Strategy Trade and List management Thread Part 3 (opposition supporters - READ posting rules before posting)

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Snarls Barkley

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Jack Lonie is third in the entire competition for tackles inside 50. Bobby Hill is equal 300th.

Jack Lonie always rates high in pressure acts and tackles inside 50 but I have never really seen him as a good defensive / pressure forward. Ranks higher than Castagna and Daniel Rioli in both stats over his career who'd I would rate in the top couple of players in that defensive pressure role.

Not sure if I've been missing something with him or the stats are a little deceiving. I'm still a no on him, just don't rate him but I might have to take a closer look at him tomorrow night and god forbid rewatch a few Saints from earlier in the year if we keep getting linked to him.
 

cecil

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At least Lonie is in a position of need. Would prefer giving him a shot rather than re-contracting Gowers, Porter, Lynch et al.
 

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Lindsay_Gilbee

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Read an article saying Carlton should go for Zac Merrett. He’d be absolutely banging for us on a wing. Although I’m under no illusions that he’s not going anywhere.
 

flipper83

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An attitude like that would be why we have me indigenous boys, we need to bring a few in at once in order to maximise their growth and make sure they're comfortable.rosas is a quality player and had in not been for rankine playing good footy I think he would be in the 1s currently. Also the way gws play they don't use their small forwards at all except for the last game when they let Daniels have a good chunk of contests in an open pocket, any small forward would struggle in their setup.
The genuine top tier small forwards will all be next to impossible to move but those two I see as the most likely of becoming something
I'm not at all advocating that we don't recruit indigenous players because we don't currently have any but it is a consideration when looking at prospects.

Some indigenous kids wouldn't have a problem stepping into the team but others might.

I'm happy to add a developing forward onto the list and hopefully they are able to contribute next year.

What I'm really wondering is who are the genuine top tier small forwards, regardless of whether they are obtainable or not.

Charlie Cameron is the only one that really comes to mind for me with others like Green and Papley being more lead up players and less x factor/pressure players. Walters seems to play higher up the ground and Ryan can run hot or cold.

If we could add anyone to our list for that position who would we be looking at?
 

Mofra

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Not sure if I've been missing something with him or the stats are a little deceiving. I'm still a no on him, just don't rate him but I might have to take a closer look at him tomorrow night and god forbid rewatch a few Saints from earlier in the year if we keep getting linked to him.
He seems a bit 'meh' to me too considering I was so enthusiastic about Keath last year and targeting Bruce was a bold move last year too.
He is a position of need though so I am glad the club see a pressure forward as a hole on the list too.

TBH if I had my way we would have gone purely for best available with our first pick last year, then targeted a small pressure forward (or two, with x factor) late in the draft last year. There always seems to be an indigenous kid or two who slips/isn't rated by East coast recruiters because of psychometric testing, background, not from the private school system etc.

It seems the perfect breeding ground for speculative picks whose talent far exceeds their reputation. So many small forwards are found in the rookie draft (or like Betts, the PSD which may as well be considered on par with the rookie draft).
 

Virgin Dog

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TBH if I had my way we would have gone purely for best available with our first pick last year, then targeted a small pressure forward (or two, with x factor) late in the draft last year. There always seems to be an indigenous kid or two who slips/isn't rated by East coast recruiters because of psychometric testing, background, not from the private school system etc.

It seems the perfect breeding ground for speculative picks whose talent far exceeds their reputation. So many small forwards are found in the rookie draft (or like Betts, the PSD which may as well be considered on par with the rookie draft).
I wanted Jeremy Sharp with our pick. Still think he'll become an outstanding wing. Ned Cahill would still have been available at our next live pick
 

weltschmerz

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I wanted Jeremy Sharp with our pick. Still think he'll become an outstanding wing. Ned Cahill would still have been available at our next live pick
With hindsight, and given that Weightman is developing a bit slower than expected without the VFL, I think an ideal situation would have been to trade our pick 13 for two picks in the 20s, draft Will Gould and Jeremy Sharp, and then someone like Cahill late draft. Hindsight is always 20/20 though, and we couldn't have expected this year to be anything like what it has been.
 

josh the gent

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What about Peter Wright from the Suns. Could share the ruck load with English and swap up forward. Beautiful kick of the ball and after a wasted year would be busting at the seams next year.

I worked with his dad and bulldogs were going to draft him at pick 6 before the Griffen / Boyd deal and pick 6 turned it all on its head. I'm sure he still fits Bevo mantra.
I really like this idea.

We don’t have a forward-ruck to compliment English, and Wright would be a good fit for that role.

Argument against is that the list will already have Naughton, Bruce, and JUH as tall forward - but I’m not sure any can really ruck (Bruce seems a bit short - albeit is actually taller than Leigh Brown who was superb in the second ruck role in 2010 at Pies).

Not sure what Wright would cost in a trade, surely he’d be at his lowest value in his career to-date - can’t get a game over Ben King.

Maybe his value would be an early second rounder?
 

Dale4captain

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I really like this idea.

We don’t have a forward-ruck to compliment English, and Wright would be a good fit for that role.

Argument against is that the list will already have Naughton, Bruce, and JUH as tall forward - but I’m not sure any can really ruck (Bruce seems a bit short - albeit is actually taller than Leigh Brown who was superb in the second ruck role in 2010 at Pies).

Not sure what Wright would cost in a trade, surely he’d be at his lowest value in his career to-date - can’t get a game over Ben King.

Maybe his value would be an early second rounder?
Have heard the Pies have been into him for a long while, too.

Agree though, would like him as a 50/50 split ruck forward with English. Probably means Brucey either leaves the forward line and sits in the magoos or reinvents himself as the hulking key defender/utility we’ve been screaming out for.

Wright still costs a late first imo. Suns won’t sell him cheap.

Edit: Wright and GC 2nd round pick for our first rounder? Still not sure how I feel about Wright in the team yet though. Would require a lot of KPP re-jigging but maybe that’s what we need.
 

cherrypie

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With hindsight, and given that Weightman is developing a bit slower than expected without the VFL, I think an ideal situation would have been to trade our pick 13 for two picks in the 20s, draft Will Gould and Jeremy Sharp, and then someone like Cahill late draft. Hindsight is always 20/20 though, and we couldn't have expected this year to be anything like what it has been.
I disagree even with hindsight at the moment. Gould can't get a game for Sydney and Sharp was average in his one game for Gold Coast.

Weightman hasn't done much either but I don't see how he'd suddenly be worth less than two players who haven't shown anything.

Realistically too, Sharp hasn't been at his best since 2018 and it's completely unknown as to how Gould will adapt to coming up against similar sizes.
 

Dale4captain

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With hindsight, and given that Weightman is developing a bit slower than expected without the VFL, I think an ideal situation would have been to trade our pick 13 for two picks in the 20s, draft Will Gould and Jeremy Sharp, and then someone like Cahill late draft. Hindsight is always 20/20 though, and we couldn't have expected this year to be anything like what it has been.
Saw Gould first hand playing a preseason game in Blacktown. The kid is an absolute LUMP. His mobility wasn’t great but he was near impossible to move in the contest and he had a great leg. Not sure he suits our zone very well however. Requires lots of lateral movement which def wasn’t his strength.
 

Mojorisin

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Saw Gould first hand playing a preseason game in Blacktown. The kid is an absolute LUMP. His mobility wasn’t great but he was near impossible to move in the contest and he had a great leg. Not sure he suits our zone very well however. Requires lots of lateral movement which def wasn’t his strength.
Not sure how that translates to afl level aswell considering he dominated due to size.
 

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Mojorisin

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I'm not at all advocating that we don't recruit indigenous players because we don't currently have any but it is a consideration when looking at prospects.

Some indigenous kids wouldn't have a problem stepping into the team but others might.

I'm happy to add a developing forward onto the list and hopefully they are able to contribute next year.

What I'm really wondering is who are the genuine top tier small forwards, regardless of whether they are obtainable or not.

Charlie Cameron is the only one that really comes to mind for me with others like Green and Papley being more lead up players and less x factor/pressure players. Walters seems to play higher up the ground and Ryan can run hot or cold.

If we could add anyone to our list for that position who would we be looking at?
Top tier to me is Charlie Cameron a clear best then I believe Betts is still up there
Stengle, butler, rayner, rankine are the next group.
 

Boyd oh Boyd

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Has Tobin Cox shown anything? Just delisted by Port.
I doubt it. He did well in the time trials this year but he's a pretty typical short player that can play mid or forward without being dominant in either position. We have a better version of him in West. Grundy maybe more interesting as an underdeveloped KPD but clubs probably aren't going to have as many list spots on project players. Maybe in a couple of years if he proves too good for the SANFL.
 

Northernsoul74

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It seems like the club and most people in this board want us to add a fast, high pressure forward with x factor.
Most of the names we've been linked to don't seem to fill anyone with enthusiasm (me either) and are either labelled to slow, not defensive or down hill skiers.
I don't get to watch many games not involving the dogs so I'd love to know which small forwards people would like us to target who would meet the criteria of being fast, defensive, having x-factor and being consistent.
I don't think there are that many players out there who fit that description and, while people are happy to write off players, I haven't really seen anyone offering suggestions about who we should target.
They’re not easy to find. There’s a suggestion you can find this type later in the draft but I don’t think it’s that easy. I do think there is a subtext on this board of this type being indigenous as well.
 

Northernsoul74

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With hindsight, and given that Weightman is developing a bit slower than expected without the VFL, I think an ideal situation would have been to trade our pick 13 for two picks in the 20s, draft Will Gould and Jeremy Sharp, and then someone like Cahill late draft. Hindsight is always 20/20 though, and we couldn't have expected this year to be anything like what it has been.
I reckon Gould might be a Kieran Collins type.
 

Northernsoul74

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Have heard the Pies have been into him for a long while, too.

Agree though, would like him as a 50/50 split ruck forward with English. Probably means Brucey either leaves the forward line and sits in the magoos or reinvents himself as the hulking key defender/utility we’ve been screaming out for.

Wright still costs a late first imo. Suns won’t sell him cheap.

Edit: Wright and GC 2nd round pick for our first rounder? Still not sure how I feel about Wright in the team yet though. Would require a lot of KPP re-jigging but maybe that’s what we need.
I just can’t see Bevo playing English and Wright in the same team. With JUH coming in as well I think English remains number 1 ruck and his chop out has to come from an existing positional player like Bruce or a Lewis Young/Gardner type.
 

flipper83

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The value of English is his ability to cover ground like a midfielder. Most of his goals come from losing his opponent up the ground then pushing harder forward. He doesn't have the acceleration or agility to be a real threat deep forward. It's the same with most ruckmen when playing forward.
I think the advantage that we would get in the middle by playing 2 rucks would be outweighed by losing a small or genuine kpf.
I also don't really like Wright from what I've seen. He doesn't really launch at the ball like a forward should and seems a bit lumbering to play as a forward but doesn't do much when I'm the ruck. I feel like he's stuck in no man's land a bit.
 

Dale4captain

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The value of English is his ability to cover ground like a midfielder. Most of his goals come from losing his opponent up the ground then pushing harder forward. He doesn't have the acceleration or agility to be a real threat deep forward. It's the same with most ruckmen when playing forward.
I think the advantage that we would get in the middle by playing 2 rucks would be outweighed by losing a small or genuine kpf.
I also don't really like Wright from what I've seen. He doesn't really launch at the ball like a forward should and seems a bit lumbering to play as a forward but doesn't do much when I'm the ruck. I feel like he's stuck in no man's land a bit.
He’s effectively a very similar player to 2016 Tom Boyd imo. Can absolutely roost the ball, too. Okay in the ruck, okay as a forward. Okay as a player. Whether we can develop him to be more than okay in at least one of those two areas would be the real question.
 

Northernsoul74

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He’s effectively a very similar player to 2016 Tom Boyd imo. Can absolutely roost the ball, too. Okay in the ruck, okay as a forward. Okay as a player. Whether we can develop him to be more than okay in at least one of those two areas would be the real question.
Bevo seemed to be transitioning Boyd to ruck before he retired.
 

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