Strategy Trade and List management Thread Part 4 (opposition supporters - READ posting rules before posting)

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Mofra said:
Digging a little deeper, there were 7 rucks taken at the mid-season draft. Unlike past years the 'state league ruck talent' pool just isn't available to us as any remotely decent option is already tied to an opposition club.

A month ago our ruck stocks would look 'substantially different' in 2022, now we're 'happy with what we have'.
That's quite the turnaround from the club - with zero explanation.
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And we only offered Sweet a 1 year extension which was only increased to 2 years because there was interest from others. The club mustnt rate him too much if he wasn't played last year despite circumstances and then only offered a 1 year deal
 

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Our rucks are more depleted as Young has departed. I thought he showed some promise. Needed a full preseason learning the craft and putting on some size but I feel he had more upside than Sweet.

anyway you look at it, it is a massive fail on our list management strategy. Time will telll whether this will cost us a flag or not, but if Martin does not get on the park and one of Tim or Sweety get injured we are in trouble.

Bevo probably Still thinking they will change the 3rd man ruck rule And sallow it again. Just imagined if they changed it 1 year earlier.
 
Maverick Dog said:
If he is able to get on the park and stay on it is a major upgrade on Cords and Gards.

also if we cannot get anyone else we might as well get BTC back. He is still a significant better ruckman and fwd than Sweety and gave him a bath last season.
Click to expand...
Quality guy, really good with the kids. I'd be happy to have BTC on the rookie list.
 
Maverick Dog said:
Our rucks are more depleted as Young has departed. I thought he showed some promise. Needed a full preseason learning the craft and putting on some size but I feel he had more upside than Sweet.

anyway you look at it, it is a massive fail on our list management strategy. Time will telll whether this will cost us a flag or not, but if Martin does not get on the park and one of Tim or Sweety get injured we are in trouble.

Bevo probably Still thinking they will change the 3rd man ruck rule And sallow it again. Just imagined if they changed it 1 year earlier.
Click to expand...
English had a poor GF but showed significant improvement and will continue to improve, Sweet showed some promise in the 2's when it was on and was decent up until the Melbourne game, Another pre season into both will only see improvment. Stef can get some rest into his body but can play more of a Mumford role. Darcy is the big unknown. I would also suggest we will rookie list or pick up a state league/younger ruckman
 
I would give Sam Reid a go. Third generation Dog. Why not?
 
ummmbont said:
I don’t think we have ever been as tall in our history
English- 207cm
Darcy-206cm
Sweet-205cm
Schache-201cm
Martin-198cm
Marra-197cm
Naughton 195cm
Gardner-197
Kieth-198cm

Just under them you have
Bruce
Obrian
Cordy
Kharmis
Bendendo

Our list is actually very tall.
Click to expand...
A fair bit of quality too, unlike in previous years. Naughton and Bruce had great years, Schache looks like he’s turning the corner and JUH and Darcy look serious talents. We just have no standout ruck and need someone to make the 2nd tall back their own.
 
Mofra said:
Digging a little deeper, there were 7 rucks taken at the mid-season draft. Unlike past years the 'state league ruck talent' pool just isn't available to us as any remotely decent option is already tied to an opposition club.

A month ago our ruck stocks would look 'substantially different' in 2022, now we're 'happy with what we have'.
That's quite the turnaround from the club - with zero explanation.
Click to expand...

I've already posted a number of times about the ruck situation, so my apologies for another - last one I promise (maybe!).

Couldn't agree more. If they hadn't said publicly it would look different then we may not like it but at least it wouldn't give fodder to us - and likely what passes for AFL "journalists" - to keep bringing it up. To effectively admit it's a glaring weakness and then appear to not address it is a fairly ordinary look for the club, no matter how difficult it is to actually get someone in who would make a difference.

It all feels a bit like gaslighting, which is obviously hyperbolic but it's in that ballpark. Feels like we were forced into a Sweet extension too because there was some interest (as others have said), so it's not like he was seen as our future ruck saviour.

Power, Bevo and the club in general have done many things to put the team in a position to succeed, and should continue to be lauded for that. There's not an assembly line of AFL standard rucks so it's not easy to address. But this is a significant blind spot, and there's a decent chance it has a negative effect on our season.
 
hutchy31 said:
I've already posted a number of times about the ruck situation, so my apologies for another - last one I promise (maybe!).

Couldn't agree more. If they hadn't said publicly it would look different then we may not like it but at least it wouldn't give fodder to us - and likely what passes for AFL "journalists" - to keep bringing it up. To effectively admit it's a glaring weakness and then appear to not address it is a fairly ordinary look for the club, no matter how difficult it is to actually get someone in who would make a difference.

It all feels a bit like gaslighting, which is obviously hyperbolic but it's in that ballpark. Feels like we were forced into a Sweet extension too because there was some interest (as others have said), so it's not like he was seen as our future ruck saviour.

Power, Bevo and the club in general have done many things to put the team in a position to succeed, and should continue to be lauded for that. There's not an assembly line of AFL standard rucks so it's not easy to address. But this is a significant blind spot, and there's a decent chance it has a negative effect on our season.
Click to expand...

So let's just say we think Cox will be handy and allow English to play forward and give us more flexibility. We offer him two years and play him solely in the ruck. Collingwood don't really seem to want him.
 

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With how Bev values rucks, I think it could be a safe bet that we won’t pick anyone else up.

Sweet + Martin on the list as rucks.We may as well count Tim as a third because I doubt Bev will ever truly give up on that. Drafting Darcy who may be a ruck. O’Brien has had some ruck stints. He also has no qualms playing Hannan or Bont/Dunks in there.

I’m sure there was recognition that it’s a weakness, and that we tried to get someone that (importantly) Bev would actually play. Of course the ruck “coverage” I described above is a bit of a joke. Just wouldn’t surprise me if Bev thought it was plenty and would not want to use a list spot on another, and that Sweet got his deal perhaps only because our plans fell through.

I’m sure there may be one out there that might make us better in an area of clear need, but it’s all moot if Bev doesn’t rate them. See Trengove. Was a waste of time, money and a list spot in the end. I’m sure that outcome factored into Bev not ‘settling’ for just any ruck.

it’s just crazy to me that Bev would put his eggs in the Sweet basket when he was playing Young over him. Young was pretty ineffective and only served as fodder to take hits so Tim could ruck late in the game. Can they be truly confident that one preseason takes Sweet from where Bev rates him now, to being our first ruck? That’s worlds apart.

Makes me wonder if Tim is our first choice ruck next year. Assuming Martin is only available as much as he was (or less) this year, that is.

Next year we can move more freely in the trade period and probably successfully get a ruck then with more assets available. But it’s such a big risk, in our premiership window, to be hoping that one of English or Sweet suddenly becomes our great hope over one preseason.

Hope I’m wrong and we pick someone else up as another option/insurance. Would be out of character if we did though.
 
Unorth said:
With how Bev values rucks, I think it could be a safe bet that we won’t pick anyone else up.

Sweet + Martin on the list as rucks.We may as well count Tim as a third because I doubt Bev will ever truly give up on that. Drafting Darcy who may be a ruck. O’Brien has had some ruck stints. He also has no qualms playing Hannan or Bont/Dunks in there.

I’m sure there was recognition that it’s a weakness, and that we tried to get someone that (importantly) Bev would actually play. Of course the ruck “coverage” I described above is a bit of a joke. Just wouldn’t surprise me if Bev thought it was plenty and would not want to use a list spot on another, and that Sweet got his deal perhaps only because our plans fell through.

I’m sure there may be one out there that might make us better in an area of clear need, but it’s all moot if Bev doesn’t rate them. See Trengove. Was a waste of time, money and a list spot in the end. I’m sure that outcome factored into Bev not ‘settling’ for just any ruck.

it’s just crazy to me that Bev would put his eggs in the Sweet basket when he was playing Young over him. Young was pretty ineffective and only served as fodder to take hits so Tim could ruck late in the game. Can they be truly confident that one preseason takes Sweet from where Bev rates him now, to being our first ruck? That’s worlds apart.

Makes me wonder if Tim is our first choice ruck next year. Assuming Martin is only available as much as he was (or less) this year, that is.

Next year we can move more freely in the trade period and probably successfully get a ruck then with more assets available. But it’s such a big risk, in our premiership window, to be hoping that one of English or Sweet suddenly becomes our great hope over one preseason.

Hope I’m wrong and we pick someone else up as another option/insurance. Would be out of character if we did though.
Click to expand...

We just need a competitive ruck. Just give our mids a fighting chance.
 
hutchy31 said:
I've already posted a number of times about the ruck situation, so my apologies for another - last one I promise (maybe!).

Couldn't agree more. If they hadn't said publicly it would look different then we may not like it but at least it wouldn't give fodder to us - and likely what passes for AFL "journalists" - to keep bringing it up. To effectively admit it's a glaring weakness and then appear to not address it is a fairly ordinary look for the club, no matter how difficult it is to actually get someone in who would make a difference.

It all feels a bit like gaslighting, which is obviously hyperbolic but it's in that ballpark. Feels like we were forced into a Sweet extension too because there was some interest (as others have said), so it's not like he was seen as our future ruck saviour.

Power, Bevo and the club in general have done many things to put the team in a position to succeed, and should continue to be lauded for that. There's not an assembly line of AFL standard rucks so it's not easy to address. But this is a significant blind spot, and there's a decent chance it has a negative effect on our season.
Click to expand...
We were 16th for Avg H/O 14th for total H/O yet manged to be 1st for Clearances 4th avg Center Clearances (1st for total) im struggling to see why not getting a C grade ruckman makes us substantially worse off?
 
Unorth said:
With how Bev values rucks, I think it could be a safe bet that we won’t pick anyone else up.

Sweet + Martin on the list as rucks.We may as well count Tim as a third because I doubt Bev will ever truly give up on that. Drafting Darcy who may be a ruck. O’Brien has had some ruck stints. He also has no qualms playing Hannan or Bont/Dunks in there.

I’m sure there was recognition that it’s a weakness, and that we tried to get someone that (importantly) Bev would actually play. Of course the ruck “coverage” I described above is a bit of a joke. Just wouldn’t surprise me if Bev thought it was plenty and would not want to use a list spot on another, and that Sweet got his deal perhaps only because our plans fell through.

I’m sure there may be one out there that might make us better in an area of clear need, but it’s all moot if Bev doesn’t rate them. See Trengove. Was a waste of time, money and a list spot in the end. I’m sure that outcome factored into Bev not ‘settling’ for just any ruck.

it’s just crazy to me that Bev would put his eggs in the Sweet basket when he was playing Young over him. Young was pretty ineffective and only served as fodder to take hits so Tim could ruck late in the game. Can they be truly confident that one preseason takes Sweet from where Bev rates him now, to being our first ruck? That’s worlds apart.

Makes me wonder if Tim is our first choice ruck next year. Assuming Martin is only available as much as he was (or less) this year, that is.

Next year we can move more freely in the trade period and probably successfully get a ruck then with more assets available. But it’s such a big risk, in our premiership window, to be hoping that one of English or Sweet suddenly becomes our great hope over one preseason.

Hope I’m wrong and we pick someone else up as another option/insurance. Would be out of character if we did though.
Click to expand...
Sweet didn't have the tank. He should've been played more in season especially when Stef was down and no VFL to develop. He will develop further with another preseason under his belt as well as more consistent game time
 
Western Bulldogs
IN: Tim O’Brien (Hawthorn)

OUT: Patrick Lipinski (Collingwood), Lewis Young (Carlton)

PICKS: 23, 43, 44, 45, 52, 93

There was no last-minute Adam Treloar-like trade that consumed the Bulldogs in the final minutes of last year’s trade period. Early draft pick swaps garnered enough points to secure father-son pick Sam Darcy. This time around the Grand Final runners-up lost Patrick Lipinski and Lewis Young, both of whom were overlooked at crucial stages of the season, while bringing in Hawk Tim O’Brien. They managed to keep vice-captain Mitch Wallis (who has a new one-year deal) and Jordan Sweet (two seasons), the latter who attracted interest from a few rival clubs.

Expert Rating Glenn McFarlane 6.5 Avg Fan Rating 5

Meanwhile the Herald Sun's love affair with the Bombres continues, they did next to nothing, couldn't get a trade completed for Hill and get an 8 for bringing in Kelly !!

Essendon Bombers
IN: Jake Kelly (Ade)

OUT: None

PICKS: 11, 51, 56, 87

Improved its offer for Bobby Hill 48 hours from the deadline but were never going to sell the farm for him. A future-second-rounder for a forward who averaged nine possessions a game seemed about right, but GWS wasn’t interested. Still an excellent trade period as the Bombers snaffled underrated defender Jake Kelly for nothing. Watch the Bombers try to split pick 11 ahead of the draft.

Expert Rating Jay Clark 8 Avg Fan Rating 5.5
 
Dogs 13 said:
Western Bulldogs
IN: Tim O’Brien (Hawthorn)

OUT: Patrick Lipinski (Collingwood), Lewis Young (Carlton)

PICKS: 23, 43, 44, 45, 52, 93

There was no last-minute Adam Treloar-like trade that consumed the Bulldogs in the final minutes of last year’s trade period. Early draft pick swaps garnered enough points to secure father-son pick Sam Darcy. This time around the Grand Final runners-up lost Patrick Lipinski and Lewis Young, both of whom were overlooked at crucial stages of the season, while bringing in Hawk Tim O’Brien. They managed to keep vice-captain Mitch Wallis (who has a new one-year deal) and Jordan Sweet (two seasons), the latter who attracted interest from a few rival clubs.

Expert Rating Glenn McFarlane 6.5 Avg Fan Rating 5

Meanwhile the Herald Sun's love affair with the Bombres continues, they did next to nothing, couldn't get a trade completed for Hill and get an 8 for bringing in Kelly !!

Essendon Bombers
IN: Jake Kelly (Ade)

OUT: None

PICKS: 11, 51, 56, 87

Improved its offer for Bobby Hill 48 hours from the deadline but were never going to sell the farm for him. A future-second-rounder for a forward who averaged nine possessions a game seemed about right, but GWS wasn’t interested. Still an excellent trade period as the Bombers snaffled underrated defender Jake Kelly for nothing. Watch the Bombers try to split pick 11 ahead of the draft.

Expert Rating Jay Clark 8 Avg Fan Rating 5.5
Click to expand...
Hey didn't you know Dodo cant lose trade period
 
Dogs 13 said:
Western Bulldogs
IN: Tim O’Brien (Hawthorn)

OUT: Patrick Lipinski (Collingwood), Lewis Young (Carlton)

PICKS: 23, 43, 44, 45, 52, 93

There was no last-minute Adam Treloar-like trade that consumed the Bulldogs in the final minutes of last year’s trade period. Early draft pick swaps garnered enough points to secure father-son pick Sam Darcy. This time around the Grand Final runners-up lost Patrick Lipinski and Lewis Young, both of whom were overlooked at crucial stages of the season, while bringing in Hawk Tim O’Brien. They managed to keep vice-captain Mitch Wallis (who has a new one-year deal) and Jordan Sweet (two seasons), the latter who attracted interest from a few rival clubs.

Expert Rating Glenn McFarlane 6.5 Avg Fan Rating 5

Meanwhile the Herald Sun's love affair with the Bombres continues, they did next to nothing, couldn't get a trade completed for Hill and get an 8 for bringing in Kelly !!

Essendon Bombers
IN: Jake Kelly (Ade)

OUT: None

PICKS: 11, 51, 56, 87

Improved its offer for Bobby Hill 48 hours from the deadline but were never going to sell the farm for him. A future-second-rounder for a forward who averaged nine possessions a game seemed about right, but GWS wasn’t interested. Still an excellent trade period as the Bombers snaffled underrated defender Jake Kelly for nothing. Watch the Bombers try to split pick 11 ahead of the draft.

Expert Rating Jay Clark 8 Avg Fan Rating 5.5
Click to expand...

A guy who couldn’t get a game for a team that finished in the bottom 4 is sure to be a big win !!!
 
blagodellago said:
I’m very confident that Sweet knows EXACTLY what he needs to work on to be in the team. Hoping that his commitment to the club and the club’s commitment to him are good indicators that he can get there. My confidence in the people driving this club has never been higher.


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app
Click to expand...
Pretty sure running out a game is the biggest part of it. Hopefully a big preseason gets him to the level. He’s 23 and has played a lot of VFL footy so he should have a fair bit of work behind him now.
 
My opinion for what it’s worth. I think Sweet did well when he played this year and I think it’s fruitless trying to judge his development on the season just finished because the VFL was a right off and the continuity just wasn’t there for him and a lot of his team mates. Other clubs reportedly saw enough in him to enquire and the fact we’ve given him two years would suggest he’s rated highly internally. I’m guessing the guys available this trade period just didn’t offer enough of an improvement to warrant trading for them or the usual complexities were a limiting factor in getting it done. No point sitting here in October prophesying that the team will be weaker in 2022, because nobody knows that right now and all you do is subject yourself to unnecessary misery.
 
It would be nice if people would give Lewy and Lipi a bit more credit and respect for at least pulling on the jumper and doing their best for the club.
Lewy was thrown into the ruck, obviously not a position he is used to and I think did as well or better than Timmy did and enabled us to play him as a forward which helped us win a game or two.
 
Fossie 32 said:
It would be nice if people would give Lewy and Lipi a bit more credit and respect for at least pulling on the jumper and doing their best for the club.
Lewy was thrown into the ruck, obviously not a position he is used to and I think did as well or better than Timmy did and enabled us to play him as a forward which helped us win a game or two.
Click to expand...
To say he did as well as or better than Tim did is laughable. They did what they needed for the club both have clear deficiencies and are at other clubs now
 
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