Strategy Trade and List management Thread Part 4 (opposition supporters - READ posting rules before posting)

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The Inbetweener

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Jon Ralph’s article today confirmed it was Ivan Soldo we were chasing and that we didn’t even look at Ladhams or Ceglar.

his line that we’d be reigning premiers if we had a top 6 ruck is a kick in the teeth
 

The Inbetweener

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Can you share the article if you can please
3. Western Bulldogs
David King says the Dogs have the biggest premiership window in the competition.

If they had a top-six ruckman playing for them this year they would enter this summer as reigning premiers.

So all the lofty predictions apply – the Bont had one hand on the Norm Smith early in the third term of the grand final, Sam Darcy and Jamarra Ugle-Hagan could be anything, the depth is off-the-charts good.

But it is understood the Dogs had a significant crack at Richmond’s premiership ruckman Ivan Soldo before he re-signed for three years in September, then didn’t chase a Peter Ladhams or Jon Ceglar as a fall-back option.

So until Tim English can consistently show us he is the player that mauled Brodie Grundy in Round 1 (with help from Stef Martin), we will continue to wonder if the rucks will cost them another flag.

Early prediction: You know how the Dogs really hate GWS? Prepare for the Dogs and Melbourne to go at it in Round 1 after the grand final loss and its aftermath, just as the fuse was lit the summer after the Giants roughed up Marcus Bontempelli in that infamous elimination final.
 

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Bulldogs85

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3. Western Bulldogs
David King says the Dogs have the biggest premiership window in the competition.

If they had a top-six ruckman playing for them this year they would enter this summer as reigning premiers.

So all the lofty predictions apply – the Bont had one hand on the Norm Smith early in the third term of the grand final, Sam Darcy and Jamarra Ugle-Hagan could be anything, the depth is off-the-charts good.

But it is understood the Dogs had a significant crack at Richmond’s premiership ruckman Ivan Soldo before he re-signed for three years in September, then didn’t chase a Peter Ladhams or Jon Ceglar as a fall-back option.

So until Tim English can consistently show us he is the player that mauled Brodie Grundy in Round 1 (with help from Stef Martin), we will continue to wonder if the rucks will cost them another flag.

Early prediction: You know how the Dogs really hate GWS? Prepare for the Dogs and Melbourne to go at it in Round 1 after the grand final loss and its aftermath, just as the fuse was lit the summer after the Giants roughed up Marcus Bontempelli in that infamous elimination final.
Thank you
 

Libbaaaa

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Always going to be hard to pry Soldo away from Richmond with the Ivan Maric and Croatian connection the entire club have going on.
 
Mar 10, 2007
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Always going to be hard to pry Soldo away from Richmond with the Ivan Maric and Croatian connection the entire club have going on.

Agreed, but we needed a Plan B in case he didn’t join
 
Agreed, but we needed a Plan B in case he didn’t join
There were younger rucks available that would be comparatively cheap and ready to go, it just seems strange that we had a plan A with no plan B at all.
I like Martin as a mentor but I have little faith in his ability to contribute in 2022.
 
Can't exactly say I'm shattered we missed out on Soldo, to be frank. Not sure what we'd have to have given up for him, but I wouldn't have said he was worth any more than a third rounder, and is he really an upgrade on Tinglish? A few more hitouts (which yes, is obviously a priority of a ruckman) but I wouldn't call him effective around the ground, and he's zero threat up forward.

If we were going for a ruck I think I'd have preferred we go at Max Lynch over Soldo.
 
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Sep 22, 2008
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I would have loved Soldo, he’s just a brute and an absolute workhorse, that’s what we need to compete in the hitouts but more importantly is his follow up grunt work at ground level, which provides the coverage to allow our midfield to set up a bit more offensively. There is zero chance Melbourne do what they did at the end of the 3rd if he was in the centre square. The sort of ruckman that completely frees up Timmy to do his best work too, couldn’t give a * if Soldo can’t rest forward, why does he need to? We don’t need a tall target down forward we need an 80% a game ruckman.

massive shame we missed out but I’m glad to know we were interested in that type
 
Jul 6, 2015
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There were younger rucks available that would be comparatively cheap and ready to go, it just seems strange that we had a plan A with no plan B at all.
I like Martin as a mentor but I have little faith in his ability to contribute in 2022.

The Dogs going from from English, Martin & Sweet in 2021 to English Martin & Sweet in 2022.

Screen Shot 2021-11-29 at 8.33.34 pm.png
.
 

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Can't exactly say I'm shattered we missed out on Soldo, to be frank. Not sure what we'd have to have given up for him, but I wouldn't have said he was worth any more than a thid rounder, and is he really an upgrade on Tinglish? A few more hitouts (which yes, is obviously a priority of a ruckman) but I wouldn't call him effective around the ground, and he's zero threat up forward.

If we were going for a ruck I think I'd have preferred we go at Max Lynch over Soldo.
Yep, it's weird as Mynch seems the Bevo prototype for a ruckman given he is an elite runner and he would have been fairly cheap too.
From a list balance point of view, was adding a 28th HBFer really more important than ruck depth?
 

TiAn_

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The interest in Soldo suggests to me that following Martin we were only looking at bringing in someone that could hold down first ruck long-term. Just spit-balling here, but perhaps part of the rationale of avoiding a stop-gap was in case playing second banana encouraged English to head home, and a long-term first ruck meant we wouldn't be left high and dry for the future if that happened. Maybe the alternatives in that ability and age range like Max Lynch had already been tapped up and were destined to go elsewhere.

As to the draft/trade haul, as much as we all wanted a gun or developing KPD, I actually think we had a gap on our list for defensive half tall/small utility players that are 190cm+, like O'Brien, Parker, Raak and Cleary. O'Brien replacing Wood means we now have three KPD sized defenders with Keath and Gardner in the KPD stopper roles. But around them, Williams is the only one you'd say is close to a tall/small utility size. We otherwise have smaller players like Duryea, Crozier, Daniel, Dale, Richards and Scott that often have to man a taller or more competent aerial player back there due to our zone. I won't hold my breath for it next season, but i can see real upside if Raak or Parker can take a backline spot and do a decent job with ball in hand while reducing our mismatches against mid-sized and KP forwards.
 
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The interest in Soldo suggests to me that following Martin we were only looking at bringing in someone that could hold down first ruck long-term. Just spit-balling here, but perhaps part of the rationale of avoiding a stop-gap was in case playing second banana encouraged English to head home, and a long-term first ruck meant we wouldn't be left high and dry for the future if that happened. Maybe the alternatives in that ability and age range like Max Lynch had already been tapped up and were destined to go elsewhere.

As to the draft/trade haul, as much as we all wanted a gun or developing KPD, I actually think we had a gap on our list for defensive half tall/small utility players that are 190cm+, like O'Brien, Parker, Raak and Cleary. O'Brien replacing Wood means we now have three KPD sized defenders with Keath and Gardner in the KPD stopper roles. But around them, Williams is the only one you'd say is close to a tall/small utility size. We otherwise have smaller players like Duryea, Crozier, Daniel, Dale, Richards and Scott that often have to man a taller or more competent aerial player back there due to our zone. I won't hold my breath for it next season, but i can see real upside if Raak or Parker can take a backline spot and do a decent job with ball in hand while reducing our mismatches against mid-sized and KP forwards.
Raak is the same height as Jake Lever and Parker is the same height as Stephen May. If one of them kicks on and becomes a consistent AFL footballer we've done well considering their draft position. Nick Vlastuin was an amazing intercept mark during Richmond's 3 in 4 year era and he's 187cm so there is potential for Parker to bring that skillset to the team.
 

TiAn_

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Raak is the same height as Jake Lever and Parker is the same height as Stephen May. If one of them kicks on and becomes a consistent AFL footballer we've done well considering their draft position. Nick Vlastuin was an amazing intercept mark during Richmond's 3 in 4 year era and he's 187cm so there is potential for Parker to bring that skillset to the team.

Parker's the one that excites me the most. Hard to know what he could be, but if he could develop into a player that could do the intercept/third man up stuff but give us some run and neat ball use, similar to a Scrimshaw or a Wilkie, i think it would add a fair bit for us.
 

bobs head soup

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This guy is a shot too. Sandringham was the top source for draftees this year and he was 2nd to Finn Callahan in their b&f playing as an intercept defender.

Of our 7 players added to the list this year, 5 show potential to be a tall intercept defender (OBrien, Cleary, Parker, Raak and Darcy). Fair to say it was identified as an area of need.
 
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Early days, obviously positive they're engaging, impossible to read fully into managers' comments at the beginning of negotations etc - but:
"They're not underway yet, but we're going to catch up in the next couple of weeks actually," Daniel's manager, Marty Pask, told AFL.com.au's NAB AFL Draft Night Countdown last week.

"The footy club has reached out and we're going to have initial chats and have a discussion around where everything sits. There's no timeframe or timeline and, from our end, we're always happy to sit down and listen.

"He's been a great player for the Bulldogs. He's got himself a fantastic playing CV at that footy club and we're always keen to have a chat to them."

The choice of words here fills me with a bit of doubt. "Fantastic playing CV," "been a great player," "happy to sit down and listen," are pretty far from the usual, "We're pretty keen to try to get something done."
 
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Early days, obviously positive they're engaging, impossible to read fully into managers' comments at the beginning of negotations etc - but:


The choice of words here fills me with a bit of doubt. "Fantastic playing CV," "been a great player," "happy to sit down and listen," are pretty far from the usual, "We're pretty keen to try to get something done."
I think that these comments are first and foremost those of a manager who is trying to boost the worth of his client which is his role I suppose. And yet, the tone suggests that our offer needs to be a very good one because there are plenty of other possible bidders out there which he will consider.
 
Sep 7, 2015
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Early days, obviously positive they're engaging, impossible to read fully into managers' comments at the beginning of negotations etc - but:


The choice of words here fills me with a bit of doubt. "Fantastic playing CV," "been a great player," "happy to sit down and listen," are pretty far from the usual, "We're pretty keen to try to get something done."

If I were Caleb and my manager said, "we're keen to get a deal done," I'd sack him immediately.
 

Golden_6

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Early days, obviously positive they're engaging, impossible to read fully into managers' comments at the beginning of negotations etc - but:


The choice of words here fills me with a bit of doubt. "Fantastic playing CV," "been a great player," "happy to sit down and listen," are pretty far from the usual, "We're pretty keen to try to get something done."
As other have said, not concerned. That's a lot of manager speak. If we head into the back half of next season and nothing looks imminent, then I'd be concerned.
 
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