Strategy Trade and List management Thread Part 4 (opposition supporters - READ posting rules before posting)

[VitalDread]

 

[Shacf501]

Look at the below link... it took max a while to get himself going. Plus, he had other ruckman around him supporting him. Yes Tim needs to get stronger or even adapt his ruck craft if he is going to be a number one ruckman. But, in terms of a typical ruckman he isn't that far behind in the stats and is ironically better around the ground possession wise at the same age.

AFL Tables - Max Gawn - Stats - Statistics

afltables.com

 

[doggies ftw]

Actually a really good well written article

 

[cherrypie]

Look at the below link... it took max a while to get himself going. Plus, he had other ruckman around him supporting him. Yes Tim needs to get stronger or even adapt his ruck craft if he is going to be a number one ruckman. But, in terms of a typical ruckman he isn't that far behind in the stats and is ironically better around the ground possession wise at the same age.

AFL Tables - Max Gawn - Stats - Statistics

afltables.com

I think English is an excellent second ruck/third forward but the Gawn comparison isn't really accurate at all. Gawn had 48 hitouts in his 13th game, Tims highest is just 37 after 69 games. The real reason that Gawn's development was delayed was due to his mutliple ACL injuries

 

[threenewpadlocks]

Has English even provably played better in games that he was a forward than in the ruck? I get that up forward a bad game is just disappearing rather than letting your opponent ruck dominate, and it's not as if English ever had a game where his direct opponent had 12 intercept possessions or whatever. But his very food games in the ruck are numerous, his very good games as a forward total one, the Ballarat v Brisbane game. He's arguably proven more effective inside 50 from the ruck pushing forward than starting out of there anyway.

 

[CDBulldog]

This is exactly what I heard from within the club. If we had brought in an A grade youngish ruckman then English would 100% leave to go home. He wants to be the #1 ruckman.

This makes too much sense for this to be posted here. I prefer the ranting from both sides of the ruck argument. I’ve made my opinion clear, barring fitness issues we will be fine in the ruck next year. Did anyone see the article on AFL today, English is comparatively ahead of where Gawn was at the same age and stage of their career. I’ve said this numerous times but I’ll be shocked if English is not one of the most valuable players in the comp in 3-4 years. Back him in. Sweet and English will be a dominant ruck combo and oppo supporters will be wondering why they don’t have the ruck stocks we have. May not be next year but that time is coming.

 

[0utsider]

This makes too much sense for this to be posted here. I prefer the ranting from both sides of the ruck argument. I’ve made my opinion clear, barring fitness issues we will be fine in the ruck next year. Did anyone see the article on AFL today, English is comparatively ahead of where Gawn was at the same age and stage of their career. I’ve said this numerous times but I’ll be shocked if English is not one of the most valuable players in the comp in 3-4 years. Back him in. Sweet and English will be a dominant ruck combo and oppo supporters will be wondering why they don’t have the ruck stocks we have. May not be next year but that time is coming.

Gawn suffered three major knee injuries prior to fully breaking out, not really a fair comparison. In contrast, English has had a pretty easy run with injuries but has instead been held back solely by his lack of physical development.

A better comparison would be Grundy, who at 24, the same age English is now, was All Australian and won Collingwood’s B&F in a year where they made the grand final.

 

[hatescaptcha]

I’m glad we are backing in English and Sweet. They are hitting the right age.


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[Beasley]

Can you see the future can ya?

Has nothing to do with seeing the future ......... the Doggies just payed a grand final and therefore premiership contenders.
Hello????

 

[Munnez]

Very interesting. Ultimately I suspect that’s what the club wants/hopes as well but he’s taking way longer than anyone would have thought.

Is he really taking much longer to develop or is that he has done most of his development at the top level rather than a long apprenticeship in the VFL?
So it just seems like he is taking longer than average?

 

[Rioli2Rioli]

If you want to get this years pick as high as possible it is likely the best way to do that is to trade into 2022 and then back in to 2021. Using the example of Darcy being bid on by GWS at pick #2 it could work broadly as follows:

If trade #23 to Richmond for #28 and #38

• Our picks #28, #38, #43 and #44 are fully used for matching and pick #45 moves back to around pick #54
• We would then hold pick #48 (our original pick #52 which has moved forward because of picks used matching Darcy) and pick #54
• These probably move forward again to around pick #45 and pick #51 after Pies use picks to match a Daicos bid.

If trade #23 to Richmond for #28 and 2022 Richmond 2nd rounder
Possibly too optimistic (depends on where Richmond see themselves next year) but could instead be their 2022 3rd rounder plus North's 2022 4th rounder

• Our picks #28, #43, #44, #45 and #52 are fully used matching for Darcy with a 4 point deficit which is sufficiently small to not impact 2022 picks
• We then use the 2022 Richmond 2nd rounder to trade back in to the 2021 draft, for example with Brisbane who need 2022 points for F/S next year
• Brisbane's starting picks #41 and #54 have probably become around picks #37 and #46 post the Darcy and Daicos matching and they would trade those for Richmond's 2022 2nd rounder.
• You're then left with #37 and #46 rather than #45 and #51

There are obviously many many permutations depending on who you trade with, whether Darcy is bid on at pick #2, #3 or #4 but I think in most cases you will be able to improve the 2021 draft hand by moving our and then back in (maybe using our own 2022 2nd or 3rd rounders as well).

As a Richmond supporter i would be filthy with the club giving away an extra 2nd rounder for a 5 pick upgrade in a draft where you can throw a blanket over any player between 15-30.

 

[Munnez]

It was an interesting read and backs up what a few were saying in this thread

 

[threenewpadlocks]

You people realise that English doesn't have to be as good as Grundy and Gawn, right? And that isolated examples are all just part of the general rule of later developing tall blokes (English could develop or regress, and that development could be soon or late, but it's fine to generally say that he should likely have some development left?)

 

[maddog37]

Gawn suffered three major knee injuries prior to fully breaking out, not really a fair comparison. In contrast, English has had a pretty easy run with injuries but has instead been held back solely by his lack of physical development.

A better comparison would be Grundy, who at 24, the same age English is now, was All Australian and won Collingwood’s B&F in a year where they made the grand final.

Grundy was a man child. English was a late bloomer that grew a foot late in his teens. No comparison imho.

 

[Martyn_30_]

The reality it doesn’t matter where English sees himself, because right now I’m certain no club in the league would view him as their number one ruck.

It’s not as simple as English becoming more aggressive in the ruck ,which is actually a very difficult thing to change but it’s his complete lack of technical skill in the ruck contests. Which is quite bizarre given he’s skilful for someone of that height.


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[gangsta deluxe]

I hope we take a Leek (and we get lucky and he’s there later in the draft)

 

[gangsta deluxe]

He’s 19 and has been in the sanfl all year, not skinny, I’m sure has attributes bev likes…

He’s 196cm so no ruck, KPD

 

[Northernsoul74]

I hope we take a Leek (and we get lucky and he’s there later in the draft)View attachment 1261687

He’s got some serious tools.

 

[King Harold]

He’s got some serious tools.

you just made look a little harder at the photos N74

 

[DueWest]

Gawn suffered three major knee injuries prior to fully breaking out, not really a fair comparison. In contrast, English has had a pretty easy run with injuries but has instead been held back solely by his lack of physical development.

A better comparison would be Grundy, who at 24, the same age English is now, was All Australian and won Collingwood’s B&F in a year where they made the grand final.

English did have a serious concussion this year and missed several games, about 4 or so from memory. It’s not a visible injury so everyone ignores it

He was in great form prior and average after, even though serviceable although he couldn’t compete as well in contests, wonder why ?

He will be ok long term

 

[Ash1337]

He’s 19 and has been in the sanfl all year, not skinny, I’m sure has attributes bev likes…

He’s 196cm so no ruck, KPD

Nank is a cm shorter at 195cm. If he has a good leap then he can ruck.

 

[gangsta deluxe]

Nank is a cm shorter at 195cm. If he has a good leap then he can ruck.

Nank is 199cm…

I don’t disagree though. He’s played as a KPD in the SANFL.

 

[ScragCity]

I hope we take a Leek (and we get lucky and he’s there later in the draft)View attachment 1261687

In the words of Luke Darcy:

"Look at that athleticism!"

 

[gangsta deluxe]

In the words of Luke Darcy:

"Look at that athleticism!"

It’ll get wheeled out for sure… They always say it with this unsure pause, like they don’t realise the reason they’re saying it.

 

[josh the gent]

Has English even provably played better in games that he was a forward than in the ruck? I get that up forward a bad game is just disappearing rather than letting your opponent ruck dominate, and it's not as if English ever had a game where his direct opponent had 12 intercept possessions or whatever. But his very food games in the ruck are numerous, his very good games as a forward total one, the Ballarat v Brisbane game. He's arguably proven more effective inside 50 from the ruck pushing forward than starting out of there anyway.

He was 3rd tall forward / 2nd ruck to Stef in rounds 1-5 this season.

5 games and 9 goals.

Good for Tim, good for our structure.

It stretches oppo defences to have to cover the 3 big guys, and for Tim it means he’s fresher when he does go into the ruck.

I thought his forward craft was pretty good ever since i saw him in a fourth quarter vs Gold Coast in Ballarat in 2018 (maybe)…