additions. We must add a speedy, tackling goal sneak through the draft. Any of M.King, B.King, Smith or Rozee would do fine at pick 7. Happy to bank a highly rated tall as both Kings sound like excellent propects who wouldn't be available at 7 in a normal draft.

If Honey-Church (god forbid) or Campbell get another year, it had better be on the rookie list!

 

[Hobdog]

Charlie Dixon will rest comfortably in the knowledge that he will play at least one great game again next season.
Honest backmen, but I'm afraid none would be up to such tasks. We've been susceptible to power forwards to often for too long, and it will undoubtedly continue to hold us back. We needed Adams to stay. We needed to make him feel like he wanted to stay.

Something tells me the Adams horse bolted a long time ago and the efforts to try and get him to stay were most likely well and truly exhausted


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[House_of_Dahl]

Don't agree that Power didn't have a plan b for Wingard. He was pretty clear what that was- hit the draft (which has the most promising top 7 I can recall for or a long time).

 

[Dogs Rule]

yuck trade period, i'm glad Power went hard for Wingard, thats all we can ask but Wingards manager said he chose Hawthorn due to other indigenous players and playing in front of big crowds. Power can't compete with that so its a collective failure by the club, if we remained in contention since 2016 then we probably would have got Wingard or May.

For those having a laugh at everyone melting there is a good reason why those posters are melting, obviously we didnt to great in this trade period but a lot of other teams got better. I can only see us being better than Gold Coast and StKilda. Carlton are improving their list, they could click at any time now. Our reliance and expectation of natural progression has been our biggest flaw, natural progression just doesn't work like that - everyone is different. And those that say hawks, cats etc are topping up but will fall off the cliff... wow if that isn't small man syndrome then i dont now what is.

2019 is going to be a boring year with 6-8 goal games. We have the most talented bulldog ever in Bont so we need to get our list into contention again over the next 5-6 years. We better draft good.

in regards to drafting, my priority is still mids... mids with pace. The new rules will make pacy mids more important and we need another gun pacy mid.

Odd how not having a bunch of indigenous players and not playing in front of big crowds is a failure of the club. The club will be blamed for the Middle East crisis next.

 

[Libba39]

Final picks:
7, 27 , 32, 45, 63, 75

At least we got a couple of second rounders when previously we didn't have one.

Does anyone know what we'll need to use for Khamis? Is he even on our

It was purely a goodwill trade. Roughead was heading to the Pies as a free agent, but they did not want to lower their Fasolo compensation, so they struck an agreement with the club before the close of free agency to get him to Collingwood for a late pick.

Thanks for that!

 

[StringyDog]

Odd how not having a bunch of indigenous players and not playing in front of big crowds is a failure of the club. The club will be blamed for the Middle East crisis next.

This is quite clearly a failure of the club, always has been, we have had only a handful of AFL standard indigenous players ever, as a club we fail to recruit them, fail to manage them and fail to retain them, we have by far the worst hit rate in league.

 

[Dogs Rule]

Adams arrived at the Bulldogs at the end of the 2015 season with pick 35 in the National Draft, and played 11, 10 and six games in his three seasons.

Wow. 27 games out of 73 in three years. Personally, I'm thrilled that we sucked the Lions into handing over not only Pick 32 but another pick probably in the 40s.

 

[fronkalicious]

Clarification point, i don’t pretend to understand how the points work, but would it be possible to have say 17-20 and not be required to use it on West?

Yes. Only picks after a bid on West are used to pay for him. So we should be trying to acquire another pick before any west bid, and then to pay for him with later picks.

 

[Hobdog]

Serious question here. Are people assuming because nothing creative unfolded that Power didn’t propose any creative moves?


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[BRWB]

Serious question here. Are people assuming because nothing creative unfolded that Power didn’t propose any creative moves?


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

Does it make a difference in outcome whether Power failed in planning or execution?

 

[DelRe]

Serious question here. Are people assuming because nothing creative unfolded that Power didn’t propose any creative moves?


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

There’s only two possibilities. The LM team didn’t or the LM team did and they didn’t come off.

 

[Dogs Rule]

Does it make a difference in outcome whether Power failed in planning or execution?

Power wanted Wingard he was clear about that, yet Wingard was put under a spell by playing alongside Burgoyne, Impey, under Clarkson and at the MCG. What more should Power have done?

Everyone, Wingard included, is free to make their own decisions.

Had we given up 7 and a really good player for Wingard or another high pick, there would have been mayhem on here.

 

[Hobdog]

Does it make a difference in outcome whether Power failed in planning or execution?

Nope, the outcome is the outcome. I’m not being a smart a$e, I’m just curious to know people’s thoughts as to whether they think Power hit the period deliberately tentative or if the nature of the trade period sees many creative propositions from clubs that ultimately go nowhere. Personally I’m in the camp that thinks Power did ok. We didn’t get Wingard but listening to his manager, it sounds like it was always mountain too far for us. Feel like the Adams situation was complicated beyond what we know and the usual posturing made way for an ok result. I like Lloyd but I’ll reserve judgement on Doc.


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[_Mike_]

"unless the Club was adequately compensated,” said Bulldogs’ General Manager of List and Recruiting, Sam Power.

"The Western Bulldogs have obtained selection 32 for the upcoming NAB AFL Draft and a future third round section in a trade"


Gee Sam, you really drove a hard bargain there.

 

[_Mike_]

Power wanted Wingard he was clear about that, yet Wingard was put under a spell by playing alongside Burgoyne, Impey, under Clarkson and at the MCG. What more should Power have done?

Everyone, Wingard included, is free to make their own decisions.

Had we given up 7 and a really good player for Wingard or another high pick, there would have been mayhem on here.

Wingard would have been a nice to have, but we didnt have the currency to give up what they were asking for in return (IMO) without detriment to our drafting prospects

 

[bobby2]

It's a shame to not get Wingard or someone of his ilk, but this time last year, it was a shame we missed out on lever for two first round picks and a huge salary.

Personally though, I'd now take Naughton, pick 7 and cap space over lever. In fact, I'd take Naughton alone over lever.

 

[The Original Swooper]

Take a breath and look around.

With the disappointment of not getting the Chad aside, (and I’m not overly fussed tbh), what did we do wrong ? Lost a figjam, a club fave held together by elastoplast, a one legged one dimensional KP, a 5 minutes of fame defender, and a former cult hero bereft of form and motivation. Gee. The club cannot possibly recover from that !

We gain a couple of experienced fringe players. Crozier says hello.

We retained pick 7. A new toy gun will say hello.

We bulked up on lower picks for points. West and Khamis will say hello.

So did we lose anything major. Maybe old Dal. Not the now Dal. So No. and we MIGHT have gained a couple of handy types. So somewhere between C & D (on an A-F scale) is about right. But being average in the trade period ain’t the whole story. Some of the supposed “ winners” have little to nothing left in draft currency. Some for 2 years. Not us. So they better have got those trades right.

I was fortunate enough to catch up with Alan Richardson pre draft. He sounded like Bevo. Said this was going to be a very active period for the Saints, (acknowledging his future maybe dependant upon it), and they did what ? SFA

So chill folks. We will do what we have always done. Develop our own. 2016 suggests we can do it well.

Here’s my predictions.
1. Dogs will make finals
2. Our ins will play more games in 2019 than the outs did in 2018

Oh, and btw, folks bemoaning our young list. If nothing on the list changed the average goes up by a year. The ins and outs will only have a minor effect. But when does a statistic get a kick anyway ?

Hooroo

 

[Dogs Rule]

"unless the Club was adequately compensated,” said Bulldogs’ General Manager of List and Recruiting, Sam Power.

"The Western Bulldogs have obtained selection 32 for the upcoming NAB AFL Draft and a future third round section in a trade"


Gee Sam, you really drove a hard bargain there.

Not bad for a former pick 35 who played 27 out of 73 games in three years and who had a glass body though.

 

[maddog37]

"unless the Club was adequately compensated,” said Bulldogs’ General Manager of List and Recruiting, Sam Power.

"The Western Bulldogs have obtained selection 32 for the upcoming NAB AFL Draft and a future third round section in a trade"


Gee Sam, you really drove a hard bargain there.

What was he supposed to say? “We will take whatever we can get at this stage. We are sick of the big lump of biscuit and his wishy washy commitment to the club”.

 

[House_of_Dahl]

Yes. Only picks after a bid on West are used to pay for him. So we should be trying to acquire another pick before any west bid, and then to pay for him with later picks.

And then wait for melts on here and calls to sack everyone when an earlier bid comes from West and that pick is eaten by it (and we inevetibly lose value in the trade up).

I know your view that it's "Power's job to when the bids will be" and understand you're in the industry (or have been), but this year with live trading clubs are going to keep their cards (ie who they intend to pick) much closer to their chest.

 

[lifesaver]

Agree nothing exciting but at least no McDougall, Rawlings,mBandy,mBartlett, Vezpremi, Sherman or Street.

Mate we have had some shocking trades over the years.

Signing Bont is by far the main game now.

Make the Bont captain and sign him long term on whatever deal it takes. He is the type that will lift his game as captain I believe

 

[maddog37]

It will be interesting to see what the club dynamic is like without guys like Red, Clay, Dal and Shiggsy. Lots of personality going out the door.