Strategy Trade and List management Thread Part 4 (opposition supporters - READ posting rules before posting)

[TBOW]

This is exactly what I heard from within the club. If we had brought in an A grade youngish ruckman then English would 100% leave to go home. He wants to be the #1 ruckman.

Glad to hear this.
It is what we need him to be.

 

[Golden_6]

If English wants to be the number one ruck then that’s completely fine with me. It’s his last chance though, if he can’t hold down ruck contests adequately next year then that ship has sailed.

He’s been the number one ruck in most games he’s played for 3 seasons now, he’ll be nearly 25 and his weight is a complete non issue these days.

If we decide to play him as the number one, the bigger issue is who backs him up. Naughton, JUH & Schache should all not spend any time at centre bounces for a variety of reasons and there’s no clear option until Bruce is back.

 

[Generation West]

He’s no world beater but he still had 17 touches, 6 clearances, 3 contested marks and 34 hitouts against English & Young’s combined 14 hit outs…

I prefer the eye test to stats.
Just don’t rate this bloke as a quality AFL footballer.
Given the choice, I would take Sweet as no 1 ruck, English as no 2, followed by Martin and then Ceglar. Granted the coach saw it differently this year.
If we are bringing a 4th ruck option on to our list, I want someone youngish with size, talent and upside, not an established, soon to be 31 year old journeyman.
Could accept it last year before we got Martin, but having 2 ruckman on the list north of 30 with limited ability is irresponsible list management.

 

[Dogsman16]

I prefer the eye test to stats.
Just don’t rate this bloke as a quality AFL footballer.
Given the choice, I would take Sweet as no 1 ruck, English as no 2, followed by Martin and then Ceglar. Granted the coach saw it differently this year.
If we are bringing a 4th ruck option on to our list, I want someone youngish with size, talent and upside, not an established, soon to be 31 year old journeyman.
Could accept it last year before we got Martin, but having 2 ruckman on the list north of 30 with limited ability is irresponsible list management.

Well the eye test is that we got absolutely smashed in the ruck in the last 3 games and it cost us a top 4 spot. Consequently we had to play a game in heavy conditions in launceston, then another brutal game in brisbane which resulted in injuries to Weightman, Keath and almost led to Bont missing the prelim.

Sweet got absolutely smashed not only in regular AFL games but also in some VFL games. Tom Campbell gave him an absolute bath in one of those games.

Ceglar had some pretty good games in the last 3 rounds. He did lose 31-21 hitouts to Grundy (41-35 overall so not a smashing), but got 20 disposals, 3 contested marks and 8 clearances. He gave Coleman Jones an absolute bath in rd23 and it was an ocean sized bath he gave us in rd 22.

Ceglar currently is better than any current ruck we have and by some distance. Unless Stef Martin is able to reverse time and be 28 years old again.

 

[Mutt]

I'm more than a little disappointed that we didn't land a good, youngish ruckman (excepting perhaps Darcy) but that ship has now sailed.

Rather than endless teeth-gnashing over it, I'm going to look forward to English and Sweet developing into a genuinely good ruck duo. I'm backing them in to get there provided that the match committee selects them and plays them in the appropriate roles so they can develop. I don't want too much short-term thinking and team selection in the ruck...let's get 100% behind Tim and Jordan and leave them both in the team and rucking come hell or high water. Martin to play only to cover injuries or a catastrophic form problem for either Sweet or English.

 

[bobs head soup]

Been offline for a bit. Any thoughts on our Ruck situation?

 

[Northernsoul74]

This is exactly what I heard from within the club. If we had brought in an A grade youngish ruckman then English would 100% leave to go home. He wants to be the #1 ruckman.

Very interesting. Ultimately I suspect that’s what the club wants/hopes as well but he’s taking way longer than anyone would have thought.

 

[Dogs_r_barking]

He’s no world beater but he still had 17 touches, 6 clearances, 3 contested marks and 34 hitouts against English & Young’s combined 14 hit outs…

Reading the Geelong Addy today, Ceglar states he was persuaded all year to come to Geelong by his good mate Isaac Smith.

You keep assuming the club was at fault, maybe he just didn’t want to play for the Dogs.

 

[Dogs_r_barking]

I'm more than a little disappointed that we didn't land a good, youngish ruckman (excepting perhaps Darcy) but that ship has now sailed.

Rather than endless teeth-gnashing over it, I'm going to look forward to English and Sweet developing into a genuinely good ruck duo. I'm backing them in to get there provided that the match committee selects them and plays them in the appropriate roles so they can develop. I don't want too much short-term thinking and team selection in the ruck...let's get 100% behind Tim and Jordan and leave them both in the team and rucking come hell or high water. Martin to play only to cover injuries or a catastrophic form problem for either Sweet or English.

I agree, it’s not like we didn’t have good ruck performances last year. Another year under English’s belt, make top four to cut out the travel, play home finals will give us a much better chance. The blow out in the score has cast a shadow over a really good year, once again playing against a stacked deck.

Any idea when McLean will be able to play, we know Bruce will be back later in the season,

 

[Norm De Guerre]

Reading the Geelong Addy today, Ceglar states he was persuaded all year to come to Geelong by his good mate Isaac Smith.

You keep assuming the club was at fault, maybe he just didn’t want to play for the Dogs.

What people keep assuming is that list management is easy, other people are cattle and if that person fills a need in our side then we should ignore their feels and press gang them into the team. You'd think that the Jade Rawlings experience would've dissuaded them of this notion, but its one that rears its ugly red head anytime a potential recruits name gets brought up here. Oh, he fits a need. Just get it done!

Reality says otherwise.

 

[adogsfan5]

Been offline for a bit. Any thoughts on our Ruck situation?

Not ideal. Would have liked to have nabbed one but I’ll back the club. The big one is Sweet. He needs a monster pre season. If his form in the vfl was indeed as bad as some are saying, I hope the club knows what they need to do to fix his issues.

 

[House_of_Dahl]

I'd hope Marra (a pick 1!) plays more often than not next year. Kinda negates all the stressing over who covers Bruce

 

[Generation West]

I'm more than a little disappointed that we didn't land a good, youngish ruckman (excepting perhaps Darcy) but that ship has now sailed.

Rather than endless teeth-gnashing over it, I'm going to look forward to English and Sweet developing into a genuinely good ruck duo. I'm backing them in to get there provided that the match committee selects them and plays them in the appropriate roles so they can develop. I don't want too much short-term thinking and team selection in the ruck...let's get 100% behind Tim and Jordan and leave them both in the team and rucking come hell or high water. Martin to play only to cover injuries or a catastrophic form problem for either Sweet or English.

Hallelujah brother.

 

[doggy_dog]

I'd hope Marra (a pick 1!) plays more often than not next year. Kinda negates all the stressing over who covers Bruce

Really hope so. If he can make as big of a jump next year as Weightman did this year, that will be huge for us

 

[Generation West]

Been offline for a bit. Any thoughts on our Ruck situation?

 

[doggies ftw]

Because we were using a barely passable Lewis Young and a post-injuries unfit Stef Martin during that stretch. We didn’t suddenly change English’s role to more ruck time because he was going great guns in there, it was literally only after Martin went down injured and Sweet proved to be not good enough. Even then, we only did it for Rds 14-21 before deciding we were better off using Young in there and moving English back to his forward/ruck role. Was that to replace Bruce? Probably. But that gets to the point - Bruce and Young won’t be there next year, so we’re starting next season already in Plan B.

I really hope English becomes a decent and competitive ruck next year, it would help us enormously. But is he more valuable in there or as a replacement for Bruce? I’d agree with the coaches and say the latter. Maybe JUH and Schache have enormous pre-seasons and become influential and consistent players, or Sweet/Martin stay on the park and overperform and it’s a moot point. I really hope any of those scenarios play out and my fears look misplaced in hindsight.

This is the thing, we all want it to play out well and as I’ve even said here there’s a good chance it does, I mean Timmy and Sweet are at that age they really should be coming adequate at least. But what we’re all complaining about is it’s just a big risk to pin all our hopes on it when we’re sitting in the peak of our window. Even if it does play out that way we’re not necessarily wrong for being disappointed we don’t have more coverage/options

 

[doggies ftw]

Opposition rucks (Draper, Ceglar and Lycett) all got coaches votes in all 3 of the rd 21-23 games.

People have short memories if they don't think our ruck stocks are a genuine problem. And yes it hasn't improved.

This is really all that needs to be said. Stats are one thing, hit out stats especially pretty irrelevant on paper but when 3 bottom to middle of the road ruckman are literally getting votes against you, well that’s a big big problem.

 

[doggies ftw]

This is exactly what I heard from within the club. If we had brought in an A grade youngish ruckman then English would 100% leave to go home. He wants to be the #1 ruckman.

This is really interesting, I’ve been assuming he’d want a number one ruck in to let him play where he’s played better football (and thus be more important/earn better money). This is great though I’m glad he wants to be the #1 guy, we all know how good he could be if he could even just break even in the actual ruck. But balls in his court it’s not like we haven’t given him opportunity he needs to step up.

If he wants to walk home because he’s got competition I’m not sure where he thinks he’s going because he’s not beating out Darcy at Freo, maybe post NicNat at WCE but they’re not usually ones to go after mediocre players and aren’t usually light on for salary cap space.

Schache forward/back up ruck isn’t really ideal for us though so I wonder how we play it, I think Sweet/Timmy 60/40 ruck/forward is the go for next year. I have no problem with Sweet sitting in the forward line for 20-25% of the game with Jamarra and Naughty around him.

The thing with Timmy is even if he becomes a good number 1 he will never be a 90% ruck guy needing a small chop out from a forward, he’d be at best a 60% guy still IMO which is fine because it still opens more opportunities meaning we can bring in either a first ruck, or a Forward/ruck to partner him and play alongside Naughty/Jamarra.

Could even be Darcy down the track, but whatever we do with Darcy I just want us to be consistent in our development, either we see him as a defender or a forward/ruck day one train him there. I don’t want an 18yo highly rated kid getting the Young treatment thrown around from defence to ruck to FF back to FB. Please don’t *ing do that with him!

 

[Al dente]

This is exactly what I heard from within the club. If we had brought in an A grade youngish ruckman then English would 100% leave to go home. He wants to be the #1 ruckman.

if thats the case, i wonder how he felt when Bevo, post the Hawks game, basically played anyone other than him as number 1 ruck. there must be some tension there.

A number 1 ruck doesnt have to be a star, but they must commit their body at all times. English doesnt do that. Bring back Bluey Hampshire

 

[Wetdog]

Can we retrospectively apply any of the points we gained to our GF score?

I know Darcy is more important, but just want to know for academic purposes.

 

[flipper83]

if thats the case, i wonder how he felt when Bevo, post the Hawks game, basically played anyone other than him as number 1 ruck. there must be some tension there.

A number 1 ruck doesnt have to be a star, but they must commit their body at all times. English doesnt do that. Bring back Bluey Hampshire

I think in 2020 they realised that the accumulated toll of being the number 1 ruck and doing so for large percentages of game time had a significant affect on Tim's body.
Martin was meant to reduce this load so it could be managed better but his injuries meant that Tim once again had to shoulder a lot of the burden. I think the plan was to lighten Tim's ruck load leading into finals to try to refresh him a bit.
The Bruce injury was another curveball that might have affected planning but I don't think that bevo doesn't view him as a competent ruck

 

[threenewpadlocks]

People are unironically putting "he's 24" and "last chance" in the same post here

 

[Dogs Rule]

What people keep assuming is that list management is easy, other people are cattle and if that person fills a need in our side then we should ignore their feels and press gang them into the team. You'd think that the Jade Rawlings experience would've dissuaded them of this notion, but its one that rears its ugly red head anytime a potential recruits name gets brought up here. Oh, he fits a need. Just get it done!

Reality says otherwise.

We also should've known that Ceglar fits the Cats Dads Army age profile beautifully. Delist and trade a 21 and 22 year old and pick up a 31 year old.

 

[doggies ftw]

People are unironically putting "he's 24" and "last chance" in the same post here

How long does he get to hold down first ruck? Everyone knows ruckman may not come good til late 20s, that doesn’t mean he can sit in the position wasting our prime years whilst he develops. If he fails to step up this year we need to fill the position. If that means he walks to WA to sit behind better ruckman well that’s too bad

 

[Dogs Rule]

I didn’t know he was third always thought second generation. Who was his grandfather?

Strong Dog bloodlines...

Sam Reid (born 27 December 1991) is an Australian rules footballer who plays for the Sydney Swans in the Australian Football League (AFL). He was drafted to Sydney with the 38th selection in the 2009 AFL draft,[1] becoming a third generation footballer at AFL/VFL level. His grandfather Bruce Reid seniorplayed for Footscray, his father Bruce Reid, for Footscray and Carlton[2] and his uncle John Reid for Melbourne, Footscray and Sydney. He is also the younger brother of Collingwood premiership player Ben Reid.[2][3]