Strategy Trade and List Management Thread Part 8 (opposition supporters - READ posting rules before posting)

[_Mike_]

Opposition supporters coming to troll , you have been warned

 

[redmania]

Maybe it's time to think outside the box.

I would like to see us have a crack with a late/rookie pick at a failed/average KP Forward and see if we can turn them into a serviceable full back.

That's why Lobb plays down the back

 

[yebach]

Hipwood?... or Amartey?

You might be on to something with Amartey

IMO from my eye test, he might make a competent FB.

It's a fun thought exercise.

 

[yebach]

That's why Lobb plays down the back

Exactly! Why can't we try it again?

 

[Doggies7]

You might be on to something with Amartey

IMO from my eye test, he might make a competent FB.

It's a fun thought exercise.

About to sign an extension with the Swans unfortunately.

 

[MaxiBont]

I’d prefer Blight as a DFA over Frost

 

[Philthy1]

Who do we play if one or both go down?

VFL full back of the year Ryan Gardner
Will Darcy
Zac Walker
Rory Lobb
Jordan Croft

 

[adogsfan5]

Didn’t walker play fwd late in the season? Confusing…

 

[redmania]

Surely Billy Croft gets a chance as a small forward?

 

[lachy]

Didn’t walker play fwd late in the season? Confusing…

That was to strengthen the VFL forward line to win a premiership

 

[Foxman98]

Didn’t walker play fwd late in the season? Confusing…

We had Jones Gards and Buss all back and lost Buku

 

[lachy]

Surely Billy Croft gets a chance as a small forward?

We could do a lot worse

 

[CDBulldog]

FWIW, with all this jibber jabber about our lack of KPD, I see it differently to most. I'm happy with our current stocks but maybe that's because my expectations of Buss and JOD developing into reliable KPDs exceeds most.

Buss will have a point to prove next season. It will be his fourth year in the system and he probably feels a bit unwanted at the moment due to only playing seven matches to date and our seemingly aggressive approach to land a KPD in trade week. Personally, that would give me motivation to prove everyone wrong.

Although inconsistent, I've been impressed with his growth and it fills me with even more confidence now hearing he hasn't yet completed a full preseason.

JOD has improved every season. I don't see why he won't continue to improve. His trajectory is going in the right direction.

I'd be very concerned if our defensive profile didn't improve next season especially given the likelihood we hold our stagger more instead of being so aggressive forward of centre.

Absolutely agree with this. We have the cattle just not the right system. In addition to Lobb, Buss and JOD, we can shift Williams back when needed as well as Freijah to complement Dale. Just need a small defender.

 

[Philthy1]

Didn’t walker play fwd late in the season? Confusing…

Hard for Walker to get a look in given he was just drafted mid year.

 

[Foxman98]

We could do a lot worse

Has the tools to be a great back pocket for mine

 

[CDBulldog]

Another key point to highlight which i've argued back and forth with people on here about this year.

"The harsh reality of talls taken early in the draft is they take 4-5 years to develop, and that's with a clean run at it."

Buss is only 21 and hasn't completed a full pre-season yet! He has already shown quite a bit in my eyes having some very good games this year at VFL level, and being promoted above Jones and Gardner to play a solid chunk of AFL games this year and be able to hold his own. He is a big boy and once he can put on some more strength and add to his defensive craft, I still absolutely believe in him becoming a good, to very good KPD at AFL level. It's fine if people disagree, but I don't think you can argue that he isn't yet fully developed, and still has a chunk of potential inside him and a higher level he may hit.

This may be a big call but Buss looks better than Weitering did at the same age and level of experience. Weitering was terrible early into his career. I’m not saying we should expect Buss to become Weitering mark 2, just that some kpd require time. Big year for Buss coming up and I’m sure he knows it. Hope he’s hitting the gym daily at the moment.

 

[JohnnySteel]

This may be a big call but Buss looks better than Weitering did at the same age and level of experience. Weitering was terrible early into his career. I’m not saying we should expect Buss to become Weitering mark 2, just that some kpd require time. Big year for Buss coming up and I’m sure he knows it. Hope he’s hitting the gym daily at the moment.

I’m a big Buss fan, I think he’ll be a very good FB. We just need to get games into him & JOD.

 

[Martyn_30_]

It's still amazes me how much people over rate draft picks, it's as if most people have never actually looked at previous drafts including list managers. You're more likely to get a Vandermeer level player at 15 than you are an Ed Richards

20

Ed Richards

Age

26

Ht

188cm

Wt

89kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

12.4

3star

K

7.2

3star

HB

5.2

4star

M

2.5

3star

T

2.4

4star

CL

0.7

3star

D

11.3

3star

K

6.0

2star

HB

5.3

3star

M

1.5

2star

T

2.5

3star

CL

1.1

3star

D

14.6

4star

K

9.8

4star

HB

4.8

4star

M

4.8

5star

T

2.6

4star

CL

0.2

2star

who was taken at that spot. A middling first rounder for a genuine lock down key defender to fix a disaster of an area, doesn't seem like much of a risk.

 

[BallaratBulldog]

It's still amazes me how much people over rate draft picks, it's as if most people have never actually looked at previous drafts including list managers. You're more likely to get a Vandermeer level player at 15 than you are an Ed Richards who was taken at that spot. A middling first rounder for a genuine lock down key defender to fix a disaster of an area, doesn't seem like much of a risk.

Sam Power has a history of making a point of keeping a first round when bids aren’t involved.

 

[go the dogs]

I would happily go with what we have take frost as depth. 1st rounder for Butts is a joke 5 season in has 1 top 10 b&f finish and that was 9th. Pick 28 and next year's 2nd at the most.

 

[Foxman98]

It's still amazes me how much people over rate draft picks, it's as if most people have never actually looked at previous drafts including list managers. You're more likely to get a Vandermeer level player at 15 than you are an Ed Richards who was taken at that spot. A middling first rounder for a genuine lock down key defender to fix a disaster of an area, doesn't seem like much of a risk.

Which premiership team in the last decade was not predominantly built via the draft?

 

[Struggle]

Sam Power has a history of making a point of keeping a first round when bids aren’t involved.

Is that because he was desperate to hit the draft or because we haven't recruited a talent worthy of a first round pick trade price?

 

[Snarls Barkley]

If stats don't matter for KPD then we can just pocket the 1st rounder demanded of Butts and go find a state league or dfa who fits the all important age profile.

But reality is that stats do matter and Butts' 2025 stats are worse than all of Busslinger, O'Donnell and Lobb. I won't bore you with how he fares against the games elite defenders. It wouldn't be fair, butt it makes for terrible reading.

Ponying up and using a 1st rounder on Butts just for then sake of it would be folly.

Packing it up with future picks or whatever shakes out of the trade period for an established KPD would.

The question that Ive asked countless times is. Who and how?

The main stats that we have that should be looked for are defensive one on ones and the loss percentage of those one on ones. Butts was involved in far more one one ones than our three and lost far less of them (as a percentage)

1st round talk is ridiculous though. The guy hasn't been best 22 for quite a while and is far from a sure thing to improve with opportunities. In my eyes we definitely should be targeting him but certainly one that depends on the price, there is no certainty that he would stay best 22 here

If our defensive system is staying the same I'd actually expect Butts to do far worse than our main two. I think JOD could be good and could go on to be very, very good. Struggles at times because we ask him to take the attacking position and leave an abundance of space in the oppositions forward 50. Dale Morris might be able to survive in that role but very few others will

 

[goodcop badcop]

This may be a big call but Buss looks better than Weitering did at the same age and level of experience. Weitering was terrible early into his career. I’m not saying we should expect Buss to become Weitering mark 2, just that some kpd require time. Big year for Buss coming up and I’m sure he knows it. Hope he’s hitting the gym daily at the moment.

No idea how you can say that given Weitering played 49 more AFL games at this stage of his career and was used forward a lot from memory. I get you are trying to be optimistic, but this doesn't make any sense to me.

 

[Dogsman16]

Weitering was a rising star nominee in 2016 and a 3x under 22 team member.

He hit the ground running pretty strongly, in fact better than most young key defenders.

 

[Anja_Nees]

Regarding the 3 pronged attack, it’s totally normal to win it with two full time KPFs and a resting ruck.

Collingwood won it with Cox, Mihocek and Frampton (in for McStay). Geelong won it with Cameron and Hawkins, with Blicavs and Stanley floating forward. West Coast won it with Darling, Kennedy and Vardy.

There’s been discussion about Brisbane this year above but they also had Morris, Daniher and Hipwood the previous year.

I think as long as there is flexibility (ie Darcy goes into the ruck for a bit or Croft swings back if things are top heavy) it’s fine. With five on the bench you have options regardless.

What you don’t necessarily want across a whole game (and a whole season) is three 198cm plus players in the forward line.