Strategy Trade and List management Thread Part 4 (opposition supporters - READ posting rules before posting)

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LittleG said:
Stringer is in a contract year. Buyer beware.
We like our midfielders to have the ability to pressure IF the other team wins the ball…. Stringer barely does this. He might look good with the ball BUT he isn’t a midfielder. We have been crying out for a highly skilled 3rd forward since he left. JUH has stepped up and I prefer JUH in that role.


Good luck to Stringer, happy he is still playing BUT glad he isn’t involved at our club.
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I like JUH but saying he has stepped up is a reach mate.

Kid has had one ok game against a pretty undermanned Suns team.

Id take Jake back in a heartbeat and I legitimately think in this team he would be unstoppable, won’t happen I know
 
dogwatch said:
With all the hand-wringing about needing a KPD other than Young or Cordy and a ruck other than Sweet surely an extra year on Jackson Trengove's contract would have been worthwhile?

Before you all pile on I do know that (a) Bevo didn't rate him for whatever reason (2) he would not be a star and (3) he would certainly not be a long term or even a medium term solution.

However consider that:
  • he is still only 31, not too old to play senior footy (that's 3 years younger than Martin BTW!)
  • he can ruck or play KPD or some combination of the two, both areas where we need reliable backup
  • he'd provide more flexibility in where we play English, at the very least be able to give him a ruck chop-out
  • he could take on the monster KPFs especially when we have two or more to deal with (eg Cameron and Hawkins)
  • he'd be insurance against a Keath injury (Dog forbid!)
  • he is strong, physically sound and tall (197) Cordy is only 193-ish
  • he would almost certainly be better than Cordy (on recent efforts) and more consistent than Young
  • he would allow Cordy or even Khamis to play as a third tall - we lack a genuine interceptor while Keath is forced to stay close to the big KPFs
  • he'd only be there until we found some better & younger replacement but, as many have lamented, there aren't all that many good ruck or KPD options out there right now
  • he'd be good for 2021, maybe even 2022 if we were still stuck
  • he would have been free (no trade cost)
  • he would have been on a minimal contract
Would it be any worse having him on our list playing VFL than someone like Will Hayes? If Gardner is still in rehab and / or Keath gets injured just before the finals and we have nobody to replace him I reckon we'll regret not still having Trengove.

Anyway that horse has now bolted. Just seems like a missed opportunity.
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I don't see it as any great loss and I sat through the games of English being slaughtered by every ruckman he came up against. However, it pretty clear that Beveridge chose the nuclear option of putting games into a raw English with a look towards the medium to long term. Its the same reason he went with an undersized Cordy and the unproven Young and Gardner as backups to the stellar recruitment of Keath. A player who's arrival all but sealed Trengoves fate.

The reality is that by the time we threw him a lifeline. Trengoves AFL career was already drawing to a close at Port due to injuries and being supplanted on their list by others. The way I remember him is as an undersized but battling ruck and as a fullback who was so slow to get the ball away by hand or foot that possessions were often then nullified by an inability to hit a target. I see why if indeed Beveridge was instrumental in his recruitment that he saw early that playing him was a dead end and that he should cut his loses. He just didn't fit in a side that is built around good disposal out of defence. Yes I am aware that this philosophy is flawed when we still have Zane Cordy in the side, who for all his many flaws can hit targets by foot. As long as its not beyond 35 metres.

If we are going to waste time and lament a player that should still be on the list. Iits the guy who shouldered much of the ruck work during our premiership. And Im not talking about Tom Boyd. This decision is one of many list management decisions that I got wrong in hindsight. I don't think I or indeed Luke Beveridge will have this issue with Trengove.

Then again maybe I will, as my track record is not great in this regard. I won't speak for Beveridge.
 
Norm De Guerre said:
I don't see it as any great loss and I sat through the games of English being slaughtered by every ruckman he came up against. However, it pretty clear that Beveridge chose the nuclear option of putting games into a raw English with a look towards the medium to long term. Its the same reason he went with an undersized Cordy and the unproven Young and Gardner as backups to the stellar recruitment of Keath. A player who's arrival all but sealed Trengoves fate.

The reality is that by the time we threw him a lifeline. Trengoves AFL career was already drawing to a close at Port due to injuries and being supplanted on their list by others. The way I remember him is as an undersized but battling ruck and as a fullback who was so slow to get the ball away by hand or foot that possessions were often then nullified by an inability to hit a target. I see why if indeed Beveridge was instrumental in his recruitment that he saw early that playing him was a dead end and that he should cut his loses. He just didn't fit in a side that is built around good disposal out of defence. Yes I am aware that this philosophy is flawed when we still have Zane Cordy in the side, who for all his many flaws can hit targets by foot. As long as its not beyond 35 metres.

If we are going to waste time and lament a player that should still be on the list. Iits the guy who shouldered much of the ruck work during our premiership. And Im not talking about Tom Boyd. This decision is one of many list management decisions that I got wrong in hindsight. I don't think I or indeed Luke Beveridge will have this issue with Trengove.

Then again maybe I will, as my track record is not great in this regard. I won't speak for Beveridge.
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All true but Roughead left three years ago. The list has changed enormously since then. Trengove was on our list up to the end of last season.

I also think his kicking got a bad rap - it was no worse than Cordy's - probably better IMO - but we'll never settle that argument.

I understand we expected to get more out of Stef Martin than we have so it was probably seen as an acceptable delisting but with 20/20 hindsight Trengove would have been a low cost insurance policy in an area of very little depth and quite a lot of exposure.

Now compare that to the role that Hayes plays ... I'm struggling to see what purpose that has served.
 

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Does anyone know the latest with McAsey? I know he re-signed but surely gettable still. Might not be the gun people thought he could be but our bar for KPD is low.

Rumours are Adelaide are interested in Dylan Stephens from Sydney who in turn were rumoured to be interested in Lipinski. Sure the 3-way trades rarely if ever happen and there may need to be some pick swaps but that’s a nice triangle of players giving their current team nothing but possibly useful elsewhere.
 
doggiesin08 said:
Does anyone know the latest with McAsey? I know he re-signed but surely gettable still. Might not be the gun people thought he could be but our bar for KPD is low.

Rumours are Adelaide are interested in Dylan Stephens from Sydney who in turn were rumoured to be interested in Lipinski. Sure the 3-way trades rarely if ever happen and there may need to be some pick swaps but that’s a nice triangle of players giving their current team nothing but possibly useful elsewhere.
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I find it a little odd that he still can’t get a game for Adelaide, hasn’t played one game all season.


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Mattdougie said:
I like JUH but saying he has stepped up is a reach mate.

Kid has had one ok game against a pretty undermanned Suns team.

Id take Jake back in a heartbeat and I legitimately think in this team he would be unstoppable, won’t happen I know
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I agree with you re; Jake being a weapon in our team but god he’s a flog mate. Our team is so socially tight at the moment and I just don’t see him fitting in again.

Also, Suns were down on players in other areas but arguably one of the strongest teams in terms of tall backs. Collins, Ballard and Lukosis are all awesome.
 
doggiesin08 said:
Does anyone know the latest with McAsey? I know he re-signed but surely gettable still. Might not be the gun people thought he could be but our bar for KPD is low.

Rumours are Adelaide are interested in Dylan Stephens from Sydney who in turn were rumoured to be interested in Lipinski. Sure the 3-way trades rarely if ever happen and there may need to be some pick swaps but that’s a nice triangle of players giving their current team nothing but possibly useful elsewhere.
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He’s not very good.
 
Anyone seen Josh Rachele play? Seems to be the most highly rated small forward in this years draft. Good enough for us to try and wiggle our way back into the first round?

Would he compliment Weightman?


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hatescaptcha said:
Anyone seen Josh Rachele play? Seems to be the most highly rated small forward in this years draft. Good enough for us to try and wiggle our way back into the first round?

Would he compliment Weightman?


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com
Click to expand...
"Nice hair, Flea"
 
Dale4captain said:
I agree with you re; Jake being a weapon in our team but god he’s a flog mate. Our team is so socially tight at the moment and I just don’t see him fitting in again.

Also, Suns were down on players in other areas but arguably one of the strongest teams in terms of tall backs. Collins, Ballard and Lukosis are all awesome.
Click to expand...

Suns defence is by far their strongest line. Throw Powell and Lemmens into the mix with those names you mentioned, it's a very strong group and not at all undermanned.
 
dogwatch said:
All true but Roughead left three years ago. The list has changed enormously since then. Trengove was on our list up to the end of last season.
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Sure, but given the entire discussion is based on hypotheticals and what perhaps should've happened. I don't think its a massive stretch.

dogwatch said:
I also think his kicking got a bad rap - it was no worse than Cordy's - probably better IMO - but we'll never settle that argument.
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No we won't. But I have distinct memories of how long it took Trengove to move the ball from full back and how often he flubbed the simplest of kicks.

Cordy has without doubt the ugliest kicking action in the game and we need to avoid situations where he is driving the ball out of defence. However, his kicking is generally effective when he doesn't try and bite off more than he can chew. Having said that there is no way we could carry both him and Cordy in the same side. Especially if we were forced to use them in the back half should calamity befall us and we lose Keath.

dogwatch said:
I understand we expected to get more out of Stef Martin than we have so it was probably seen as an acceptable delisting but with 20/20 hindsight Trengove would have been a low cost insurance policy in an area of very little depth and quite a lot of exposure.
Click to expand...

I don't think its really a question of hindsight. We went into the season with 3 potential ruck options. One we are clearly building the side around. A clapped out journeyman in the hope of getting the maximum number of games out of and a raw untried rookie of some potential. There comes a point where you need to draw the line, especially in a climate of reducing list sizes. If given the choice I suspect that any list manager would say that's enough insurance and take the punt on another draft pick. Rather than have that spot taken by a journeyman of limited means, who the Match Committee have shown zero faith in during times of dire need in the past.

dogwatch said:
Now compare that to the role that Hayes plays ... I'm struggling to see what purpose that has served.
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Why Hayes, why not compare his role to Roarke Smith, Lin Jong or any number of other developing midfield foot soldiers who realistically have a limited futures in the squad?

A fairer question is to compare the role or the list spot he would've taken when measured against the other KPD or rucks. For the life of me, I can't see how a 31 y.o with a limited skill set (as I saw it) is any improvement on any of the talls who would make way for him.
 
The bulldogs bigfooty posters that follow the dogs closely were just about 100% in agreement we needed another ruckman. I like a number said if we could get Goldstein we would be challenging for a flag. Not sure if we ever had a chance of getting him but do not think we even tried. We went for the cheaper option in Martin knowing he was a big injury risk. Early on in the the season it looked good but now it looks like it now maybe the difference between a flag and missing out by not having a competitive experienced ruckman to help English . If we could not have have got Goldstein was there other options say Sinclair from the Swans.
 

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Optimistic Dog said:
The bulldogs bigfooty posters that follow the dogs closely were just about 100% in agreement we needed another ruckman. I like a number said if we could get Goldstein we would be challenging for a flag. Not sure if we ever had a chance of getting him but do not think we even tried. We went for the cheaper option in Martin knowing he was a big injury risk. Early on in the the season it looked good but now it looks like it now maybe the difference between a flag and missing out by not having a competitive experienced ruckman to help English . If we could not have have got Goldstein was there other options say Sinclair from the Swans.
Click to expand...

Interestingly, the best option we could have got last year was Hickey - he's been fantastic for Sydney this season....
 
Optimistic Dog said:
The bulldogs bigfooty posters that follow the dogs closely were just about 100% in agreement we needed another ruckman. I like a number said if we could get Goldstein we would be challenging for a flag. Not sure if we ever had a chance of getting him but do not think we even tried. We went for the cheaper option in Martin knowing he was a big injury risk. Early on in the the season it looked good but now it looks like it now maybe the difference between a flag and missing out by not having a competitive experienced ruckman to help English . If we could not have have got Goldstein was there other options say Sinclair from the Swans.
Click to expand...
Pretty sure there was indication that we chased a number of rucks last year. Swear I saw somewhere that we were told no by both Goldstein and McEvoy

Sinclair is a good ruck but he's very injury prone
 
Virgin Dog said:
Pretty sure there was indication that we chased a number of rucks last year. Swear I saw somewhere that we were told no by both Goldstein and McEvoy

Sinclair is a good ruck but he's very injury prone
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This is why I don't understand why we have this glut of midfielders on the list. We could easily put another ruck option in.

Take Hayes for example. He's not even in consideration for a midfield spot and currently we have Treloar, Dunkley and McLean unavailable and Lipinski and West ahead of him. Then you factor in Bev's preference of putting someone like Daniel, Williams in the midfield rotation if some of our mids are missing and instead having Richards replace them in the back half.

Midfield depth to the extent we have isn't required when we historically have pushed our wingman (Smith, Hunter) and half backs like Daniel into the rotation if need be.
 
Dogsman16 said:
This is why I don't understand why we have this glut of midfielders on the list. We could easily put another ruck option in.

Take Hayes for example. He's not even in consideration for a midfield spot and currently we have Treloar, Dunkley and McLean unavailable and Lipinski and West ahead of him. Then you factor in Bev's preference of putting someone like Daniel, Williams in the midfield rotation if some of our mids are missing and instead having Richards replace them in the back half.

Midfield depth to the extent we have isn't required when we historically have pushed our wingman (Smith, Hunter) and half backs like Daniel into the rotation if need be.
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I definitely don't disagree re: Hayes. Even add Cavarra to that list - we don't seem to favour him for a spot in the 22, but have continued to recruit players like McNeil, Garcia and Vandermeer who are directly competing for that same spot. I expect both Hayes and Cavarra to be gone end of year, and hope we look to recruit a ruck like Ladhams (if off-field isn't an issue), Chol (if we think he's not Schache 2.0), etc. to fill that spot. I don't want us relying solely on Sweet who is so far entirely unproven.
 
Dogsman16 said:
This is why I don't understand why we have this glut of midfielders on the list. We could easily put another ruck option in.

Take Hayes for example. He's not even in consideration for a midfield spot and currently we have Treloar, Dunkley and McLean unavailable and Lipinski and West ahead of him. Then you factor in Bev's preference of putting someone like Daniel, Williams in the midfield rotation if some of our mids are missing and instead having Richards replace them in the back half.

Midfield depth to the extent we have isn't required when we historically have pushed our wingman (Smith, Hunter) and half backs like Daniel into the rotation if need be.
Click to expand...
When you have the opportunity to pay a gun like Treloar a two-thirds salary, you do it, irrespective of glut, fit, balance etc.
 
Virgin Dog said:
Pretty sure there was indication that we chased a number of rucks last year. Swear I saw somewhere that we were told no by both Goldstein and McEvoy

Sinclair is a good ruck but he's very injury prone
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Yeah we definitely went after McEvoy, big season he stayed at Hawthorn was because they offered him captaincy.
 
Libbaaaa said:
Agreed, he made $1.5m over the last 3 years of his solid career. He should hold no grudges against the Dogs or Bevo.
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Just found this pic...
Trenners and Bevo seem to have been reasonably friendly!

1626762526905.jpeg
 
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