Strategy Trade and List Management Thread Part 8 (opposition supporters - READ posting rules before posting)

[_Mike_]

Opposition supporters coming to troll , you have been warned

 

[Bald]

Sam Darcy is literally ungettable. Nothing any club could possibly offer would get the deal done. Butters isn’t far off that and they know he won’t throw the toys out of the cot, they know they’ll get the same offers next year and ultimately their preference is that he re-signs. There’s absolutely no reason for them to do a deal this year.

I’m still massively hopeful we could get him next year. The chances of it happening this year are so infinitesimal that it simply doesn’t warrant the amount of discussion it’s getting on here.

If Sam Darcy was out of contract next year and there was a lot of noise around him potentially leaving, he wouldn't be ungettable I wouldn't have thought.

 

[Bonti 5416]

people who are saying butters is not worth it obviously haven’t watched him close enough. Hes definitely worth 3 first round picks. Heart and soul player who will become the new libba in cult hero status.

Its a similar pick to treloar at the end of 2020. An absolute luxury pick, which launched us into a grand final the following year.

Only need to look at this year’s premiers to see that you can never have too many good quality mids.

As far as getting him this year is concerned, all comes down to putting together an offer too good to turn down. It feels like Gold Coast pick 7 is crucial to this. Not sure how we can get it without offering up something else besides 10 & 32. Which obviously weakens our offer for Port. Tricky one to manage.

We need some Sammy Power magic

Need to get something half decent for Buku and also not overpay for Budarick

 

[Bald Headed Flog]

When it comes to Butters, who are the players that are untouchables? For me it’s still the same as they were for Wilkie: Bont, Richards and Darcy.

Add Naughton to that list. You don’t get rid of that Leader + Elite player combination for anyone

 

[lifesaver]

Add Naughton to that list. You don’t get rid of that Leader + Elite player combination for anyone

There were 6 untouchables. Fact.

 

[Bald Headed Flog]

There were 6 untouchables. Fact.

Curious who else? If I had to limit it to 6, I’d add Dale and West

 

[BigFloppa]

Adrian Dodoro didn't want to trade two firsts for Josh Dunkley

5

Josh Dunkley

Age

28

Ht

191cm

Wt

87kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

21.8

5star

K

10.4

4star

HB

11.3

5star

M

4.3

4star

T

5.8

5star

CL

3.2

5star

D

20.7

5star

K

7.0

3star

HB

13.7

5star

M

2.3

2star

T

5.3

5star

CL

2.7

4star

D

14.2

4star

K

7.2

3star

HB

7.0

5star

M

4.8

5star

T

4.0

5star

CL

1.4

4star

when they had three in the top ten that year. They ended up with Tsatas, Cox and Perkins. I'll take a proven top 5 player in the comp over three tickets in draft lotto.

 

[0utsider]

If Sam Darcy was out of contract next year and there was a lot of noise around him potentially leaving, he wouldn't be ungettable I wouldn't have thought.

In a theoretical world where Darcy was in the exact same circumstances as Butters right now, what possible offer would we accept for him this year?

Genuine question. I don’t think there is one.

 

[Philthy1]

There no logical reason for them to let him go, whatever they get offered this year they’ll get again next year and ultimately they’d rather have him on the list.

People can disagree all they want but I’m confident I won’t be proven wrong come deadline day. He’s not leaving this year.

There are logical reasons to trade him now. But only Port will be able to answer the question.

Tassie are going to massively compromise the next few drafts, making it very difficult to plan ahead. I agree it is in their interests to try and hold on to him. However, if they feel he is going to leave, they must try and make the most of it which may involve getting the most out of it now.

 

[0utsider]

Adrian Dodoro didn't want to trade two firsts for Josh Dunkley when they had three in the top ten that year. They ended up with Tsatas, Cox and Perkins. I'll take a proven top 5 player in the comp over three tickets in draft lotto.

So would Port.

 

[Philthy1]

In a theoretical world where Darcy was in the exact same circumstances as Butters right now, what possible offer would we accept for him this year?

Genuine question. I don’t think there is one.

It's not comparable. Darcy is a 3rd generation Bulldog playing in his home state.

 

[JohnnySteel]

It's not comparable. Darcy is a 3rd generation Bulldog playing in his home state.

Also very different players. You can’t compare their trade value.

 

[0utsider]

There are logical reasons to trade him now. But only Port will be able to answer the question.

Tassie are going to massively compromise the next few drafts, making it very difficult to plan ahead. I agree it is in their interests to try and hold on to him. However, if they feel he is going to leave, they must try and make the most of it which may involve getting the most out of it now.

This years draft is both relatively weak and extremely compromised at the top end. Yet another reason for them to hold out. They might be better off taking their chances with the Tassie drafts.

 

[RWnBluey]

Sam Darcy is literally ungettable. Nothing any club could possibly offer would get the deal done. Butters isn’t far off that and they know he won’t throw the toys out of the cot, they know they’ll get the same offers next year and ultimately their preference is that he re-signs. There’s absolutely no reason for them to do a deal this year.

I’m still massively hopeful we could get him next year. The chances of it happening this year are so infinitesimal that it simply doesn’t warrant the amount of discussion it’s getting on here.

Disagree. There’s no such thing as an untouchable - especially when a player’s out of contract.
Every player has a price. It just depends how ridiculous the offer is.

What’s Darcy worth? Three, four, five, six first-rounders? Who knows. But if you throw enough draft capital at a club, eventually they’ll listen. No list manager is turning down a deal that completely reshapes their future.

 

[0utsider]

It's not comparable. Darcy is a 3rd generation Bulldog playing in his home state.

It’s a hypothetical, imagine that wasn’t the case.

 

[Anja_Nees]

Adrian Dodoro didn't want to trade two firsts for Josh Dunkley when they had three in the top ten that year. They ended up with Tsatas, Cox and Perkins. I'll take a proven top 5 player in the comp over three tickets in draft lotto.

So would I, but a bit like with Dunkley, Port risks losing him as soon as he’s out of contract, which changes things at their end.

I think trying to keep him with free agency up next year if three first rounders is on the table is bad for business.

We got bent over a bit when Dunkley actually came out of contract, same with Smith. Would have been better off moving each of them on while contracted (I don’t regret it with Dunkley given he helped us get to a GF, but would have netted a better return).

 

[Anja_Nees]

Disagree. There’s no such thing as an untouchable - especially when a player’s out of contract.
Every player has a price. It just depends how ridiculous the offer is.

What’s Darcy worth? Three, four, five, six first-rounders? Who knows. But if you throw enough draft capital at a club, eventually they’ll listen. No list manager is turning down a deal that completely reshapes their future.

I wouldn’t force Darcy out the door for a swag first rounders if I believed he was going to be loyal. I think it would damage the fabric of team.

If he made noise about leaving and was coming out of contract in 12 months I’d dive on it.

 

[Anja_Nees]

Curious who else? If I had to limit it to 6, I’d add Dale and West

I would include Freijah.

In reality it’s probably VDM.

 

[Philthy1]

It’s a hypothetical, imagine that wasn’t the case.

Butters has at least opened the door to coming back to Vic according to the Mitch Cleary report.

 

[Norm De Guerre]

There were 6 untouchables. Fact.

This is what gets lost at this time of year and explains why we'll never be able to go on an end of season player buying spree like the Saints are currently undertaking.

We might have space in the cap to bring in our usual mid-tier player. Or indeed we may be able to put a larger sum away in anticipation of bringing in a once in a lifetime recruit like Butters. Should he become available.

But the reality of having such an elite high end is that their demands have to be met and we have to be realively conservative with our TPP just to meet those ends.

I think we're in better shape list balance wise than we were in days of old when our side was carried by an elite core. But thats dependant on a lot of things going right and players developing as we'd expect. If they don't we won't have to fall far to see those mid table dog days where we are competitive but not quite good enough, to return.

 

[RWnBluey]

There no logical reason for them to let him go, whatever they get offered this year they’ll get again next year and ultimately they’d rather have him on the list.

People can disagree all they want but I’m confident I won’t be proven wrong come deadline day. He’s not leaving this year.

While I agree it’s unlikely to happen, it’s not beyond the realm of possibility.

Some logical reasons why Port might be tempted to entertain a trade this year if they know Butters is set on moving home:

- They’re not contending, so holding him for another season doesn’t align with their direction.

- There’s a risk of injury that could significantly reduce his trade value if they wait.

-Future picks offered next year are likely to be devalued by the Tassie-compromised draft.

-There’s the (admittedly small) risk of him walking to the pre-season draft if no trade eventuates.

-Trading Butters now would accelerate their rebuild and effectively put them a year ahead of where they otherwise would’ve been.

 

[Dogs_r_barking]

I think if it was a stronger draft, they might be open to it this year, but it is not strong.

 

[Mantis Toboggan]

Forcing a guy who clearly doesn't want to be there to stay is, considering his leadership position, something that will negatively affect the fabric of the club

I agree…but he could be a Dunkley type. Clearly wanted out and was no longer good mates with many teammates with whom he previously had close relationships. Yet he continued playing some of his best footy.

Not ideal, but it can work.

 

[adogsfan5]

I think if it was a stronger draft, they might be open to it this year, but it is not strong.

This is gonna hold up lots of trades which is super annoying

 

[NthBondiDoggies]

In the Tassie effected future how do points work - ie everyone’s draft picks will be pushed back considerably because of the Tassie concessions - so as a pick worth more buy what about points? A pick today in a worst draft way be worth way more than a pick in the future pushed back 5-10 places.

I assume they are worth less points too if pushed back - will make it tricky to plan and a lot of last minute? Ie with Cooney and West - we will need points to match them and looks like some very good NGA (El Souki, Harley Hicks etc).

 

[threenewpadlocks]

If Sam Darcy was out of contract next year and there was a lot of noise around him potentially leaving, he wouldn't be ungettable I wouldn't have thought.

Isn't this a bit of a silly statement because one presupposes the other? The whole reason people are calling Darcy ungettable is because there isn't a scenario in which a lot of noise would even be raised or that we would fail to extend his contract.