Strategy Trade and List management Thread Part 5 (opposition supporters - READ posting rules before posting)

[lachy]

Seeing a few comments regarding how the midfield set-up changed after Libba went down on the weekend, I've detailed the changes we made below and the results were quite surprising to me...

CBAs After Liberatore Got Injured
13 - English (93%)
13 - Treloar (93%)
12 - Bontempelli (86%)
10 - B. Smith (71%)
5 - Macrae (36%)
2 - Daniel (14%)
1 - Lobb (7%)

English and Treloar went up 8% and 17% respectively, while Smith went up by 32%. Bontempelli, Macrae and Daniel spent around the same in the centre as they have done during the year…

CBA % - 2023
85% - English
81% - Bontempelli
78% - Liberatore
76% - Treloar
35% - Macrae
29% - B. Smith
20% - Daniel
15% - Lobb

If you want to dive a bit deeper, here is our midfield setup during Hawthorn’s dominance (Q2-Q4 10’)…

CBAs During Hawthorn’s Dominance (Q2-Q4 10’)
12 - Treloar (100%)
11 - English (92%)
10 - Bontempelli (83%)
9 - B. Smith (75%)
2 - Daniel (17%)
2 - Macrae (17%)
1 - Liberatore (8%)

Treloar attended every single CBA, English all but 1 and Bontempelli all but 2, with Smith generally taking the fourth spot. Daniel and Macrae only attended 2 CBAs each.

During this time period, there were 55 stoppages with Hawthorn winning the clearance count 24-17, but with us winning the first possession count 24-22, meaning that we were fumbling or directly turning it over at the source.

English contested 46 ruck contests against Reeves/Koschitzke in this time period with the following results…

Hitouts To Advantage
WB: 9
HW: 10

Sharks
WB: 4
HW: 5

First Possessions
WB: 20
HW: 18

Clearances
WB: 14
HW: 21

Scores From Stoppages
WB: 0.2 (2)
HW: 4.3 (27)

Lobb contested 9 ruck contests against Reeves/Koschitzke in this time period with the following results…

Hitouts To Advantage
WB: 0
HW: 1

Sharks
WB: 1
HW: 0

First Possessions
WB: 4
HW: 4

Clearances
WB: 3
HW: 3

Scores From Stoppages
WB: 0.2 (2)
HW: 0.0 (0)

Finally this is how each of the players who have attended centre bounces this year has gone in regards to actually winning the clearance, some of the numbers may surprise you...

Centre Clearances Won Per Centre Bounce Attendances
15.0% - Bontempelli
13.8% - Liberatore
13.3% - Macrae
9.6% - B. Smith
8.7% - Treloar
5.3% - English
4.5% - Daniel
0.0% - Darcy
0.0% - Khamis
0.0% - Lobb
0.0% - McLean
0.0% - Ugle-Hagen

We need more Bonts

On SM-G996B using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Foxman98]

Attends 93% of cb and only 5% clearance rate.

Scores from stoppage with Lobb versus English does not flatter Tim.

English wins tap and then doesn’t impact the contest enough. Needs to block, shepherd and tackle more.

Needs a wake up call as I feel the ruckman sets the tone at stoppages and Tim is playing below his best in terms of impact on the contest physically.

Again how is it English's fault that he hits it to advantage and the midfield don't get the clearance?

 

[doggy_dog]

Seeing a few comments regarding how the midfield set-up changed after Libba went down on the weekend, I've detailed the changes we made below and the results were quite surprising to me...

CBAs After Liberatore Got Injured
13 - English (93%)
13 - Treloar (93%)
12 - Bontempelli (86%)
10 - B. Smith (71%)
5 - Macrae (36%)
2 - Daniel (14%)
1 - Lobb (7%)

English and Treloar went up 8% and 17% respectively, while Smith went up by 32%. Bontempelli, Macrae and Daniel spent around the same in the centre as they have done during the year…

CBA % - 2023
85% - English
81% - Bontempelli
78% - Liberatore
76% - Treloar
35% - Macrae
29% - B. Smith
20% - Daniel
15% - Lobb

If you want to dive a bit deeper, here is our midfield setup during Hawthorn’s dominance (Q2-Q4 10’)…

CBAs During Hawthorn’s Dominance (Q2-Q4 10’)
12 - Treloar (100%)
11 - English (92%)
10 - Bontempelli (83%)
9 - B. Smith (75%)
2 - Daniel (17%)
2 - Macrae (17%)
1 - Liberatore (8%)

Treloar attended every single CBA, English all but 1 and Bontempelli all but 2, with Smith generally taking the fourth spot. Daniel and Macrae only attended 2 CBAs each.

During this time period, there were 55 stoppages with Hawthorn winning the clearance count 24-17, but with us winning the first possession count 24-22, meaning that we were fumbling or directly turning it over at the source.

English contested 46 ruck contests against Reeves/Koschitzke in this time period with the following results…

Hitouts To Advantage
WB: 9
HW: 10

Sharks
WB: 4
HW: 5

First Possessions
WB: 20
HW: 18

Clearances
WB: 14
HW: 21

Scores From Stoppages
WB: 0.2 (2)
HW: 4.3 (27)

Lobb contested 9 ruck contests against Reeves/Koschitzke in this time period with the following results…

Hitouts To Advantage
WB: 0
HW: 1

Sharks
WB: 1
HW: 0

First Possessions
WB: 4
HW: 4

Clearances
WB: 3
HW: 3

Scores From Stoppages
WB: 0.2 (2)
HW: 0.0 (0)

Finally this is how each of the players who have attended centre bounces this year has gone in regards to actually winning the clearance, some of the numbers may surprise you...

Centre Clearances Won Per Centre Bounce Attendances
15.0% - Bontempelli
13.8% - Liberatore
13.3% - Macrae
9.6% - B. Smith
8.7% - Treloar
5.3% - English
4.5% - Daniel
0.0% - Darcy
0.0% - Khamis
0.0% - Lobb
0.0% - McLean
0.0% - Ugle-Hagen

Maybe a stretch but do you have league wide scores from stoppages per ruckman? If that makes sense

 

[Golden_6]

Attends 93% of cb and only 5% clearance rate.

Scores from stoppage with Lobb versus English does not flatter Tim.

English wins tap and then doesn’t impact the contest enough. Needs to block, shepherd and tackle more.

Needs a wake up call as I feel the ruckman sets the tone at stoppages and Tim is playing below his best in terms of impact on the contest physically.

Our centre bounce clearance numbers are generally a positive. We have the #2 and #7 best centre clearance players in the game so that's a very clear explanation why his raw numbers aren't high.

We got absolutely smashed on the weekend and still managed to win the centre clearances 10-8. There's a lot of areas that should be taking the blame but you certainly aren't looking in the right spot.

 

[Mofra]

Our centre bounce clearance numbers are generally a positive. We have the #2 and #7 best centre clearance players in the game so that's a very clear explanation why his raw numbers aren't high.

We got absolutely smashed on the weekend and still managed to win the centre clearances 10-8. There's a lot of areas that should be taking the blame but you certainly aren't looking in the right spot.

The quality of clearance is more important than the quantity of clearances.

Although in the grand scheme of things, we lost Libba early and lost by 3 points to a side that beat the ladder leaders a week earlier.

It's the way we're losing games, not just raw numbers, that matter.

 

[maddog37]

Again how is it English's fault that he hits it to advantage and the midfield don't get the clearance?

I appreciate that point of view but a good ruckman needs to impose himself physically on the contest. His job is not done simply by tapping the ball out.

 

[maddog37]

Our centre bounce clearance numbers are generally a positive. We have the #2 and #7 best centre clearance players in the game so that's a very clear explanation why his raw numbers aren't high.

We got absolutely smashed on the weekend and still managed to win the centre clearances 10-8. There's a lot of areas that should be taking the blame but you certainly aren't looking in the right spot.

I disagree. Just because we have worse problems in other areas doesn’t preclude my point from being relevant.

Our centre clearance numbers are because of Bont and Libba more than anything else and the workload/dependency on these two is a weakness other teams exploit.

 

[Dog 36]

Attends 93% of cb and only 5% clearance rate.

Scores from stoppage with Lobb versus English does not flatter Tim.

English wins tap and then doesn’t impact the contest enough. Needs to block, shepherd and tackle more.

Needs a wake up call as I feel the ruckman sets the tone at stoppages and Tim is playing below his best in terms of impact on the contest physically.

I have often thought is Timmy the best ruck for this team and midfield.

Pity we did not explore playing Sweet

 

[Foxman98]

I appreciate that point of view but a good ruckman needs to impose himself physically on the contest. His job is not done simply by tapping the ball out.

He leads the league in intercept marks, Goals + Score involvments (for starting ruckaman), is second in the league for disposals, Tackles, Pressure acts and 4th for contested possessions

Perhaps Tim isn't the issue and as always its our often over lauded midfield that is the issue

 

[Libbaaaa]

English will get All Aus ruckman by default but I’m still never confident he’ll win an important of crucial hit out.

 

[Charlie Bucket]

I disagree. Just because we have worse problems in other areas doesn’t preclude my point from being relevant.

Our centre clearance numbers are because of Bont and Libba more than anything else and the workload/dependency on these two is a weakness other teams exploit.

Bont and Libba account for 66% of any Centre bounce set up considering there’s only 3 in at any one time. So of course they’d hold a larger percentage of clearances.

I think if you looked at any other team in the comp, they’d have a similar percentage of their mids getting a similar percentage of their clearances. You’ll struggle to find a team that has an even spread of clearances per mid.

And so the theory that stopping one or both of Bont and Libba means you stop our midfield is the relevant for every other team in the comp.

 

[Charlie Bucket]

English will get All Aus ruckman by default but I’m still never confident he’ll win an important of crucial hit out.

Why is it by default? He’s had an outstanding year. And comparable to the great years Gawn, Grundy and Nic Nat have had when winning AA honours.

He deserves it and would be very stiff to miss out.

 

[Dog 36]

ITK posters could they shed some light as to why B Williams has not signed yet?

Seems there was momentum he would but things have gone quiet.

 

[VitalDread]

ITK posters could they shed some light as to why B Williams has not signed yet?

Seems there was momentum he would but things have gone quiet.

Money and bonuses

 

[immortalmike]

I appreciate that point of view but a good ruckman needs to impose himself physically on the contest. His job is not done simply by tapping the ball out.

My kingdom for a 27 year old Ben Hudson.
If we had a ruck like him in 2021 we would have won the flag.

 

[VitalDread]

My kingdom for a 27 year old Ben Hudson.
If we had a ruck like him in 2021 we would have won the flag.

Its criminally how underrated he was

 

[VitalDread]

I doubt he would be keen for a move but i would be in the ear of Finn Maginness

 

[maddog37]

He leads the league in intercept marks, Goals + Score involvments (for starting ruckaman), is second in the league for disposals, Tackles, Pressure acts and 4th for contested possessions

Perhaps Tim isn't the issue and as always its our often over lauded midfield that is the issue

Hard to argue with that!!!!

I just wish he could get a bit of Patches O’Houlihan inspiration and get angry. https://media4.giphy.com/media/ZX3M****zfGi4/200.gif

 

[Foxman98]

Hard to argue with that!!!!

Tim's only weak point is his hit out win percentage but everything else he is top 5 in the comp for ruckman where as our midfield are often flat footed our starting in poor positions

 

[Mojorisin]

JOD's 2 year contract has been officially announced.

 

[Libbaaaa]

Why is it by default? He’s had an outstanding year. And comparable to the great years Gawn, Grundy and Nic Nat have had when winning AA honours.

He deserves it and would be very stiff to miss out.

More the lack of any dominate rucks in the league, Gawn by far and the way the best when he was firing as lone ruck the past month. Hence why giving him crazy money and years does not add up.

 

[ummmbont]

Ok we can set ourselves up for real long time success.
Pick 11 and 17 2350 points for pick 4
Mckercher will slide to us.
Trade future 1st and 36 for 13 after someone bids on Croft
Take Wilson
Trade sweet to swans pick 31 grab Lual

Thoughts

 

[doggiesin08]

Ok we can set ourselves up for real long time success.
Pick 11 and 17 2350 points for pick 4
Mckercher will slide to us.
Trade future 1st and 36 for 13 after someone bids on Croft
Take Wilson
Trade sweet to swans pick 31 grab Lual

Thoughts

What points are you matching Croft with?

 

[weltschmerz]

Ok we can set ourselves up for real long time success.
Pick 11 and 17 2350 points for pick 4
Mckercher will slide to us.
Trade future 1st and 36 for 13 after someone bids on Croft
Take Wilson
Trade sweet to swans pick 31 grab Lual

Thoughts

We’d be using whatever we’ve got after McKercher to match Croft.

 

[scooter600x]

We’d be using whatever we’ve got after McKercher to match Croft.

Including the pick 36 you intend to trade with our future first for 13
13 may not be good enough for Wilson but you don’t have to do the trade if he’s already gone
Lual looks better than pick 31, too.
Hope you’re right