Strategy Trade and List management Thread Part 4 (opposition supporters - READ posting rules before posting)

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Mattdougie

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We were talking about Sydney taking JUH at 3.

Similarly we took Dunks in 2015 when Sydney had rights to him at their next pick. I have no doubt Sydney have this in the back of their mind when they select JUH at pick no. 3.

Dunks told the swans he wanted to stay in Melbourne which means his dad didn’t want him to go up there.

They agreed not to match if someone took him but there is no way Dalrymple lets him go past them this time
 

Bro_Pro

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With the new addition of players we got over the trade season, retaining our current players and also a proper offseason training together what’s everyone’s realistic pass park for next year...?
Mine is to finish 3rd to 5th and win 2 finals!!
 
With the new addition of players we got over the trade season, retaining our current players and also a proper offseason training together what’s everyone’s realistic pass park for next year...?
Mine is to finish 3rd to 5th and win 2 finals!!
1st place
Premiership
Bevo comes out of retirement to play Ruck
 

weltschmerz

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With the new addition of players we got over the trade season, retaining our current players and also a proper offseason training together what’s everyone’s realistic pass park for next year...?
Mine is to finish 3rd to 5th and win 2 finals!!

Getting to a prelim.
 
I agree with you on JJ. Needs to be a forward half player going forward, and with his speed and experience he'll give us a nice boost. We have 3 players who are good at defending and attacking (Crozier, Williams, and Duryea). There's room for one distributor who doesn't excell at defending but that's covered by our AA half back Caleb Daniel. We can't seem to get JJ back into the player he was a few years ago so time to remake him.

But for those reasons I don't see Richards playing at half back. I don't see him above any of the 4 mentioned. Wood will still be in the side for at least another year, and then we need 2 KPDs on top of those. A 7 man defence is our usual MO. I also don't seem him above any of JJ, Hannan or Vandermeer for that forward half spot. So I'm putting him as depth. He's shown potential but that's only amounted in less than a dozen games in 3 years I'd call 'good' (not just 'good for a young player') and most of those were in his first season. I'm far from writing him off but if I'm picking the side I think is most capable of winning I'd go with more consistent players and let the others develop. What position he'll play depth in is interesting. We've been short on forwards for a while but with Suckling, Lynch, and La Young out we're suddenly not as ridicuously overstocked on half backs as we used to be. That could go either way but I'm leaning towards sending him back to defence, a good opportunity to relearn the position in the VFL.
doggies ftw
I agree with you both on JJ. Makes total sense.
I agree with Boyd oh Boyd on Richards down back, he's just too far behind too many in the pecking order there. I'm not moving anyone of value out of there to accommodate him when he doesn't really demand it.
Him as a deep forward is a good option I think for the reasons outlined, but he'd really need to work on his finishing in front of goals and delivery to forwards if he gained possession further out. He just sprays way too many for my liking. For a supposed good user, results have shown he's fairly average. If he could clean that up a fair bit I think he'd be pretty good as a deep pressure forward.
 

Bulldogs Legend

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Would you do it and i am just spit balling here if it were a 700/200 split and Collingwood agreed to let us have home game status at the next few games until the cash difference in the contract is erased by profit and potentially a bit of interest coming our way. Nudge, nudge, wink, wink, know what i mean ?
You would consider it but the only problem would be how to keep them to a nudge nudge agreement that stretches into the future

You would need some sort of AFL involvement to keep it on the up and up otherwise in three years time after our three peat the Pies could reneg
 

Bulldogs Legend

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1. Collingwood have a contract with Treloar for 4.5m over 5 years (it’s the widely quoted number so let’s agree this is correct).

2. All the articles and journo tweets during and after trade period have said Treloar will get his full amount regardless of where it comes from.

3. You are arguing that we definitively, 100% have a contract with Treloar for $600k per year (I don’t think this has been reported anywhere)

Points 1 and 2 are the only things with any clarity in this whole saga.
If point 3 were true, then there is no dispute anywhere. He will get the remainder of his cash from Collingwood. The fact that there is a dispute means that point 3 isn’t fact
Point 3 was widely reported before and after the trade period
 

Bulldogs Legend

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Treloar's agent says we have agreed to $600k per annum - he seems just as adamant as we are about this. There is an agreement between us and Treloar even if a contract hasn't been signed yet. I'll bet that his agent signed the contract on trade day - he would have power of attorney to do that on behalf of Treloar. Either way, Treloar will be able to hold us to the agreement, as we will be able to hold him to it. This is Collingwood trying one over us. Look at Eddie's rationale for entering negotiations....we owe them from 1989 ffs!
Yep if Eddie had said we owe them for Gubby Allan passing it to the Pieman with less than a minute to go it would have been more credible
 
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With the new addition of players we got over the trade season, retaining our current players and also a proper offseason training together what’s everyone’s realistic pass park for next year...?
Mine is to finish 3rd to 5th and win 2 finals!!

To finish top 6 and win a final. I'll accept 7th or 8th with lots of injuries/important players out of form, but if we have no injuries and most players near their best form and don't get top 4 then I'll be disappointed.
 

Bulldogs Legend

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Do you mind pointing me in the direction of the comments from his manager - I don’t think he’s publicly spoken.

To go back to your original point, there is a dispute between us and Collingwood, which you’ve acknowledged on this post “Collingwood trying one over on us”.

You bet that a contract has been signed and you reckon it would be by his manager. There is a lot of assumptions to base your opinion on.

the whole saga is based on at least 2 (probably 3 and possibly 4) parties stuffing up. I wouldn’t be assuming anything as fact
But you appear to assume Powers incompetence over Guy
 

Bulldogs Legend

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I’m going with the tried and true method for reading a situation. AT is still liking dogs social media posts therefore I can confidently ascertain that the dogs are in the right and Collingwood have stuffed up.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com
What colour shorts did he have on?
 
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Here's the revised table. If you need a full explanation of how to read it and why the later picks jump around a bit, go to the Jamarra thread.

View attachment 1021270

tl;dr - we're all good!

EDIT: TBOW has picked up a small error: The table should show that we could match pick 50 (not 64) under scenario 1 and pick 26 (not 28) in scenario 2.

That is an awesome post dogwatch

Is there a rule that we must draft a player for every pick we use to match?

For example, if pick 1 is bid on JUH then we use 6 picks to match.

Means we select JUH, plus we must select 5 others in the draft?
 
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doggies ftw
I agree with you both on JJ. Makes total sense.
I agree with Boyd oh Boyd on Richards down back, he's just too far behind too many in the pecking order there. I'm not moving anyone of value out of there to accommodate him when he doesn't really demand it.
Him as a deep forward is a good option I think for the reasons outlined, but he'd really need to work on his finishing in front of goals and delivery to forwards if he gained possession further out. He just sprays way too many for my liking. For a supposed good user, results have shown he's fairly average. If he could clean that up a fair bit I think he'd be pretty good as a deep pressure forward.
Yeah his disposal and general composure really let him down this year, that’s why I want him either deep forward or half back. Didn’t seem to be an issue when he was half back in his first season. Really really poor this year though.

I really really like what Dureya brings but I think a backline with Doc, Croz, Wood, Williams along with a couple of talls is just a littttttle bit too predictable with the way they all bring the ball out of defence And doesn’t really suit our biggest strength which has been ball movement from the backline. Ideally Richards has a big preseason and forces his way in there to add a little point of difference and Doc is a fantastic back up for any of the other 4. I like having the triple threat of Daniel cutting you up with short targets, Williams/Croz with long raking kicks and a JJ/Richards type with speed, it’s hard to cover all avenues.

I know we all talk about having too many half backs but I wouldn’t be against drafting another speedster. Is McPherson this type?
 

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Interested to hear peoples thoughts on where we play JJ & Richards next season, I’d hope we decide on this early in the preseason and stick to it.

For mine JJ needs to play high half forward, he’s shown to be one of our best finishers inside 60 from the limited number of opportunities he gets, it remains to be seen but if he could keep that finishing efficiency with the much larger amount of looks he would get when playing permanently forward he could be a real weapon. He brings pace to the front half, he’s not a defensive tackling machine by any means but his pace defensively could be very good for us. Both in shutting down options for the oppo trying to exit but also the inferred pressure, it’ll take one bloke getting ran down by JJ before players start to think twice knowing they’ve got someone with his pace behind them.

I also think while he’s prone to turn overs coming out of defence he’s one of our best at delivering the ball inside 50. Not sure why that is maybe because usually you’re running at full tilt out of defence whereas you get the chance to slow down and assess your options coming into the forward line. Also it helps hide him from getting tagged out of the game. Yes he’ll have a defender playing direct on him but I feel it’d be harder for him being negated in the backline. You’ve got to physically go and get your own ball in the backline, not easy when someone’s job is to stop you doing that. Whereas in the forward line we’re trying to feed him the ball, he just has to get into space, easy when you’ve got the wheels he has. Plus you only need to get two good looks at goal before you’ve got 2goals on your opponent and you’re winning the battle and they have to change their approach, unlike the backline where it goes the other way.

Richards I see two options for, either deep pressure forward or HB. I don’t think he has the tank or smarts to play high forward. Just doesn’t seem to get near it, but I think he could be effective if we sat him at the feet of our talls inside 50. He’s shown he can kick a goal out of nothing, good at ground level, good in the air, strong tackler and elite speed. Could be an option.

I love a backline with Croz, Williams & Daniel but it’s lacking a bit of run with JJ moved out so I’d be moving Richards back to HB. He’s shown he can play it, I think he plays better there because i don’t believe he’s got a particularly great footy brain. I think making the game as simple as possible for him is the way to get the best out of him.

He’s very strong defensively and doesn’t lose many contests at ground level or in the air, just let him watch the game from behind the ball and let him try and run and hopefully dispose of the ball under less pressure than he would be further up the ground. His composure and skills under pressure are lacking so you hide this a bit at HB.
You might be on to something here especially if we could get JJ to up his tackling game. We know he loves a goal we should challenge him to up the pressure as well.
 

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You seem to have solved the whole problem Yojimbo on a doodle pad in your spare time, no Yojimbo i saw it on an episode of the Bill or Peaky Blinders which are both shows that deal in hearty AFL values of truth, honesty and wholesome goodness.
Thomas Shelby now there’s a list manager!
 

weltschmerz

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That is an awesome post dogwatch

Is there a rule that we must draft a player for every pick we use to match?

For example, if pick 1 is bid on JUH then we use 6 picks to match.

Means we select JUH, plus we must select 5 others in the draft?

No. Generally there's a rule that the number of picks we'd use to match can only be as high as the number of open list spots we have, but that doesn't apply this year.
 
That is an awesome post dogwatch

Is there a rule that we must draft a player for every pick we use to match?

For example, if pick 1 is bid on JUH then we use 6 picks to match.

Means we select JUH, plus we must select 5 others in the draft?
Is there a rule that we must draft a player for every pick we use to match?
Normally yes, but they've waived it for this year.
 

doggy_dog

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Thought this article about the superior athletic performance of younger siblings was interesting. (There are a few younger siblings available in the draft this year, aren't there?)
Thanks for sharing that, super interesting. I wonder if there are diminishing returns after a certain age gap. It would make sense to me that a sibling 2-years younger would be more challenged and be exposed to greater levels of informal activity than a sibling 10-years younger for example. The 8-year gap between the Macrae’s springs to mind
 
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