Strategy Trade and List management Thread Part 4 (opposition supporters - READ posting rules before posting)

[Northernsoul74]

Who on here has seen Darcy play in the last two years?

I mean how many great games has he played and against who and what league?

Most of the junior footy in Victoria hasn’t transpired.

That pick 17 might deliver us a ready made player and a flag next year.

I don’t care about 5 years time when Darcy may be ready. The cycle suggests we will be at the other end of the ladder then.

We have the team now to compete again.

Maybe I will have egg on my face. But I’m not really interested in Darcy IF we can use that pick 17 to recruit a ready made good quality ruck now.

It’s a fair point but Darcy must have done something to go from a rookie chance to a likely number 2 pick within 9 months.

 

[doggy heaven]

Who on here has seen Darcy play in the last two years?

I mean how many great games has he played and against who and what league?

Most of the junior footy in Victoria hasn’t transpired.

That pick 17 might deliver us a ready made player and a flag next year.

I don’t care about 5 years time when Darcy may be ready. The cycle suggests we will be at the other end of the ladder then.

We have the team now to compete again.

Maybe I will have egg on my face. But I’m not really interested in Darcy IF we can use that pick 17 to recruit a ready made good quality ruck now.

Good Point
It seems we love the romance of a father and son. Other than Libba what other good one do we have. Let Darcy go. Just hasnt played enough.

 

[doggy heaven]

It’s a fair point but Darcy must have done something to go from a rookie chance to a likely number 2 pick within 9 months.

His old man knows people. No other reason. No games played

 

[doggiesin08]

I think if you've made the GF and can still get access to a top 3 prospect, you take them. When you can take a 204cm utility that every other team would wants, you take them.

Agree. It's almost a no-brainer with the 20% discount for father-sons plus they extra 30-40% effective through pick swaps (i.e. we are all expecting to turn our 1,025 points from Pick #17 into 1400+ points).

For the topic of trading back into the first round. Lions need picks next year for a F/S next year so if dogs can get a bunch of future picks through their trades then they can trade that for Lions pick 18.

Others have said he's unlikely to be available but I'd go for Payne again using our future first as the carrot to Brisbane. The bloke wasn't in their best 22 for their first final and only came in against us to play as a key forward. Andrews is only 24 and has a lock on their FB spot for them.

My aggressive trading wish. I'm probably a little too optimistic on all and haven't thought of the salary cap.

• Trade 1: Patrick Lipinski for Collingwood 2022 3rd Rounder
• Trade 2: Lewis Young for Carlton pick #63 and 2022 4th Rounder
• Trade 3: Bulldogs 2022 1st rounder + Collingwood 2022 3rd rounder for Jackson Payne, Pick #49 and Brisbane 2022 2nd Rounder. On 2021 finishing positions this values Payne at around pick #31 but if you add the extra 300-400 points they'll be able to extra from our 2022 1st rounder to get points to match a bid on Ashcroft its closer to pick #18-#20)
• Trade 4: Pick #17 + Pick #49 for Peter Ladhams, Pick #62 and Port's 2022 2nd Rounder

That leaves us with Picks #62 and #63 (235 points combined) plus a draft deficit cap of 1,783 points (3 x 502 points for future 2nds + 1 x 220 points for future 3rd + 3 x 19 points for future 4ths). Gives us total points of 2,018 points vs 2,014 required to cover a bid at pick #2.

 

[The Inbetweener]

I am probably in the minority but my view is that we should be targeting players who will help us win the flag in 2022 and/or 2023.

Our core midfield (our strongest line) will peak over the next 2 or 3 years (Treloar (28), Libba (29), Macrae (27), Bont (25), Dunkley (24), Smith (20)). Those ages are current and not next year when we play next.

I am happy to pass on Darcy as he will not contribute to our goal of winning a flag next year.

IMO the draft this year is a massive lucky dip anyway given the lack of exposed form in Victoria over the last 2 years.

We should be using pick 17, and any picks we obtain for Lip, Wallis, Young etc. to strengthen our list in the form of a genuine ready ruck and a key position defender.

Now is not the time to be drafting 18 year old key position players. Now is the time to be drafting for another tilt at the premiership.

I’m happy to go down the Geelong path for a year or two (not 5 years like they did!)

I agree 100% about going for now, except for passing on Darcy. If we bring our 2022 2nd into this draft, that and what we get for 17 will be enough for Darcy. Trading pick 17 and 36 (if we were to win the flag next year) for pick 3 in the draft is the sort of business you just have to do.

I agree with the sentiment though - put everything into finding a ruck, even if it means paying over.

Our time is now, I think our window is a little shorter than what people tend to think. 2-3 years maximum. Need to win at least one flag and we just gave up
a genuine opportunity last week.

 

[Pocket Terrace]

Good Point
It seems we love the romance of a father and son. Other than Libba what other good one do we have. Let Darcy go. Just hasnt played enough.

Is this serious? Mark Hunter’s boy goes alright.

 

[dull_high_ahoy]

Reckon we'll have any dogs news tomorrow?

 

[cleveland]

* me we need some rumours haha

 

[Pocket Terrace]

His old man knows people. No other reason. No games played

So I guess Darcy’s Vic Metro teammate Nick Daicos is only rated because his Dad knows people. No games played. Must be a dud.

 

[doggy_dog]

I am probably in the minority but my view is that we should be targeting players who will help us win the flag in 2022 and/or 2023.

Our core midfield (our strongest line) will peak over the next 2 or 3 years (Treloar (28), Libba (29), Macrae (27), Bont (25), Dunkley (24), Smith (20)). Those ages are current and not next year when we play next.

I am happy to pass on Darcy as he will not contribute to our goal of winning a flag next year.

IMO the draft this year is a massive lucky dip anyway given the lack of exposed form in Victoria over the last 2 years.

We should be using pick 17, and any picks we obtain for Lip, Wallis, Young etc. to strengthen our list in the form of a genuine ready ruck and a key position defender.

Now is not the time to be drafting 18 year old key position players. Now is the time to be drafting for another tilt at the premiership.

I’m happy to go down the Geelong path for a year or two (not 5 years like they did!)

We could use our first to trade for a player and still get Darcy by copping a deficit next year. You need to realise how big of a gift it is having access to him

 

[Wetdog]

I couldn't handle a third generation of Darcy running around for the Great Waste.

I love the father-son rule and I want another Luke Darcy too.

But the Club is bigger than any individual and I think we should be recruiting for the now.

Just my opinion. Maybe Darcy will be a star. But I seriously doubt he contributes to us winning a flag with this current midfield at its peak.

If we lose a final next year because we got dominated in the ruck, Darcy developing in the VFL will be no consolation for me. I will be spewing.

 

[weltschmerz]

I love the father-son rule and I want another Luke Darcy too.

But the Club is bigger than any individual and I think we should be recruiting for the now.

Just my opinion. Maybe Darcy will be a star. But I seriously doubt he contributes to us winning a flag with this current midfield at its peak.

If we lose a final next year because we got dominated in the ruck, Darcy developing in the VFL will be no consolation for me. I will be spewing.

And you wouldn't be spewing if Alex Keath retires in a few years and we don't have Darcy to step into his role?

 

[Pocket Terrace]

I love the father-son rule and I want another Luke Darcy too.

But the Club is bigger than any individual and I think we should be recruiting for the now.

Just my opinion. Maybe Darcy will be a star. But I seriously doubt he contributes to us winning a flag with this current midfield at its peak.

If we lose a final next year because we got dominated in the ruck, Darcy developing in the VFL will be no consolation for me. I will be spewing.

I get what you’re saying, but I don’t consider the two to be linked. Issues with our ruck stem from quite a few years back and the fact that English is yet to show he can be that no 1 ruck. I don’t think list management issues stemming from the past few years should mean we give up this unique chance with Darcy.

As an aside, the irony in all of this is finally having a really good side without a decent ruck. Schultz, Round, Dempsey and Wynd all played in low sides at various stages of their careers. We’d kill to have one of them now!

 

[Mutt]

I love the father-son rule and I want another Luke Darcy too.

But the Club is bigger than any individual and I think we should be recruiting for the now.

Just my opinion. Maybe Darcy will be a star. But I seriously doubt he contributes to us winning a flag with this current midfield at its peak.

If we lose a final next year because we got dominated in the ruck, Darcy developing in the VFL will be no consolation for me. I will be spewing.

Pick 17 is worth far less this year than most years because many draft prospects remain somewhat unknown prospects. Nobody is going to trade us a difference-making senior player for pick 17. We know more about Darcy than anyone knows about most prospects...if the club rates him we should use pick 17 to select him. This really is the worst year to be doing what you propose.

 

[Wetdog]

And you wouldn't be spewing if Alex Keath retires in a few years and we don't have Darcy to step into his role?

I’m prepared to take that gamble if pick 17 helps us get the players we need to win a flag next year.

It’s not often that you go into a season with a legitimate chance, so I just want to maximise that chance and I concede that it might be at the expense of the future.

 

[weltschmerz]

Darcy's been talked up since he was 13. In a few years, he has every chance of being an excellent player in positions that we need. If we decide that one year is more important than the decade after that, and watch him become a great KPP/ruck elsewhere while we flounder, we'll all be calling for blood.

We're not going to get a top quality ruck even if we bankrupt ourselves for the next three years. They're not on offer. We can get someone who'll offer a competition and still get Darcy, but it's not a "great ruck or Darcy" choice here.

 

[Wetdog]

I get what you’re saying, but I don’t consider the two to be linked. Issues with our ruck stem from quite a few years back and the fact that English is yet to show he can be that no 1 ruck. I don’t think list management issues stemming from the past few years should mean we give up this unique chance with Darcy.

As an aside, the irony in all of this is finally having a really good side without a decent ruck. Schultz, Round, Dempsey and Wynd all played in low sides at various stages of their careers. We’d kill to have one of them now!

Your second paragraph is sort of my point. Even if Darcy is a gun ruck, he may be a gun in a poor team in 5 years. Back to the future for us?

I would rather use that pick now to secure a good ruck in his prime who can play in a very good team next year. If that’s possible. I don’t know if it is.

I know I’m in the minority on here. And I may well have egg on my face in a few years time with Darcy.

 

[mattwa]

You don't trade out of the opportunity to get a number 3 pick. It allows us to set up for a period of sustained success with him and marra

 

[Wetdog]

Darcy's been talked up since he was 13. In a few years, he has every chance of being an excellent player in positions that we need. If we decide that one year is more important than the decade after that, and watch him become a great KPP/ruck elsewhere while we flounder, we'll all be calling for blood.

We're not going to get a top quality ruck even if we bankrupt ourselves for the next three years. They're not on offer. We can get someone who'll offer a competition and still get Darcy, but it's not a "great ruck or Darcy" choice here.

Talk and expeditions are just that.

To be honest I don’t think you can say that no top quality rucks are on offer. You need to work in the industry and plenty of players get dislodged year after year unexpectedly. We don’t know what’s out there.

I trust and have faith in Sam Power, although the reality is that Darcy being on the board would cast a pretty big shadow.

 

[Wetdog]

Maybe we will secure Darcy and win the flag next year/year after or whatever, and Darcy will be a gun.

Happy to be wrong. Hope the club and our players do well no matter what.

My view is that we need a good ruck to win a flag next year. Even in 2016 Roughead and TBoyd proved that when they were in career best form during the finals.

 

[Northernsoul74]

Maybe we will secure Darcy and win the flag next year/year after or whatever, and Darcy will be a gun.

Happy to be wrong. Hope the club and our players do well no matter what.

My view is that we need a good ruck to win a flag next year. Even in 2016 Roughead and TBoyd proved that when they were in career best form during the finals.

Let’s say we pass on Darcy as you suggest. Who is this good ruck you think we can prise out with that pick 17? I think any ruck we can get in this year is going to be an underwhelming journeyman type so I don’t see it linked to taking Darcy.

 

[Barking Mad]

Good Point
It seems we love the romance of a father and son. Other than Libba what other good one do we have. Let Darcy go. Just hasnt played enough.

Yes Libba, but Hunter hasnt been shabby and Wally very serviceable. Zaine Cordy is a premiership player (kicked 2) and has been far more than a list clogger.
we let D Mac slide and he hasn’t done a heap. Let Foster slide and proved correct. Jury out on West still. Ayce was disappointing but now and then showed he wasn’t an absolute muppet.
mighta been easier mentioning where we failed as the list is far smaller. Surely you wouldn’t include Teddy Jr.

min saying that, I agree we should chose wisely with them.with Darcy we may end up with a key bacon years to come. Keith is no spring chicken and Gardner needs to continue his growth. 6-7 kegs a year and he may be a super mobile ruck and the envy of others. Need to trust Sammy.

 

[Wetdog]

Let’s say we pass on Darcy as you suggest. Who is this good ruck you think we can prise out with that pick 17? I think any ruck we can get in this year is going to be an underwhelming journeyman type so I don’t see it linked to taking Darcy.

The trade period is before the draft. Not the other way around. We don’t need to pass on Darcy first.

Obviously I don’t have the intel that those who work in the industry do.

All I’m saying is that (if it was my call) I would say to Power go out there and use pick 17 and other picks to secure a good ready made ruck who will help us win a flag in 2022.

If it becomes apparent that there isn’t one after all your enquires, then by all means change strategy and use it for a ready made good KPD or Darcy.

 

[Deadly Darcy]

fu** me we need some rumours haha

Bailey Smith has been offered $3.6 million over 4 years to go to Essendon …..





…….there’s a special rumour just for you, feel better now??

 

[Barking Mad]

It’s a fair point but Darcy must have done something to go from a rookie chance to a likely number 2 pick within 9 months.

Kicked 6 in a game and small sample size for media to speculate on. Worst 6 he could have kicked. Now with media beat up he gets bid on early just to ensure we have nothing next year also.
Recruiters at club will know what they think he’s worth