List Mgmt. Trade/Draft/Targets Part II

[4tune8]

Nahhhhh, it is as silly as it sounds - soz!

Agree.....sounds like Magic is starting to infect peeps with his shrooms

 

[_RT_]

So in essence your arguing weather Broad will play making 8 talls or not.Or weather we have 14 instead of 15 sml/med types. As i said we arent too far apart when its all done and dusted.
Personally i dont think Broad will be dropped and im damn sure when he is ready Rance will play.
Why dont i think Broad will be dropped.

When Rance was fit we played all 4 of Rance, Astbury, Broad, and Grimes.The simple fact is, including 2017 when Broad established himself in the team and played the last 10 games, the only time the club have not played the 4 talls down back is when injury or suspension has hit.
Check it out for yourself.
So its not my structure bud its very much the clubs.It is very much the preferred structure along with two KPF,S riewoldt Lynch, and and now the two up to standard ruckmen. Its a fact When we have had the players uninjured or they have reached the level we have played em.Its clearly the desired structure of the club.

So wheres the lack of run with the following

B/ Grimes - Astbury - Vlastuin
HB/ Broad - Rance - Houli That was the set up from rnd 16 2017 to rnd 1 2019 when all were available.It most likely wont change when all are available again. though i could live with one or two changes but thats neither here nor there.

R/ Soldo - Martin - Prestia
C/ Caddy - Cotchin - Pickett

HF/ Lambert - Riewoldt - Edwards
FF/ Castagna - Lynch - Rioli

INT/ Nankervis - Baker - Bolton - Short.

The only difference fron the 19 g/f is
out - Ellis
Ins - Rance

Some other changes that should happen Imo
INS- Graham, Stack, Ross
Out - Baker, Short, and one other.Its a favorite son so i wont say his name to save the arguments that will invariably happen. At the end of the day its an opinion on one player.
We dont lose run or spread, those coming in offer that, but we gain size, strength,improved defense, midfield rotations to go with it.

As stated the only change in structure making 8 talls from the g/f is Rance in Ellis out.
The only real changes from the 2017 to 2019 g/f is the addition of Lynch as a key forward and the addition of the second ruck Soldo. playing Grigg in that role was never the want of the club it was not ideal and they changed it as soon as a competent option came along.

My point is that I don't see us going down the path of playing 10-12 that offer little in the way of run and spread when we have the footy.

I think they have seen how devastating having a more mobile side is and will look at taking that a step further.

As you say we're not far apart, but I see the side with Broad being the unlucky one to make way for Rance and Stack coming in for Ellis.

In my ideal side I have:

B: Grimes Astbury Rance
HB: Houli Vlastuin Short
C: Pickett Prestia Caddy
HF: Castagna Riewoldt Bolton
F: Rioli Lynch Cotchin
R: Soldo Martin Edwards
INT: Nankervis/CCJ/Chol Graham Lambert Stack/Baker

Astbury and Rance play the KPD positions. Vlastuin and Grimes mobile 3rd tall types Houli Short Baker/Stack the rebounding defenders.

In the middle Prestia Martin and Edwards are the ball winning mids rotating with Cotchin Lambert Graham. Caddy plays the defensive wing role, with Pickett playing as a hybrid midfielder.

Rioli Bolton and Castagna are the small forwards who can also play through the midfield. Jack and Lynch the KPF.

Rucks are Soldo and one of CCJ/Chol/Nankervis with my preferred option being CCJ as the ruck/forward.

As I said Sunday, I see us looking at becoming a more flexible side, with players capable of playing multiple roles and being able to change up roles through the game.

In your line up we become a more stagnant side, especially in the D50.

 

[Rumballs]

Not really sure what goes on behind closed doors, but Bartel has been critical in the media of Scott's management approach for a couple of years.
Something's gone on, perhaps a series of decisions, we are not privy to.

My understanding is Bartel was told he was done by text, no face to face. Soured whatever was left of his relationship with Scott. Good source.

 

[ivansarmy]

When you break our list down we really do have a lot of flexibility and ridiculous amount of depth. I think we will just draft best available regardless of position. But good chance that there is a key position player that we rate highly at 38, 39 or 41. Having three picks together like that will be exciting come draft night.

Possible AFL
B Grimes Astbury Broad
HB Houli Rance Vlaustin
C Caddy Martin Lambert
HF Edwards Riewoldt Bolton
F Castagna Lynch Rioli
Foll Soldo Cotchin Prestia
Int Graham Short Pickett Nankervis

Possible VFL before draft night
B Eggy Garthwaite .....
HB Baker Balta Mcintosh
C. Naish Ross Turner
HF Higgins Chol Stack
F. Aarts Miller Markov
Foll Coleman-Jones Collier-Dawkins English
Int

 

[4tune8]

Why a Swan's axing is about to become a major talking point

Cody Hirst isn't necessarily a household name. However, he is about to become one of the League's most interesting case studies

www.afl.com.au

I think that the major talking point about Hirst' situation wasn't actually talked about in the article.

There's a shitload of clubs up in arms about losing their best players midway through the year, which severely impacts their ability to contend in the local leagues.

ie; this statement from West Adelaide CEO with regard to losing Noble and Snelling....

Club Statement: Mid-Season Draft - West Adelaide Football Club

westadelaidefc.com.au

and this from the SANFL

SANFL slams AFL mid-season draft

South Australian state league clubs want the AFL's mid-season draft scrapped, saying it compromises their competition.

www.theage.com.au

Imagine the melts and salt if it was abolished now that we have Pickett

 

[Barunga Bullet]

would Lachie Henderson be an option as a low $$$ back up option in case we get more injuries again?

 

[THE_GUN]

would Lachie Henderson be an option as a low $$$ back up option in case we get more injuries again?

No too slow and another player thats mentally scarred by Richmond

 

[Drofder]

No too slow and another player thats mentally scarred by Richmond

Fat. Slow. Old. Done.

 

[Barunga Bullet]

So in essence your arguing weather Broad will play making 8 talls or not.Or weather we have 14 instead of 15 sml/med types. As i said we arent too far apart when its all done and dusted.
Personally i dont think Broad will be dropped and im damn sure when he is ready Rance will play.
Why dont i think Broad will be dropped.

When Rance was fit we played all 4 of Rance, Astbury, Broad, and Grimes.The simple fact is, including 2017 when Broad established himself in the team and played the last 10 games, the only time the club have not played the 4 talls down back is when injury or suspension has hit.
Check it out for yourself.
So its not my structure bud its very much the clubs.It is very much the preferred structure along with two KPF,S riewoldt Lynch, and and now the two up to standard ruckmen. Its a fact When we have had the players uninjured or they have reached the level we have played em.Its clearly the desired structure of the club.

So wheres the lack of run with the following

B/ Grimes - Astbury - Vlastuin
HB/ Broad - Rance - Houli That was the set up from rnd 16 2017 to rnd 1 2019 when all were available.It most likely wont change when all are available again. though i could live with one or two changes but thats neither here nor there.

R/ Soldo - Martin - Prestia
C/ Caddy - Cotchin - Pickett

HF/ Lambert - Riewoldt - Edwards
FF/ Castagna - Lynch - Rioli

INT/ Nankervis - Baker - Bolton - Short.

The only difference fron the 19 g/f is
out - Ellis
Ins - Rance

Some other changes that should happen Imo
INS- Graham, Stack, Ross
Out - Baker, Short, and one other.Its a favorite son so i wont say his name to save the arguments that will invariably happen. At the end of the day its an opinion on one player.
We dont lose run or spread, those coming in offer that, but we gain size, strength,improved defense, midfield rotations to go with it.

As stated the only change in structure making 8 talls from the g/f is Rance in Ellis out.
The only real changes from the 2017 to 2019 g/f is the addition of Lynch as a key forward and the addition of the second ruck Soldo. playing Grigg in that role was never the want of the club it was not ideal and they changed it as soon as a competent option came along.

man up! who is it?

 

[mopsy]

My point is that I don't see us going down the path of playing 10-12 that offer little in the way of run and spread when we have the footy.

I think they have seen how devastating having a more mobile side is and will look at taking that a step further.

As you say we're not far apart, but I see the side with Broad being the unlucky one to make way for Rance and Stack coming in for Ellis.

In my ideal side I have:

B: Grimes Astbury Rance
HB: Houli Vlastuin Short
C: Pickett Prestia Caddy
HF: Castagna Riewoldt Bolton
F: Rioli Lynch Cotchin
R: Soldo Martin Edwards
INT: Nankervis/CCJ/Chol Graham Lambert Stack/Baker

Astbury and Rance play the KPD positions. Vlastuin and Grimes mobile 3rd tall types Houli Short Baker/Stack the rebounding defenders.

In the middle Prestia Martin and Edwards are the ball winning mids rotating with Cotchin Lambert Graham. Caddy plays the defensive wing role, with Pickett playing as a hybrid midfielder.

Rioli Bolton and Castagna are the small forwards who can also play through the midfield. Jack and Lynch the KPF.

Rucks are Soldo and one of CCJ/Chol/Nankervis with my preferred option being CCJ as the ruck/forward.

As I said Sunday, I see us looking at becoming a more flexible side, with players capable of playing multiple roles and being able to change up roles through the game.

In your line up we become a more stagnant side, especially in the D50.

Sorry but i disagree. I think we have shown a willingness to when possible play bigger and taller. Hence we play Lynch, it wasnt ideal playing just JR.We now have a contributing second kpf that was always the aim of the club.
The sole reason We played just JR in 17, was because we didnt have another tall fwd at the required level.So we played a small who could make a contribution rather than a tall who offered nothing. this was always going to change and it did thru F/A not by developing one of our own.

We now play two ruckmen because Soldo has stepped up to the level it wasnt ideal playing Grigg in the role..Everyone knew it and everyone knew it was going to change. Imo we played small not out of choice but neccessity.

We have two very promising young talls who we will need to get games into and they will get plenty of games if they show they are ready.
Playing Balta instead of say Baker or Broad how does that effect our pace and run. He is more athletic, agile, bigger, stronger and quicker and he will continue to build his tank. 13 games last yr for the life of me we wont imo leave him wallowing in the seconds we will endevour to get more games into him.

If and when CC-J is right to go he will come in spend a lot of time fwd at the expense of one of Nankervis or Soldo. They arent going to drop JR or TL to fit him in. Once again we improve agility and pace.

We bought onto the list Ross and RC-D two big bodied mids. Two types most agreed we are lacking nothings changed in this. I have no doubt Ross will play plenty of games next yr and become a regular.Preferably we ease him into his career on a wing an infinately quicker player than Caddy.

Imo as soon as RC-D shows he is ready he will play as well. Im not sure how playing these two we lose pace and run. they arent slow and they are natural mids. RC-D has work to do on his motor but WHEN he builds it he will play. Hes explosive and big.How is this getting smaller or even slower. He is as quick as some of the mids we play.

I actually cant see us getting smaller, in fact when its been possible we have tracked toward getting bigger. Getting bigger really doesnt mean we get slower or have less run.But this is peoples perception for some reason.

i think what the club has done well is identify when talls wont offer enough, better to play smalls instead who will make a contribution.
That doesnt mean the aim is not to get bigger.It has meant we have not had the talls who could offer enough at the time or just have not come on, And there is plenty who have not come on we actually bhave tried to go with a diferent structure plenty of times.

Lastly i dont see how having 16 talls on the list detracts from having enough places for sml/med flankers and mids. Not if the club is in the business of smooth transition and developing your own. LOL thats 30 odd spots for mids and flankers and thats not enough!!!! i really do have to chuckle at that one because its utter nonsense..

Who was the last very good tall to come thru our system. Grimes 09 Astbury 09 Rance 07, Riewoldt 06.We go back 10 yrs to 09 when we drafted Astbury and Grimes in the psd. Can you name one very good tall we have developed having taken them thru the nd or rookie draft other than the 4 mentioned since Hardwick has been there.
IMO there isnt one and theres a good reason for that you reap what you sow. Or if it's a minimal investment your only going to get a minimal return. Our returns on tall investment thru the rookie/nd has indeed been minimal since 2010.

The best returns have come thru mature recruits Lynch, Nankervis and Maric.

This is something i have always stated. give or take one or two in each category we should structure the list the following way.
Some of the positions people will disagree with at the end of the day we all dont agree on everything.This is my opinion and where i see each player performing their role.

KPD 4 Rance Astbury, Balta, Miller.

KPF 4 Riewoldt, Lynch

Third tall types 4

DEF Grimes, Broad, Garthwaite.
FWD ######


RUCK 2, Nankervis, Soldo

RUCK/FWD 2. C-CJ, Chol.

Mids 18. I count 16 inside and outside mids on the list a lot of them perform secondary roles.

sml/med def 6. Houli, Vlastuin, Short, Baker, Stack, DE-S, Pickett.
sml/med fwd 6. Castagna, Rioli, Markov, we have an abundance of mids who perform this role as well. Bolton,Caddy, Edwards, Lambert, Martin.

 

[Phar Ace]

Why a Swan's axing is about to become a major talking point

Cody Hirst isn't necessarily a household name. However, he is about to become one of the League's most interesting case studies

www.afl.com.au

I think that the major talking point about Hirst' situation wasn't actually talked about in the article.

There's a shitload of clubs up in arms about losing their best players midway through the year, which severely impacts their ability to contend in the local leagues.

Of course not, it was on afl.com. It's gotta be a good thing when the AFL rapes and pillages, surely?

 

[Calcium Man]

Why a Swan's axing is about to become a major talking point

Cody Hirst isn't necessarily a household name. However, he is about to become one of the League's most interesting case studies

www.afl.com.au

I think that the major talking point about Hirst' situation wasn't actually talked about in the article.

There's a shitload of clubs up in arms about losing their best players midway through the year, which severely impacts their ability to contend in the local leagues.

ie; this statement from West Adelaide CEO with regard to losing Noble and Snelling....

Club Statement: Mid-Season Draft - West Adelaide Football Club

westadelaidefc.com.au

and this from the SANFL

SANFL slams AFL mid-season draft

South Australian state league clubs want the AFL's mid-season draft scrapped, saying it compromises their competition.

www.theage.com.au

Imagine the melts and salt if it was abolished now that we have Pickett

State comps do the exact same thing with local leagues so cry me a river.

it’s ultimately the players choice to move up a level.

 

[Funky Chicken]

would Lachie Henderson be an option as a low $$$ back up option in case we get more injuries again?

I can only assume that you haven't seen the preliminary final yet in order to make such a suggestion.

 

[Mr Unbelievable]

would Lachie Henderson be an option as a low $$$ back up option in case we get more injuries again?

Will be useful if he lost weight, so we can use him as a point post ....

For Auskick at half time ......

 

[Ancient Tiger]

would Lachie Henderson be an option as a low $$$ back up option in case we get more injuries again?

Only if he lost 10kg and 10 years.

 

[Drunken Wookie]

Only if he lost 10kg and 10 years.

So it's a maybe?

 

[tora tora tora]

State comps do the exact same thing with local leagues so cry me a river.

it’s ultimately the players choice to move up a level.

Exactly. The local clubs are going to stand in the way of a Pickett or the Essendon player who both played good finals football? (And to make a bit more money.) I think that our bottom end of our VFL list goes up and down to the local Melbourne comps. Depending on AFL listed players being available or not. One player was up and down to Keilor. I know there's pretty good money for players at that level.
The SANFL gripe comes from the club that was on the bottom of the ladder.

 

[Schlurp]

Sorry but i disagree. I think we have shown a willingness to when possible play bigger and taller. Hence we play Lynch, it wasnt ideal playing just JR.We now have a contributing second kpf that was always the aim of the club.
The sole reason We played just JR in 17, was because we didnt have another tall fwd at the required level.So we played a small who could make a contribution rather than a tall who offered nothing. this was always going to change and it did thru F/A not by developing one of our own.

We now play two ruckmen because Soldo has stepped up to the level it wasnt ideal playing Grigg in the role..Everyone knew it and everyone knew it was going to change. Imo we played small not out of choice but neccessity.

We have two very promising young talls who we will need to get games into and they will get plenty of games if they show they are ready.
Playing Balta instead of say Baker or Broad how does that effect our pace and run. He is more athletic, agile, bigger, stronger and quicker and he will continue to build his tank. 13 games last yr for the life of me we wont imo leave him wallowing in the seconds we will endevour to get more games into him.

If and when CC-J is right to go he will come in spend a lot of time fwd at the expense of one of Nankervis or Soldo. They arent going to drop JR or TL to fit him in. Once again we improve agility and pace.

We bought onto the list Ross and RC-D two big bodied mids. Two types most agreed we are lacking nothings changed in this. I have no doubt Ross will play plenty of games next yr and become a regular.Preferably we ease him into his career on a wing an infinately quicker player than Caddy.

Imo as soon as RC-D shows he is ready he will play as well. Im not sure how playing these two we lose pace and run. they arent slow and they are natural mids. RC-D has work to do on his motor but WHEN he builds it he will play. Hes explosive and big.How is this getting smaller or even slower. He is as quick as some of the mids we play.

I actually cant see us getting smaller, in fact when its been possible we have tracked toward getting bigger. Getting bigger really doesnt mean we get slower or have less run.But this is peoples perception for some reason.

i think what the club has done well is identify when talls wont offer enough, better to play smalls instead who will make a contribution.
That doesnt mean the aim is not to get bigger.It has meant we have not had the talls who could offer enough at the time or just have not come on, And there is plenty who have not come on we actually bhave tried to go with a diferent structure plenty of times.

Lastly i dont see how having 16 talls on the list detracts from having enough places for sml/med flankers and mids. Not if the club is in the business of smooth transition and developing your own. LOL thats 30 odd spots for mids and flankers and thats not enough!!!! i really do have to chuckle at that one because its utter nonsense..

Who was the last very good tall to come thru our system. Grimes 09 Astbury 09 Rance 07, Riewoldt 06.We go back 10 yrs to 09 when we drafted Astbury and Grimes in the psd. Can you name one very good tall we have developed having taken them thru the nd or rookie draft other than the 4 mentioned since Hardwick has been there.
IMO there isnt one and theres a good reason for that you reap what you sow. Or if it's a minimal investment your only going to get a minimal return. Our returns on tall investment thru the rookie/nd has indeed been minimal since 2010.

The best returns have come thru mature recruits Lynch, Nankervis and Maric.

This is something i have always stated. give or take one or two in each category we should structure the list the following way.
Some of the positions people will disagree with at the end of the day we all dont agree on everything.This is my opinion and where i see each player performing their role.

KPD 4 Rance Astbury, Balta, Miller.

KPF 4 Riewoldt, Lynch

Third tall types 4

DEF Grimes, Broad, Garthwaite.
FWD ######


RUCK 2, Nankervis, Soldo

RUCK/FWD 2. C-CJ, Chol.

Mids 18. I count 16 inside and outside mids on the list a lot of them perform secondary roles.

sml/med def 6. Houli, Vlastuin, Short, Baker, Stack, DE-S, Pickett.
sml/med fwd 6. Castagna, Rioli, Markov, we have an abundance of mids who perform this role as well. Bolton,Caddy, Edwards, Lambert, Martin.

Agree Mopsy. I think we have now established the template for how we want to play the game and we recruit and develop players to fit that model. The two KPF and two tap rucks were always part of that model but while our options for the second players were Vickery and Griffiths/Hampson, we couldn't use it. Hence five rather than four small forwards and Grigg as second ruck. I also suspect that improvements to the model will come through introducing bigger bodies but only if those bodies can at the very least do what our current smaller players can produce. Anyone who wants to push a Short, Baker or Stack out of the side will have to prove that their inclusion will improve the team's performance. Our 2019 model is structured chaos rather than British Bulldog madness from 2017 and looks totally intimidating. We've never been better placed to try new combinations and I can't wait to see what Dimma produces during the upcoming preseason competition.

 

[Marcel Proust]

wot about; concussion Paddy McCartin or very old man Wells, instead of bennell , for the maverick weller spot

 

[Drunken Wookie]

wot about; concussion Paddy McCartin or very old man Wells, instead of bennell , for the maverick weller spot

I reckon we should think outside the box and draft a cardboard box.

 

[Schlurp]

I reckon we should think outside the box and draft a cardboard box.

Into which we could put Schrodinger's Cat.

 

[guruisatiger]

Into which we could put Schrodinger's Cat.

Is that the same as the Geelong cats ??

 

[LC_15]

So it's a maybe?

 

[LC_15]

Btw..dont want him at the club, just cant pass this opportunity

 

[Barnard]

Was reported some time ago that we were 1 of the clubs that had spoken to Sam Murray. Does anybody know if we are still interested? He wouldn't be the worst option on the rookie list.