Strategy Trade and List Management Thread Part 7 (opposition supporters - READ posting rules before posting)

[Bulldogs85]

Good.

It was on first crack all that investment down the drain not the clubs fault

 

[Doggy]

It was on first crack all that investment down the drain not the clubs fault

Probably hurt us all year with the distraction

 

[Bulldogs85]

Probably hurt us all year with the distraction

rip the band-aid off and move on then

 

[dogsuperfan]

Maybe Cornes was onto something with that juh for dgb mock trade.

 

[Proffessor]

Can't blame JOD and Bus if you're not also blaming the extremely experienced Lobb. It's our mismanagement. Bus could have about 10 more games to his name but we never picked him. They're both unbelievably young too for that level of responsibility. This is on us and the unfortunate loss of Liam Jones

Buss is a first-round pick who was drafted as a KPD back in 2022. Arguably he has a lot more experience in defence than Lobb.

I think we would have been better served by bringing Liam Jones back into the side in front of Buss. When our coaches chose this outcome, I'm not sure how you can describe it as an unfortunate loss.

 

[St 07]

Buss is a first-round pick who was drafted as a KPD back in 2022. Arguably he has a lot more experience in defence than Lobb.

I think we would have been better served by bringing Liam Jones back into the side in front of Buss. When our coaches chose this outcome, I'm not sure how you can e describe it as an unfortunate loss.

It's an unfortunate loss that he had an injury interupted preseason and dropped dramatically in form. Lobb has about a million times more experience at AFL level than Buss.

 

[Proffessor]

It's an unfortunate loss that he had an injury interupted preseason and dropped dramatically in form. Lobb has about a million times more experience at AFL level than Buss.

I think the loss of form for Jones is debatable.
Lobb has more AFL experience than Buss, but not much of it has been in defence.

Buss has been groomed for his defensive role since before he was drafted back in 2022. If he doesn’t understand what’s expected of him by now then that is a serious problem. Exactly how long do we need to devote to teaching and developing him before it is reasonable to expect him to perform satisfactorily as an AFL level defender?

 

[Guido]

We could have andrews and weitering. Wouldn't make a difference with the structure we play.

Yes, our defenders are metres from their opponents a lot of the time, but we also lose multiple 1on1s (I think the stat I heard on TripleM was that we are the worst in the league in defensive 1on1s - worse than West Coast!?).

I think a top key defender would make a world of difference - I mean we only need to look back to the impact Liam Jones was having on our overall defence 2 years ago. His drop off, JOD being very inconsistent, Bus being nowhere near ready (may never be), and Lobb also now seemingly also losing a yard is costing us dearly. Even a slight upgrade or two to players who can play the structure a touch better and defend 1on1 when required would be a god-send.

Exactly how long do we need to devote to teaching and developing him before it is reasonable to expect him to perform satisfactorily as an AFL level defender?

I provided a list of key defenders that took ages to come on a few weeks ago.

I won't go over all of them, but if you think of Sam Collins, you have to imagine how terrible he would have looked, to, after years of development at Freo, be considered in the bottom 3 (35-38) players on the list and be delisted? How little (zero) faith they had in him coming on to be a decent player?

And this is not to say that I'm not worried about Bus. He has so much to work on and still a very long way to go, I'm struggling to think of anyone else in the league so similarly laconic who steps up in finals.

But year one was a write off which has set him back massively. With another pre-season and another year of learning/development, he should hopefully be dominating VFL by the end of next year. Dominating the next level down at 21-22-23 is a similar development arc that many late blooming key defenders have followed (Sam Collins, Dale Morris, Tom Stewart, Callum Wilkie, Dane Rampe, Joel Hamling). As some see Busslinger today, many of these guys weren't even deemed to be good enough to be on an AFL list at all (either delisted or never drafted) before their rapid upswings.

 

[doggy_dog]

English should play the role we had Poulter playing, forward pushing very high as an outlet and then working back into F50. This and then coming in as chop out ruck against second stringers he’d be an absolute weapon.

Throw 3.5m over 3 years at Wilkie

And change our abysmal structures obviously

 

[Hobdog]

I’m repeating my opinion from yesterday but unless we can convince a defender from another club that we’re going to rethink our structures, so our defenders aren’t hung out to dry, I don’t see why they’d make the move just to end up being made to look second rate in our set-up

 

[Doggy]

I’m repeating my opinion from yesterday but unless we can convince a defender from another club that we’re going to rethink our structures, so our defenders aren’t hung out to dry, I don’t see why they’d make the move just to end up being made to look second rate in our set-up

Coaching is what needs to change foremost. We saw the effect of changing things around on that stupid press against GWS. Worked so well we abandoned it after that. Play that style and Fremantle gets nowhere near us. Can't have that though, Beveridge keeps outsmarting himself.

 

[King Harold]

Surely Arty Jones gets a two year extension

Could be that X factor pressure forward we lack now that the sub rule is gone

100%, I could see a lot of improvement in him getting a lot more involved in games at the start of the season.
Definitely getting stronger and more mature physically.

 

[doggy_dog]

From last night to RD 1 I’d like to see:

Buss -> someone
McNeil - > Weightman
JJ -> Sellwood
Garcia -> Treloar
Baker -> Dolan (even though Baker has been pretty good, if Dolan takes a physical step he just has way more class)
Jaques could possibly overtake Cleary with a big preseason too

Other than the glaring hole at FB we already have the cattle. Now we need people who can steer the ship

 

[dogsuperfan]

From last night to RD 1 I’d like to see:

Buss -> someone
McNeil - > Weightman
JJ -> Sellwood
Garcia -> Treloar
Baker -> Dolan (even though Baker has been pretty good, if Dolan takes a physical step he just has way more class)
Jaques could possibly overtake Cleary with a big preseason too

Other than the glaring hole at FB we already have the cattle. Now we need people who can steer the ship

I think we also need to start looking at someone to take Libbas spot

 

[redmania]

I think we need to trade hard. Futures as well. Bring in a key back and go hard for Butters.

 

[Golden_6]

I think we also need to start looking at someone to take Libbas spot

He probably has one more year and then we can look to go hard for Butters in 2026. In the short term, Sanders & West are probably best placed to reduce his workload slightly.

 

[Foxman98]

I think we need to trade hard. Futures as well. Bring in a key back and go hard for Butters.

All well and good to say in theory but players have to actually be available to do so

 

[Chalky White]

If we boot JUH we should have around 2m in cap space.

We need to grow a set and target 2-3 players worth 600-700k a season or 1m a season to patch the holes on our list.

Adelaide brought in a bunch of players. Hawthorn did the same.

We have several gaps to fill. Our bottom 6 needs to become a bottom 2-3.

Seriously how are we going to dump JUHs salary? No other club would touch him, if one is stupid enough to take him then we will have to pay at least half his salary.

 

[Chalky White]

We could have andrews and weitering. Wouldn't make a difference with the structure we play. We defend way to high has happened for years and nothing will change.

Maybe we defend to high because we haven’t got a good defender

 

[Chalky White]

I think the loss of form for Jones is debatable.
Lobb has more AFL experience than Buss, but not much of it has been in defence.

Buss has been groomed for his defensive role since before he was drafted back in 2022. If he doesn’t understand what’s expected of him by now then that is a serious problem. Exactly how long do we need to devote to teaching and developing him before it is reasonable to expect him to perform satisfactorily as an AFL level defender?

Buss is the closest like for like player of Zaine Corey we’ve ever had or probably ever will.

 

[Shacf501]

Yeah I’m out on JOD. He doesn’t have it

I reckon he does.....not to be a superstar but I think he will end up being ok..... But he shouldn't be your main defender! Though, he needs to be told when you jump at the ball in a pack it needs to be sent over the boundary or hit forward not to let it go over the back.

 

[Doggies_13]

At some point do we have to ask the question of whether it’s that we just draft players incapable of defending or is it that our coaching staff are incapable of developing players defensively. Foregoing that we clearly need a better defensive game plan and structures.

If you look at our best defensive players under beveridge how many were actually developed in his era?

Morris
Moyd
L Jones
Duryea
Wood
Roberts
Hamling
Keath

Were all developed elsewhere or prior to his era.

In his time who is there?
Dale - more so an offensive attacker than a defender.

Richards - was a hybrid defensive/offensive defender but has moved into the midfield

Lobb - is an interceptor more than a defender.

JOD - still can’t read the play at all or get his positioning right.

Buss - has stagnated and probably should be further along

Cleary - has he really improved defensively was always a defended first type, improvement through confidence and offensively.

Gardner - was never up to it

Williams - probably the one that was developed the most defensively in Bevo’s time

 

[Shacf501]

Seriously how are we going to dump JUHs salary? No other club would touch him, if one is stupid enough to take him then we will have to pay at least half his salary.

Exactly, that's why he keeps saying he wants to stay with us because he knows he can continue to take the piss and get paid accordingly. If he goes somewhere else there will be less money and more clauses in his contract based on performance and behaviour.

Basically he is using the system to screw us! It's as simple as that!

 

[go you pups]

English should play the role we had Poulter playing, forward pushing very high as an outlet and then working back into F50. This and then coming in as chop out ruck against second stringers he’d be an absolute weapon.

Throw 3.5m over 3 years at Wilkie

And change our abysmal structures obviously

All for this, who's our ruckman though?

Or we throw cash at Marshall too?

 

[go you pups]

posted this in the changes thread:

View attachment 2405911

I posted this knowing what was most likely about to happen today - and it did.

Unfortunately, along with our stupidly aggressive press, Tim shitting and pissing all over himself in any real, important game is a recurring theme.

We won’t win finals with him as our main ruck. And this total nonfactor allows opposition rucks to dictate the terms to any good midfield. Which in turn puts our already shit backline at further risk.

What we need to do, is be brave and salary dump Tim like we did Caleb and Macrae.

But we won’t because we’re in too deep and he’s Bevos favourite pet of all.

Spot on

The club will not improve until the coach and ruckman are moved on