Strategy Trade and List Management Thread Part 8 (opposition supporters - READ posting rules before posting)

[_Mike_]

Opposition supporters coming to troll , you have been warned

 

[Chadley]

Do port do 6 + f1 + f1

 

[JTCWBFC]

obviously you have to go all in on butters if we have a shot

But if we gut our draft picks how the fk are we going to fix our defence

 

[Philthy1]

 

[CDBulldog]

I’m sure Hobbs is a great kid from the Horsham footy factory, but he’s slow, fumbly, and not good in any aspect.

Being friends with a few bombers supporters and watching their games this year, I wouldn’t even give up pick 60 for him, waste of a list spot.

Hobbs =

 

[Anja_Nees]

obviously you have to go all in on butters if we have a shot

But if we gut our draft picks how the fk are we going to fix our defence

My view is JOD, Lobb and Buss are all solid. They aren’t outstanding one on one, but tightening things up further up the ground will protect them better.

If someone who is a clear improvement becomes available then great, but it doesn’t sound like there any takers right now, and assembling a truly brilliant midfield will help in its own way.

 

[doggiesin08]

Too much for me. Surely matching to Bont would be enough to get it done, and sets a better marker for Richards, Darcy, etc.

 

[Foxman98]

Too much for me. Surely matching to Bont would be enough to get it done, and sets a better marker for Richards, Darcy, etc.

You’re poaching a top 5 player in the comp for the same St Kilda just paid for a ruckman who’s barley top 10 in his position

 

[Redders98]

What I’m surprised about from that post from Mitch Cleary is stating a $$$ figure and years length, would that suggest that we’ve actually made a formal offer to Butters or is it just an educated guess?

I’ve also heard that Butters has recently listed his Adelaide home for sale, but I’m unsure if this is true or not.

Either way, where there’s smoke there’s fire.

Interesting week or two ahead.

 

[_Cerberus_]

Port WOULD? Is he saying that Port have more than enough cap room to be able to match any offer we make?
I mean with many key players signed up. Jamarra, JJ, and potentially Treloar and Libba off the books, coupled with the space we already have now. You'd think we would have them covered? Or can teams match bids even if they do not have the cap space for the upcoming season?

 

[RWnBluey]

Too much for me. Surely matching to Bont would be enough to get it done, and sets a better marker for Richards, Darcy, etc.

He’ll be getting $2m offers from clubs. $1.3-$1.4m won’t even get you a look in

 

[MaxiBont]

Too much for me. Surely matching to Bont would be enough to get it done, and sets a better marker for Richards, Darcy, etc.

I wouldn’t be surprised if Bont took less money so we could offer this sort of contract to Butters

 

[BigFloppa]

NAS deal set the new rate for super elite players. Butters could ask for 2m a year on the open market and get it if he only cares about money. 1.7mil is prob the minimum respectable offer we could make.

 

[_Cerberus_]

He’ll be getting $2m offers from clubs. $1.3-$1.4m won’t even get you a look in

Depends. You're assuming he is definitely chasing the money. He will get bigger offers for sure. But who is to say that he may take a smaller offer to play for the team he grew up a mad fan of?

 

[RWnBluey]

Depends. You're assuming he is definitely chasing the money. He will get bigger offers for sure. But who is to say that he may take a smaller offer to play for the team he grew up a mad fan of?

In that case $1.7m would be accepting unders to play for us would it not?
$1.4m is $600k under market value x 8 =$4.8m left on the table. Can’t see how anybody would turn down that much

 

[BLACAE]

I guess 3 FR picks isn't too bad for us given we have some F/S's coming through over the next couple of years.

Cooney
West
Darcy x 2
Eagleton
Giansiracusa I think

If the concern is the shit draft this year, maybe we get 6 and move it to next year.

 

[Struggle]

1.7m next season isn't great, but 1.7m in 7 years time will be huge unders

 

[Flags_In_The_Bag]

Still beleive our main target should be Butters as this improves our overall team more than any other player. Brisbane showed again a dominant midfield wins big games.

Our issue this year is that there are very few players that a A graders in positions of need and those that may come are under contract meaning we will struggle to provide the compensation required to pry them out.

Next years first may well be needed for West and or El Houli if the rules do change.

Pick 10 and steak knives wont cut it. We need to be creative and get at least 2 firsts in the top 10 this year to entice Port Adelaide to move a year early on Butters.

Good luck to the list management team

swap our next years first with Carltons fist

 

[Proffessor]

Butters is 25 and top 5 player in the comp. He would be our clubs biggest trade by the length of flemington. We do this trade we have our midfield set for another 10+ years.

As I said, happy to have him at the club, but the price will still need to be appropriately proportionate to his value.

 

[CarnTheScray]

Still beleive our main target should be Butters as this improves our overall team more than any other player. Brisbane showed again a dominant midfield wins big games.

Our issue this year is that there are very few players that a A graders in positions of need and those that may come are under contract meaning we will struggle to provide the compensation required to pry them out.

Next years first may well be needed for West and or El Houli if the rules do change.

Pick 10 and steak knives wont cut it. We need to be creative and get at least 2 firsts in the top 10 this year to entice Port Adelaide to move a year early on Butters.

Good luck to the list management team

We had the dominant midfield in 2021. Melbourne had the next best one and Steven May.

Brisbane have that midfield and Harris Andrews.

 

[TheScriptorWL]

We had the dominant midfield in 2021.

I'm not sure about that. May wasn't the one sprinting it out 10 times uncontested in the Granny, was he? That was Petracca, Oliver, Viney. In the middle is where the game starts. It remains the heart of any good Football team. Our Defence will remain an issue regardless, especially given we have misfired again this period.

If Butts is a no-go. We have no choice but to back the Young Bucks, And If Butters remains Gettable, we should go all in for his Defensive aspects, limiting the responsibility put on that unprepared Back Half.

 

[doggiesin08]

You’re poaching a top 5 player in the comp for the same St Kilda just paid for a ruckman who’s barley top 10 in his position

The TDK deal is very clearly a roundabout way of “pick purchasing” rather than a reasonable reference point. Time will tell, but even with the current salary cap I don’t think you can pay that much to a player, let alone 2, and expect to have a balanced and competitive list.

 

[Flags_In_The_Bag]

The Western Bulldogs have acquired Pick 4 in the upcoming AFL National Draft after an opening day trade with Gold Coast Suns on Monday. The Bulldogs will receive picks 4, 46, 51 and a future third-round selection tied to Gold Coast in exchange for selections 10, 17 and the Bulldogs' future first pick in 2024

WTF?

 

[dogwatch]

When comparing Bont vs Butters salary projections we need to recognise at least five things:

1. The fact that they are half a decade apart in terms of their careers.​

2. The steeply increasing gradient of the TPP (salary cap).​

3. You typically have to pay a premium to prise a good player away from his current club.​

4. The escalating salary war that is reminiscent of the very destructive salary wars of the 1980s.​

5. The ways that some clubs are now almost openly flouting the TPP and undermining the equalising intent of it.​

1.
Bontempelli will be 30 when the 2026 season starts. Butters will be 25.

Bont's star will start fading within a year or two (hopefully only gradually!) and he may become more injury prone, while Butters is just entering his peak years and would almost certainly become a more valuable list asset within a couple of years, if not straight away.

It's therefore not hard to make a case for giving Butters the better contract ($ p.a.) right now. If there were any quibbles about it you could tinker with front loading Bont in 2026 and mid-loading Butters from around 2028 but really that would just be for appearances.

2.
Also it's not ideal to be comparing what Butters could soon be earning to what Bont was earning over the last four years. Better to think of the value of the TPP during Bont's 26-29 years and use that as a base index. What was an index value of 100 during Bont's late 20s is probably going to be 120 to 140 in the coming years when Butters will be hitting 26-29.

Or to put it another way, Bont was probably on a top 10 salary during those years and that's where Butters will be too. Times change. Inflation is high in the TPP. As Struggle pointed out, in a few years time $1.7m won't seem that much.

3.
Everyone recognises the need to pay a premium to bring in an eliteplayer from another club. That includes his salary. Provided it's not way out of kilter the Bonts, the Darcys, the Richards and the Naughtons probably aren't going to get their noses out of joint because of it. Especially if it puts a flag within reach.

4. & 5.
The salary wars are transforming the competition. You either find ways to compete or you go out backwards. At best you stay anchored to the bottom half of the table. For clubs like the Morris Finance Cotton On Cats that's a great opportunity to steal a break on the competition. For clubs like the Mission Western Bulldogs, especially if we respect the rules, it's a huge challenge.

Possibly the best legal way for us to do it is to pay comparable salaries at the top-end of the market for our elite talent (say our top 8) and hope we can draft and trade wisely to make up a highly competitive 23. And then also hope we have coaching and physical/mental conditioning staff to propel them deep into September. That means competing at or very close to market rates for Butters.

 

[Proffessor]

Jeremy Cameron worked well

That was a complicated trade where Geelong still benefiting from the left overs from the Eagles’ previously mentioned disastrous Tim Kelly trade, were able to give late first rounders (inc. pick 25 which is typically into the second round) and got back 2 future second rounders that were essentially equivalent (including pick 25!) to the late first rounders they gave up.

But don't let reality get in the way of a good story.

 

[MaxiBont]

What # will Sanders wear next year