Strategy Trade and List Management Thread Part 8 (opposition supporters - READ posting rules before posting)

[_Mike_]

Opposition supporters coming to troll , you have been warned

 

[threenewpadlocks]

I think this is what’s lost on people. Everyone just saw Butts as a KPD and assumed he is what we need.

I have a feeling Bevo & the club aren’t keen on pure lockdown KPD that offer nothing else. Guys like Keane & Wilkie can play that role but also intercept and offer a level of drive off half back.

The carry-on on this thread that Butts was this absolutely brilliant player was not simply matched by the games at AFL level that he's actually played. I felt like I was taking crazy pills thinking that this was not the same player in the Adelaide games I have actually watched over the last few years.

10 career coaches votes from 85 games in his career, for example.

Do you know which other key defender also has 10 career coaches votes?

 

[RWnBluey]

For those interested

 

[Philthy1]

Frost makes no sense people. Frost played 2 AFL games, Gardner 1 yet Gards won VFL full back of the year. Frost did not.

Frost is not an upgrade on Gards.

 

[Norm De Guerre]

The carry-on on this thread that Butts was this absolutely brilliant player was not simply matched by the games at AFL level that he's actually played. I felt like I was taking crazy pills thinking that this was not the same player in the Adelaide games I have actually watched over the last few years.

10 career coaches votes from 85 games in his career, for example.

Do you know which other key defender also has 10 career coaches votes?

I don’t know. It’s no worse than the carry-on about the clubs interest stopping at silvagni, Wilkie and Butts. When Regan said today that we were in discussions with a wide variety of kpd and that some of those talks would be ongoing. The idea that we weren’t casting a wide net was as dumb as the one where we should pay any price for anyone.

 

[Bald]

Frost makes no sense people. Frost played 2 AFL games, Gardner 1 yet Gards won VFL full back of the year. Frost did not.

Frost is not an upgrade on Gards.

Frost has shown he can play at AFL level, albeit not a world beater.

 

[Foxman98]

Frost has shown he can play at AFL level, albeit not a world beater.

He has show the same capabilities at AFL level as Gards and is just as likely if not more to have a brain fart with ball in hand,

Blight is the only one worth pursuing as he can take the role for 5+ years and not stunt the development of Buss/JOD

Frost is no better then either of them and is lucky if he has a year left

 

[Dogs_r_barking]

I think all clubs have challenges managing 18 and 19 year old young men, who have not fully matured yet.

With Smith, he came across as a dedicated athlete, with some anxiety and compulsiveness mental health issues. The club in comparison to Geelong managed him well and kept most of his behaviour under control, but it would appear lost patience with him, the contract offer was not a big one, it was a take it or leave it and I am guessing had a number of built in requirements he had to meet, he spat the dummy and went, but I haven’t got the impression the club was that concerned. We have drafted Hymes with his pick, and early progress he looks good.

Dunkley on the other hand, was by all reports Bevo’s favourite, and that hurt him and the club. What hurts more is we wasted our compensation pick on Charlie Clark.

Jamarra, we have known since he was 15, and unfortunately like a lot of kids, has gone off the rails, I think he had the additional burden of being a very rich First Nations kid. Hopefully, he realises this is his last chance and knuckles down. The solace I get from him, is that the 2020 draft was very weak, with few if any standouts, apart from Tilthorpe, Imagine if we had to stump up in last years draft, and missed out on the players we got in.

Pick 74, will hopefully be used to upgrade Baker or JOD.

 

[MaxiBont]

Frost makes no sense people. Frost played 2 AFL games, Gardner 1 yet Gards won VFL full back of the year. Frost did not.

Frost is not an upgrade on Gards.

Not just you but I’m sick of seeing the VFL full back of the year stuff as a reason why we shouldn’t get another depth player.

1) Just because a player got into the VFL team of the year doesn’t mean they are automatically better at AFL level than other VFL players.

2) This board would lose their mind if Gardner was named for a game next year.

 

[Philthy1]

For those interested

Can everyone please take a listen to this?

 

[Philthy1]

Not just you but I’m sick of seeing the VFL full back of the year stuff as a reason why we shouldn’t get another depth player.

1) Just because a player got into the VFL team of the year doesn’t mean they are automatically better at AFL level than other VFL players.

2) This board would lose their mind if Gardner was named for a game next year.

As Michael Regan is at pains to explain in the Danny Boyd podcast, we will only recruit players from other clubs if they make us better.

Recruiting a player for depth when we already have a depth player in that position does not meet the criteria of making us better.

 

[Unorth]

Not just you but I’m sick of seeing the VFL full back of the year stuff as a reason why we shouldn’t get another depth player.

1) Just because a player got into the VFL team of the year doesn’t mean they are automatically better at AFL level than other VFL players.

2) This board would lose their mind if Gardner was named for a game next year.

It’s strange how people dismissed Crossley despite his VFL dominance - and that stance was proven correct - yet Gardner dominating the vfl is somehow different?

I think it should be widely accepted that the relationship between vfl and afl form isn’t always clear. Gardner has played 1 game in 2 years and that game was a disaster. His vfl form is irrelevant at this stage. Hes old enough and has enough exposed afl form to make a final call there.

 

[Doggy]

He has show the same capabilities at AFL level as Gards and is just as likely if not more to have a brain fart with ball in hand,

Blight is the only one worth pursuing as he can take the role for 5+ years and not stunt the development of Buss/JOD

Frost is no better then either of them and is lucky if he has a year left

I believe Collingwood is into Blight. No link to the dogs.

 

[Foxman98]

It’s strange how people dismissed Crossley despite his VFL dominance - and that stance was proven correct - yet Gardner dominating the vfl is somehow different?

I think it should be widely accepted that the relationship between vfl and afl form isn’t always clear. Gardner has played 1 game in 2 years and that game was a disaster. His vfl form is irrelevant at this stage. Hes old enough and has enough exposed afl form to make a final call there.

Not really Crossley is a decent enough player just 15kg over weight and couldn't run out more then a quarter

 

[MaxiBont]

As Michael Regan is at pains to explain in the Danny Boyd podcast, we will only recruit players from other clubs if they make us better.

Recruiting a player for depth when we already have a depth player in that position does not meet the criteria of making us better.

I’m pretty sure that’s in terms of using trade assets.

Using a rookie list spot for depth for a DFA or a SSP player is something that all teams do.

 

[threenewpadlocks]

I don’t know. It’s no worse than the carry-on about the clubs interest stopping at silvagni, Wilkie and Butts. When Regan said today that we were in discussions with a wide variety of kpd and that some of those talks would be ongoing. The idea that we weren’t casting a wide net was as dumb as the one where we should pay any price for anyone.

Agreed, and the idea that any price doesn't have a cost element to it too is also frustrating.

People going on about not having good key defenders or key defenders depth as a weakness. Like, I agree, but in turn, not turning over 1-3 good young draft picks is also a weakness. It may not manifest itself for a few years, but in 5-10 years time, the draft picks you traded away now eventually reveals itself with the margins of not being able to pick good players on your list for a given game.

Butts may win us a game next year. But we might also lose a game because we didn't have a top 20 pick running around for us in 7 years time. Both have to be considered. But the latter is completely ignored.

 

[Philthy1]

It’s strange how people dismissed Crossley despite his VFL dominance - and that stance was proven correct - yet Gardner dominating the vfl is somehow different?

I think it should be widely accepted that the relationship between vfl and afl form isn’t always clear. Gardner has played 1 game in 2 years and that game was a disaster. His vfl form is irrelevant at this stage. Hes old enough and has enough exposed afl form to make a final call there.

Frost and Gardner are both spuds.

 

[Foxman98]

Agreed, and the idea that any price doesn't have a cost element to it too is also frustrating.

People going on about not having good key defenders or key defenders depth as a weakness. Like, I agree, but in turn, not turning over 1-3 good young draft picks is also a weakness. It may not manifest itself for a few years, but in 5-10 years time, the draft picks you traded away now eventually reveals itself with the margins of not being able to pick good players on your list for a given game.

Butts may win us a game next year. But we might also lose a game because we didn't have a top 20 pick running around for us in 7 years time. Both have to be considered. But the latter is completely ignored.

Perfect example happened in 2013 Western Bulldogs crying out for another forward option trade pick 26 for Stewart Crameri wins us some games in 2014 however that pick ended up being Zach Merrett and I know which one I'd prefer

 

[Foxman98]

Frost and Gardner are both spuds.

I think this is the part being missed,

They are both shit and if either play a significant role we are ****ed either way

 

[Mofra]

Perfect example happened in 2013 Western Bulldogs crying out for another forward option trade pick 26 for Stewart Crameri wins us some games in 2014 however that pick ended up being Zach Merrett and I know which one I'd prefer

We weren't really contending in 2014 though.
And there's nothing to suggest we would have picked Merrett if we kept that pick.

 

[Foxman98]

We weren't really contending in 2014 though.
And there's nothing to suggest we would have picked Merrett if we kept that pick.

Just highlighting the cause and effect

Sometimes it goes the other way and you trade pick 6 for Jessie Hogan who gets traded for Steven May who ends up being Ben King

 

[Distinctive_]

Cal Twomey expects Zak Butters

9

Zak Butters

Age

25

Ht

181cm

Wt

77kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

14.3

4star

K

7.7

3star

HB

6.7

4star

M

3.0

3star

T

2.6

4star

CL

0.8

3star

D

14.7

4star

K

8.9

4star

HB

5.9

3star

M

3.9

4star

T

2.9

4star

CL

1.1

3star

D

17.0

5star

K

9.0

4star

HB

8.0

5star

M

3.6

4star

T

1.6

4star

CL

0.6

3star

to be in Victoria in 2027 with the doggies leading the race

 

[TiAn_]

For those interested

We’ve done so well bringing Regan in. Very confident that he’s going to do good things with the list.

 

[Scragger77]

Will we restructure contracts for next year to free up space 2027 and beyond?

 

[Northernsoul74]

Frost makes no sense people. Frost played 2 AFL games, Gardner 1 yet Gards won VFL full back of the year. Frost did not.

Frost is not an upgrade on Gards.

Being behind Battle and Barass is no shame. He was good the year before. He’s shown he can play at AFL level where as Gardner goes to pieces. He’s limited but he’s fine if he plays within himself, I don’t mind it.

 

[Foxman98]

We’ve done so well bringing Regan in. Very confident that he’s going to do good things with the list.

List building is a long term approach which he seems to really understand,

Him and Power make a great duo