Strategy Trade and List management Thread Part 4 (opposition supporters - READ posting rules before posting)

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Boyd oh Boyd

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Nov 29, 2018
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I want a ruck but I'm not worried about missing out on who was on the market this year. Rewatching parts of the GF last night Martin does fine in the ruck. Gawn easily wins the hitouts but Martin is a constant physical presence so the taps are mostly neutral. English actually wins more hitouts than Martin when he goes into the ruck. In that last minute of the third where Melbourne kick 3 goals out of the middle English wins all three taps, and I reckon at least two are to advantage. It's stuff like this why I just don't rate the ruck position, it doesn't matter who wins it or where it goes. The best midfield will win the clearances in a game 9/10 times regardless of the ruck.

Ruck's are obviously useful but the tapwork itself isn't that important. As long as they can influence the game in another way it's fine.
 

Rioli2Rioli

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Nov 23, 2015
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Hi guys great trade period with accumulating points - well done

Just wanted to run an idea past to see if you guys thought it as a good deal for both Tigers/Doggies

Doggies out : #23
Doggies In : #38 + Richmond F2 (roughly 28-30 range)

Richmond In : #23
Richmond out :#38 + 2022 2nd rounder

Would leave the doggies with 38 , 43 , 44 , 45 , 52 = 1798 points Darcy Bid #3 roughly 1785 points after discount 20% Basically meets perfectly
This then allows the Doggies the option of keeping Richmonds 2022 2nd rounder or on trading after matching Darcy bid to another team like Brisbane or maybe North for 42 +47 which will come in around 5-7 spots so could end up 37 & 40
 

The Inbetweener

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Hi guys great trade period with accumulating points - well done

Just wanted to run an idea past to see if you guys thought it as a good deal for both Tigers/Doggies

Doggies out : #23
Doggies In : #38 + Richmond F2 (roughly 28-30 range)

Richmond In : #23
Richmond out :#38 + 2022 2nd rounder

Would leave the doggies with 38 , 43 , 44 , 45 , 52 = 1798 points Darcy Bid #3 roughly 1785 points after discount 20% Basically meets perfectly
This then allows the Doggies the option of keeping Richmonds 2022 2nd rounder or on trading after matching Darcy bid to another team like Brisbane or maybe North for 42 +47 which will come in around 5-7 spots so could end up 37 & 40
I’d certainly be looking at something like that, issue is there is good mail GWS will bid on Darcy pick 2.

Perhaps it could be a trade on draft night if Darcy slips past pick 2.
 

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HK_Bulldog

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I wonder if some recruiting managers have good relationships and would help another as long as it doesn’t hurt their own club. Eg, would JMac tell Power if he is going to bid at 2?
 

BEaston

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I want a ruck but I'm not worried about missing out on who was on the market this year. Rewatching parts of the GF last night Martin does fine in the ruck. Gawn easily wins the hitouts but Martin is a constant physical presence so the taps are mostly neutral. English actually wins more hitouts than Martin when he goes into the ruck. In that last minute of the third where Melbourne kick 3 goals out of the middle English wins all three taps, and I reckon at least two are to advantage. It's stuff like this why I just don't rate the ruck position, it doesn't matter who wins it or where it goes. The best midfield will win the clearances in a game 9/10 times regardless of the ruck.

Ruck's are obviously useful but the tapwork itself isn't that important. As long as they can influence the game in another way it's fine.
Agreed. It has been proven they have the least impact on the outcome of a game.

Our (non-ruck) mids got destroyed. End of story.
 

Mofra

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We easily could have hooked our 2022 second rounder as bait to land a serviceable ruck - but doesn’t appear that we even tried…
Max Lynch went for pocket change, basically a down grounded future 3rd. We could have boosted a vulnerable area of the ground for even less capital. It seems an extraordinary risk to take a threadbare ruck division into 2022 for a team smack bang in their window.
 

Mofra

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I wonder if some recruiting managers have good relationships and would help another as long as it doesn’t hurt their own club. Eg, would JMac tell Power if he is going to bid at 2?
We did have good relationships with WCE and Adelaide a few years ago - had a few pick swap deals that benefited both clubs.
Reading between the lines it sounds like we've had a lot of dialogue with Richmond to work on pick swaps from the start of trade period (they were initially linked to our pick 17) and our pick 23 may still be in play subject to list spots.
 

doggy_dog

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Aug 25, 2020
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Hi guys great trade period with accumulating points - well done

Just wanted to run an idea past to see if you guys thought it as a good deal for both Tigers/Doggies

Doggies out : #23
Doggies In : #38 + Richmond F2 (roughly 28-30 range)

Richmond In : #23
Richmond out :#38 + 2022 2nd rounder

Would leave the doggies with 38 , 43 , 44 , 45 , 52 = 1798 points Darcy Bid #3 roughly 1785 points after discount 20% Basically meets perfectly
This then allows the Doggies the option of keeping Richmonds 2022 2nd rounder or on trading after matching Darcy bid to another team like Brisbane or maybe North for 42 +47 which will come in around 5-7 spots so could end up 37 & 40
I reckon we’ll do something like this on draft night once the bid lands. We’ll have a few scenarios in mind and deals lined up going into the night
 

TBOW

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Aug 9, 2012
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Hi guys great trade period with accumulating points - well done

Just wanted to run an idea past to see if you guys thought it as a good deal for both Tigers/Doggies

Doggies out : #23
Doggies In : #38 + Richmond F2 (roughly 28-30 range)

Richmond In : #23
Richmond out :#38 + 2022 2nd rounder

Would leave the doggies with 38 , 43 , 44 , 45 , 52 = 1798 points Darcy Bid #3 roughly 1785 points after discount 20% Basically meets perfectly
This then allows the Doggies the option of keeping Richmonds 2022 2nd rounder or on trading after matching Darcy bid to another team like Brisbane or maybe North for 42 +47 which will come in around 5-7 spots so could end up 37 & 40
I agree that we will try to do something similar, but our best option might be to work with GWS.
We could trade 23 for their future second and pick 53 with an agreement not to bid on Darcy.
That would guarantee us the points to match after the picks shuffle up following the 2 bid matches.
 

DognBones

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Sep 3, 2007
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Looking at the Western Bulldogs Senior List (web site) a lot of the players have grown an inch or two
Cordy was 193 for years now 195 - must have the long stops on ;)
Based on rate of height increase to age, instead of being only 175cm, I should be a giant 200cm+ by now. Damn it, I wish I was measured by the guys that list the Bulldogs players' statistics.😉
 
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LondonBulldog

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What's the evidence that it does lead to a problem? Do we lose clearances more than other teams? Are other teams somehow more efficient in scoring from clearance wins than the league average against us?
Imagine how good our team with be with a greater hit outs to advantage. We have fantastic group of onballers and the Bont. Lets hope the ruck situation doesn't stop then from getting a premiership.
Bevo has shown faith in Sweet and English, let hope they can both improve, Sweet fitness and English aggression. I would have let Martin go and went for Landhams hard even if we went into point deficient. Our window is now.
 

LittleG

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Max Lynch went for pocket change, basically a down grounded future 3rd. We could have boosted a vulnerable area of the ground for even less capital. It seems an extraordinary risk to take a threadbare ruck division into 2022 for a team smack bang in their window.
I though Lynch was our target. It’s was what I was led to believe by a scout from another team. He said he had seen us recording away from play footage of his work rate and positioning. His info is usually pretty good and I was surprised that Lynch didn’t nominate us during trade week.
As you said, he went for very little trade currency and personally I would have made that trade.
We must not have been interested…. Which begs the question who we were targeting and why did that effort fall through.
 

LondonBulldog

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Agreed. It has been proven they have the least impact on the outcome of a game.

Our (non-ruck) mids got destroyed. End of story.
Really, who don't think a ruckmen named Jackson had any influence on that impressive patch of 11 or so minutes. Agreed its not just the taps but its the aggression and win at all costs what Jackson had in Spades along with all there onballers when ours for whatever reason went missing including Treloar, Bont and English.
 

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ThePhreshOne

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Really, who don't think a ruckmen named Jackson had any influence on that impressive patch of 11 or so minutes. Agreed its not just the taps but its the aggression and win at all costs what Jackson had in Spades along with all there onballers when ours for whatever reason went missing including Treloar, Bont and English.
Max Gawn is the first top 10 ruckman to be a premiership ruckman since Dean Cox.
 

Philthy1

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Sep 17, 2017
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We don’t need more points in this draft though. I think all that trade achieves is to preserve our picks in the 40s/50s. I’d much rather live flip #23 into just enough points to cover the Darcy bid and receive the excess in 2022 picks. We can the easily trade that extra 2022 pick to get back into there 2nd or 3rd round this year.


Agree. Happy to be corrected but from memory the points value system was designed around the expected games played by pick and naturally smoothed out. The problem is this doesn’t capture (i) the expected quality of those games and (ii) wasn’t adjusted for the continued improvement in the recruiting caper.

Accordingly the relative values are all wrong which is evidenced by the repeated ability to extract 30-50% points premiums when downgrading picks. It’s ridiculous that teams (we have been the recent beneficiary) then get the extra 20% discount. I think the AFL has to either (i) scrap the discount entirely and say that it is effectively delivered via the dodgy “exchange rate” or (ii) commit to periodically updating the index to reflect the implied rates from previous years trades which only involvepicks.
We've thrown all our draft assets at one player two years in a row. We need to maintain a steady pipeline of promising players coming through.
 

doggies ftw

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A guy named Nankervis and even Lycett would argue otherwise. Both would have been top ten in their respective years.
I’d argue even McEvoy wouldn’t be far off top 10 in his years. No ones saying we need the best ruckman in the comp to win a flag but I don’t think you can win with the flat out worst ruck division in the league it’s just too big a hurdle.

Again our midfield is so far ahead of the next best it’s not funny, our depth in the midfield is even further ahead. We should be dominating teams out of the middle, we’re not.

let’s hope our ruck division is middle of the range next year, quite possible if English and Sweet come on and Martin stays fit etc
 

VitalDread

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For Reference before the trade period

Western Bulldogs35 players7 (+1 cat B)

Out: Jong, Lipinski and Young
In: TOB

With Hayes and Cav likely delisted, we have 4 spots free for the draft

Minimum AFL list needs to be 35 Main listed players (currently at 33 Main Listed after Trade Period)
 

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