Strategy Trade and List Management Thread Part 7 (opposition supporters - READ posting rules before posting)

[dogwatch]

Daniel Talia, Harry Taylor, Tom Stewart, Luke Ryan, Jeremy McGovern, Steven May, Tom Barrass, Phil Davis, Sam Collins, James Frawley.

Just off the top of my head.

We’ve not had anything close to what most other clubs have. Veterans with a few years left or blokes like Keath who were never A Grade quality and only lasted a handful of years. The rest were very average defenders or players moved from other roles with similar results.

I think it’s been our biggest List Management issue in Bevos era. Not suggesting we haven’t tried, but how hard? 11 years with at most B Grade KPD players is a massive fail.

I posted the following reply in the Off Season thread before reading this page, but it's more suited to this thread so I'll re-post it here:

Yes McAsey was a flop. The point is they recognise the need and keep giving it a crack.​

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Our drafting of tall defenders dropped off markedly after about 2016. Coincidence?​

​

We selected Naughton in 2017 but Bevo thought he was wasted as a defender. He is certainly now one of the best KPFs in the league so in that sense he was justified. But it does form part of a bigger picture.​

​

After Naughton there was nothing in the ND until 2022 when we drafted Busslinger. He was perhaps a slight reach at about pick #13. We did that because the evidence could no longer be ignored that we had no KPD stocks for the future. I'm hoping he will still turn out to be a long term player for us.​

​

We had filled up the intervening years with trading for tall defenders at the back end of their career (some were FAs) - Keath, O'Brien, LJones, Trengove, along with the rookie Gardner. We got only 1-2 years of decent football out of each of them. And we converted Rory Lobb in his early 30s to a KPD in a Hail Mary move that came off. Hardly convincing evidence of a commitment to developing KPDs.​

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We are now paying for it.​

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Who is to blame for this? Our recruiters? Or were they acting on directions from Bevo? Was it bad luck that "best available" was never a KPD? Or was it just bad luck that some pre-2017 picks didn't turn out (eg Lachie Young, Marcus Adams, Kieren Collins, Michael Talia)?​

​

I'm of the view that it's not just bad luck. It's poor list planning & management based on conscious choices we've made.​

 

[Shacf501]

Would rather have a crack at McKenzie for 5 than offer silvangi 5 based on his body!

I know this doesn't help with our key backs but adds another quality youngster who has looked good

 

[DannyB4]

I just want to point out that while everyone is criticising our defence (and rightly so) Weitering conceded 2 more goals than Lobb this year.

Weitering - 46 Goals
Lobb - 44 Goals

Source: afl.com.au article about the Reverse Coleman.

Monday Cal-culations: Draft lockout not the answer, Nicks' past life lessons, Dees' deadline

In Monday Cal-culations, Callum Twomey looks at the big decisions facing the Demons, the Bombers' moves to land a new fitness boss and the 'reverse Coleman'

www.afl.com.au

 

[iambrilliant]

Would rather have a crack at McKenzie for 5 than offer silvangi 5 based on his body!

I know this doesn't help with our key backs but adds another quality youngster who has looked good

If he’s available we should definitely have a crack . I’ve liked what I’ve seen of him

 

[Optimistic Dog]

What about Ollie Henry not getting a game at the cats. This would allow Croft to go back where I think he could be an outstanding defender. Pay back for what we got for Bailey a late 3rd.

 

[Norm De Guerre]

What about Ollie Henry not getting a game at the cats. This would allow Croft to go back where I think he could be an outstanding defender. Pay back for what we got for Bailey a late 3rd.

Ollie Henry has nice hair.

 

[iambrilliant]

What’s the backup if jsos goes to saints

 

[Foxman98]

What’s the backup if jsos goes to saints

Butts and Blanck 2 better options anyway

 

[Norm De Guerre]

What’s the backup if jsos goes to saints

Go with what we've got and rethink how we set up around and behind the ball.

Which we should be doing regardless of whether or not we can find an A grade full back. Or even Jack Silvangi.

 

[TiAn_]

It’s entirely possible our key defenders are actually fine, or at least fine enough and the system and the players around them are where the improvement needs to come.

Putting aside the defensive scheme. My view for years has been that a big problem is our lack of quality defence from our medium and small defenders. Arguably Rory Lobb

7

Rory Lobb

Age

32

Ht

207cm

Wt

106kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

11.0

3star

K

6.7

3star

HB

4.4

3star

M

4.0

4star

T

2.4

4star

MG

174.6

3star

D

11.3

3star

K

8.0

3star

HB

3.3

2star

M

4.6

4star

T

1.4

2star

MG

228.6

3star

D

7.0

2star

K

4.0

2star

HB

3.0

3star

M

2.6

3star

T

2.8

5star

MG

133.0

3star

was better than Darcy Moore

30

Darcy Moore

Age

29

Ht

203cm

Wt

100kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

11.1

3star

K

7.0

3star

HB

4.1

3star

M

4.8

5star

T

1.6

4star

MG

169.1

3star

D

13.9

3star

K

7.3

3star

HB

6.6

4star

M

4.9

5star

T

0.7

1star

MG

182.0

3star

D

6.8

2star

K

4.2

2star

HB

2.6

3star

M

2.6

3star

T

1.8

4star

MG

87.4

2star

this year. Collingwood can get away with pairing him with a battler like Billy Frampton

17

Billy Frampton

Age

29

Ht

201cm

Wt

100kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

9.1

2star

K

5.1

2star

HB

4.0

3star

M

3.1

3star

T

0.7

3star

MG

99.0

2star

D

8.5

2star

K

4.8

2star

HB

3.8

3star

M

3.5

3star

T

0.5

1star

MG

99.0

2star

D

9.2

3star

K

5.6

3star

HB

3.6

3star

M

2.8

3star

T

1.0

3star

MG

107.0

2star

because they have strong medium/small defenders like Jeremy Howe

38

Jeremy Howe

Age

35

Ht

190cm

Wt

86kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

17.0

4star

K

11.2

4star

HB

5.7

4star

M

6.4

5star

T

2.1

4star

MG

318.1

4star

D

21.5

5star

K

16.5

5star

HB

5.0

3star

M

6.5

5star

T

2.0

3star

MG

433.3

5star

D

15.2

4star

K

9.0

4star

HB

6.2

4star

M

6.8

5star

T

1.6

4star

, Brayden Maynard

4

Brayden Maynard

Age

29

Ht

189cm

Wt

93kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

17.4

4star

K

11.6

4star

HB

5.9

4star

M

3.9

4star

T

3.6

5star

MG

327.8

4star

D

20.7

5star

K

14.0

5star

HB

6.7

4star

M

3.9

4star

T

3.0

4star

MG

417.4

5star

D

13.8

4star

K

8.6

4star

HB

5.2

4star

M

2.8

3star

T

3.6

5star

MG

205.8

4star

and Isaac Quaynor

3

Isaac Quaynor

Age

25

Ht

180cm

Wt

88kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

14.7

4star

K

6.7

3star

HB

8.0

5star

M

3.0

3star

T

2.7

4star

MG

244.0

4star

D

14.7

4star

K

6.7

3star

HB

8.0

4star

M

3.0

3star

T

2.7

4star

MG

244.0

4star

D

14.7

4star

K

6.7

3star

HB

8.0

5star

M

3.0

3star

T

2.7

5star

MG

244.0

4star

back there. Whereas we have some combination of Bailey Dale

31

Bailey Dale

Age

29

Ht

188cm

Wt

85kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

13.2

3star

K

7.6

3star

HB

5.6

4star

M

3.1

3star

T

1.6

4star

MG

117.4

2star

D

9.0

2star

K

5.1

2star

HB

3.9

3star

M

2.3

2star

T

1.7

3star

MG

117.4

2star

D

8.0

2star

K

5.0

2star

HB

3.0

3star

M

1.4

2star

T

2.0

4star

, Bailey Williams, Luke Cleary, Lachie Bramble and Jason Johannisen

39

Jason Johannisen

Age

33

Ht

181cm

Wt

82kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

20.2

5star

K

12.9

5star

HB

7.3

5star

M

4.3

4star

T

2.0

4star

MG

418.9

5star

D

16.3

4star

K

10.0

4star

HB

6.3

4star

M

4.3

4star

T

1.9

3star

MG

283.1

4star

D

15.6

4star

K

9.2

4star

HB

6.4

4star

M

2.6

3star

T

1.6

4star

.

Replace Bramble and Johannisen with a medium and small that are quality defenders and we look a lot better behind the ball.

 

[grassman75]

Bev is incredibly wholesome, I love him.

Hi Bev

 

[TheSportingEyes]

Bulldogs were 4th best at stopping opposition moving the ball from the defensive 50 to their forward 50. 11th worst at stopping opposition moving the ball from defensive 50 to a score. System is fine, no Jones and Duyrea hurt us big time, we need better defenders in that back 6. A new key back is a must. I still think Lobb and O'donnel can be good enough 2nd and 3rd talls but that number one is a must. A decent medium defender would be nice as well, hopefully Sellwood can develop.

 

[grassman75]

What’s the backup if jsos goes to saints

Big breath out for a bullet dodged

 

[Golden_6]

What’s the backup if jsos goes to saints

I wouldn't lose any sleep over it to be honest. Butts is the one I would go after.

I'm confident Lobb, JOD, Sellwood & Cleary can cover the 2-4 defender roles anyway. We need a number 1 and a small lockdown type.

 

[Struggle]

Butts and Blanck 2 better options anyway

Is Blanck better than Serong? Or just more obtainable

 

[Foxman98]

Is Blanck better than Serong? Or just more obtainable

Serong 192cm Blanck 197cm

Both are obtainable but Blanck the bigger/better option for us as we need a big anchor

 

[MaxiBont]

Don’t see why Butts would want to leave unless we offer way overs.

 

[dogwatch]

I just want to point out that while everyone is criticising our defence (and rightly so) Weitering conceded 2 more goals than Lobb this year.

Weitering - 46 Goals
Lobb - 44 Goals

Source: afl.com.au article about the Reverse Coleman.

Monday Cal-culations: Draft lockout not the answer, Nicks' past life lessons, Dees' deadline

In Monday Cal-culations, Callum Twomey looks at the big decisions facing the Demons, the Bombers' moves to land a new fitness boss and the 'reverse Coleman'

www.afl.com.au

On the basis of goals conceded per game May was easily the worst, but there could have been others outside those top 8 with an even worse goals per game average.

Lobb's figures don't look good for a player in a higher placed club that was way down at 11th in points conceded. But like all of our defenders he was hung out to dry by our defensive tactics and our propensity to leak easy goals out the back. Lobb was often the fall guy as the only man in the D50 when the opposition broke the lines for those easy slingshot goals.

Here's the table of the top 8 named in that reverse Coleman article:

Rank	Player	Club	Goals conc.	Games	GC/Game	Ladder	Pts Against
1	Aliir	Port Adel	49	22	2.23	13th	5th
2eq	Miller	Richmond	46	23	2.00	17th	4th
2eq	Weitering	Carlton	46	23	2.00	11th	9th
4eq	Lobb	WB	44	23	1.91	9th	11th
4eq	Ginbey	WCE	44	23	1.91	18th	1st
6	May	Melbourne	43	16	2.69	14th	7th
7eq	Ryan L	Frem	42	23	1.83	6th	12th
7eq	Wilkie	St Kilda	42	23	1.83	12th	6th

 

[Bonty4]

Fair enough, but maybe over the offseason he could slim down a bit and regain some speed

He’s gone

 

[Bonty4]

This legitimately scares me in terms of the potential success of our pursuit.

Dont stress, mail is still us next year. Rather it now but it is what it is

 

[Doggies7]

Don’t see why Butts would want to leave unless we offer way overs.

Well #1 he's going to be playing mostly SANFL next season again unless injuries, he is behind Worrell, Keane, Murray, Michalanney at the Crows currently.

#2 Gets to come home again and likely on a contract extension for a few more years past 2026.

 

[Dogsman16]

Sam Draper exiting in the middle of an exodus is peak irony.

 

[Doggies7]

Sam Draper exiting in the middle of an exodus is peak irony.

I don't really rate him, but solid get for Brisbane if he makes it there for free...

The Crows interest makes no sense to me after they re-signed ROB as their #1 ruck.

 

[Golden_6]

The FA system is definitely broken. It's a constant of players leaving bottom clubs to head to teams at the top of good contracts.

Brisbane will slightly overpay Draper and Essendon will receive a pick more than he's worth. In return Essendon will do Brisbane a solid and hand over Ridley.

 

[Dogs Rule]

The FA system is definitely broken. It's a constant of players leaving bottom clubs to head to teams at the top of good contracts.

Brisbane will slightly overpay Draper and Essendon will receive a pick more than he's worth. In return Essendon will do Brisbane a solid and hand over Ridley.

Time for the AFL to show some balls (if they have any left) and grab back some power from the AFLPA.