Strategy Trade and List management Thread Part 3 (opposition supporters - READ posting rules before posting)

[Triple Baileys]

Your reservations seem to be based mainly around the contracts being too generous. I think this overlooks the fact that we are supposed to have more cap space than any other club.

A trade (non-FA) involves 3 dimensions apart from the player himself:

1. The salary to be paid to the new player
2. The length of his contract
3. The price paid to the club he's coming from

• Salary is no real obstacle for us right now. It's not often we can say that.
• I agree length of contract is different because if the player's a dud we have to keep him on the list (list-clogger) or pay him out. However with our current surplus of cap space we can structure our offers to both players to be heavily front-loaded. I'm hoping we've done just that.
• The real issue then is what picks we give up. I agree with you and LittleG on what is fair but that's not always how the market works. As someone just said (EDIT: it was Dogsman16 ), our time is now. So there's an opportunity cost in walking away from these deals.

With regard to our contract offers in front of both players: don't forget that to prise a player out of another club you usually have to offer a bit more than they would get where they are - one or both of salary + length of contract. This is still legitimate in the case of Bruce, even though he supposedly approached us first.

Bottom line: We should be challenging for top 4 in 2020. There's a serious opportunity cost in just walking away from these trades. I'm confident both will get done and hopeful that we can retain our pick #13 in doing so.

So you are prepared to trade 13 to get them both?

Salary can become an obstacle very quickly, like by this time next year.

You'd want to be pretty confident these guys can go the distance. Because, if not...

That's why I was evaluating the contracts against what we give up in picks.

I'm hopeful too but am happy to walk away if we don't factor in the probability that both may have only 2 good years in them. We have to offer 4 to get them here, but let's not lose out on the picks as well.

 

[ivan rassmussen]

Just to be serious for a minute.
The ITK I know has so far in the last 6-7 weeks:
- given me advance warning of Ross Lyon being booted - and as I said on here at the time, I thought he was pulling my leg, so ignored it
- Given me 2-3 other tidbits I shared at the time

I saw him on the weekend - he said while he had knowledge of some trade discussions not in the public sphere to date, there was no chance he was letting any of them out, as any of them would cost his job. In fact, he said much of the stuff he’s privy to never makes it into the public sphere, and even some of the “after the fact” potential trades that never went through pale in comparison to the stuff that clubs seriously consider but never eventuate. He also believes the move towards in-season trade declarations by players about their move for the following season are inevitable.

 

[Bemoreboyddog]

I rate Bruce but not Keath. Jake Lever all over again, looking good while playing on nobody. I'm willing to bet it'll be a different story once you ask him to be accountable. Can he do it? Maybe. Will he be in "All Australian form" doing so? I doubt it.

That’s fair but I think he’s an upgrade on what we have. Also to be fair has he had the chances to play a bigger role with Talia at the Crows? Could shine given an upgraded role. He’s worth less than Bruce but I think he’s worth more than a 3rd round pick.

 

[Smiley Boy]

Just to be serious for a minute.
The ITK I know has so far in the last 6-7 weeks:
- given me advance warning of Ross Lyon being booted - and as I said on here at the time, I thought he was pulling my leg, so ignored it
- Given me 2-3 other tidbits I shared at the time

I saw him on the weekend - he said while he had knowledge of some trade discussions not in the public sphere to date, there was no chance he was letting any of them out, as any of them would cost his job. In fact, he said much of the stuff he’s privy to never makes it into the public sphere, and even some of the “after the fact” potential trades that never went through pale in comparison to the stuff that clubs seriously consider but never eventuate. He also believes the move towards in-season trade declarations by players about their move for the following season are inevitable.

Thanks for that. Was kinda like trade week thus far

A whole heap of nothing

 

[MrChristo]

Operation standing firm, sounds like the Adelaide "Power Stance" to me.

Maybe the plan should be, operation try dealing with clubs who finish above you on the ladder.

This is Josh Bruce and Alex Keath were talking about not Messi and Ronaldo !

I'm a bit disappointed with the cross-sport reference...

"Standing firm" was an easy Josh Bootsma, Travis Cloke, Nick Riewoldt line...

(It is, how-ever, somewhat doubt-ful, that a 28 yo with a dodgy skin bone will be able to do anything of the sort for long...)

 

[Bemoreboyddog]

I’d be absolutely elated if we can land Bruce, Keath and Smith. Hopes aren’t high on Smith but wow he’d be a huge get.

 

[_M_16_]

Possible 3 way trade of Fremantle, Saints, Port

Port Loses Ryder, Howard, Pick 10
Gains Pick 12 and 18

Saints lose pick 12 and 18, future first
Gain Ryder, Howard, Hill

Fremantle lose Hill
Gain Pick 10, future first round pick tied to Saints

Possible later picks swapped.

 

[Mr. Walker]

I am spending so much time on this thread the last week that I am really regretting paying the extra for the gold membership on pr0n.com. Wednesday night cannot come soon enough.

 

[SaltPeter]

Can Keath go into the preseason draft and just put a caveat on his head to say he'll only accept a 4-year deal worth XYZ and the 'Dogs just hope Saints or another Melbourne club respect his wishes? I don't even know if this is a done thing in the AFL community anymore.

Someone enlighten me. Assuming it's not done regularly as it opens that player up to be taken by literally anyone willing to match the contract.

Yes. In essence a player who nominates for the either the ND or PSD and has been on an AFL list previously includes contract demands as a part of his nomination.

An experienced player doesn't go into a draft and getting picked up for base pay and a standard 2 year contract (unless he that's all he wants).

By the same token, the PSD wasn't really designed for this purpose. The AFL doesn't like this outcome much and prefers clubs to trade in good faith. BigFooty is only the place "let him to PSD" or "send him to the PSD" is a popular concept

 

[Mr. Walker]

PS When I say " Wednesday Night" I mean the actual night. That's not a name.

 

[Generation West]

Boring I know, but we will land Bruce with 32 and Keath with 45 and keep 13, possibly for Cody Weightman.
These deals have been on the table since day 1 of the trade period and SP has been unwavering in his negotiations.
One could argue that we are getting the slightly better deal with both trades but our time will come when we need to cop one on the chin and slightly lose out on a trade.
If it goes down as expected, then SP has done an exceptional job for the football club.

 

[ivan rassmussen]

In less than 48 hours, we will be able to equally vent at Sam Power, our new “spuds” and each other...

 

[Triple Baileys]

I am spending so much time on this thread the last week that I am really regretting paying the extra for the gold membership on pr0n.com. Wednesday night cannot come soon enough.

You should be careful. If you watch too much pron it makes you misspell words.

 

[Generation West]

Not sure whether this is by design or not, but I like the way we have identified players based on needs and whether these guys are attainable. We identified Martin, Bruce and Keath and all kinda align with draft picks 13, 32, 45. We must have been close with Martin and if we had an indigenous presence at the club he almost certainly nominates us as well.

Seems very strategic and well thought out as opposed to the scatter gun approach of other clubs.

 

[bresker]

BigFooty is only the place "let him to PSD" or "send him to the PSD" is a popular concept

I hear it every year but it never happens. Has it?

 

[SaltPeter]

I hear it every year but it never happens. Has it?

Port Power sent Nick Stevens to the PSD. No sure if there have been any others, doubt it

 

[conrad_437]

Port Power sent Nick Stevens to the PSD. No sure if there have been any others, doubt it

Luke Ball is the only real one I can remember, but he was taken in the National Draft at #30. I agree, it is an empty threat and it rarely will ever eventuate.

 

[RedWhite&Blue]

Bruce will be tomorrow.
Adelaide starting to panic on Keath. Won’t be long now...

 

[gangsta deluxe]

Port Power sent Nick Stevens to the PSD. No sure if there have been any others, doubt it

Jade Rawlings too - Veale deal.

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

Lethlean again said they'd be in touch with Ben King before his contract is up .. bellend

He probably signed on because of they pressure they keep heaping on him ... they even did it straight after he was drafted

That’s disgusting behaviour from an official of the club. As if somehow St Kilda has a right to Ben King. How would we like Eddie to be behaving like this over Ed Richards? Gordon and Bevo would tell him to take a running jump.

 

[SaltPeter]

Luke Ball is the only real one I can remember, but he was taken in the National Draft at #30. I agree, it is an empty threat and it rarely will ever eventuate.

Same scenario, but yes, Ball nominated for the ND. Collingwood pulled a bit of a shonky on that 1, the loophole has been closed now. Players can still dominate for the ND.

The PSD is really more for players who have been delisted by their club and are looking for another opportunity. Some people believe the PSD should be scraped. Some people believe that keeping the PSD available to players negates arguments around restrain of trade

 

[bobs head soup]

But isn't trading pick 32 for a 28(?) Yr-old who has only played 30 games paying WAY over?

Well if he walks into our best 22, fills an obvious need, helps our age profile and is good enough for a 4 year decent money contract, 32 is by no means an extravagant price. All the better if we get him cheaper, but seriously doubt we'll get better value elsewhere out of 32.

 

[footyfan000001]

Dogs give 2020 first to crows

Crows give 28 and Keath.

Dogs give 28 to saints for Bruce.

Retain 13.

Make it happen.

 

[Doggy]

That’s disgusting behaviour from an official of the club. As if somehow St Kilda has a right to Ben King. How would we like Eddie to be behaving like this over Ed Richards? Gordon and Bevo would tell him to take a running jump.

It is Lethlean after all ... a huge knob

 

[Sentinel]

Luke Ball is the only real one I can remember, but he was taken in the National Draft at #30. I agree, it is an empty threat and it rarely will ever eventuate.

Jed Lamb wanted a trade from Sydney to GWS but ended up having to go through the preseason draft to get there.

It's very rare, but it has happened before.