List Mgmt. Trade & Draft UltraThread- Warning, May Contain Speculation

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Godfather32

Brownlow Medallist
Jan 13, 2013
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Williams quiety re-signed by us until 2022. I might be off the reservation but rate him as high as Brander (and I rate Brander highly). Gem
Keen on him getting some games next year, I think if Nic Nat gets (and stays) fit then Williams would be a great option to pair up with him.
 

Eastcoasteagle

Club Legend
Oct 20, 2017
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I agree. I was actually hoping for Berry or Venables at the draft, so was happy with the pick.

Venables’ seeming lack of development in the middle last year has me concerned that we won’t reach what I’d hoped when we selected him. His injuries have certainly held him back. But I’d like to point out that in the first game last season against Sydney, Venables started the first bounce... not on a flank... but right in the guts. The Match Committee clearly rated him after a full pre-season as a potential midfielder. Maybe that has changed following a somewhat stagnant season last year, but at the start of 2018 he was definitely being groomed as a mid. I hope he gets a full preseason next year.
Yeah, then he got that injury in round 4 vs Suns and only came back as a hff after that. I'm still think he'll be a good mid.
 

AsterixTheGaul

Plucked from the Amos
Sep 12, 2013
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Berry has been one of those draftees that excelled in the AFL environment. Nobody would be predicted he'd improve like he has. At draft time he was considered very vanilla HBF who didnt have much scope to improve as others (Venables for example had much higher expected scope for improvement).
That is s load of crap. Not sure whether you are being obtuse and deliberately s**tstiring or you were living under s rock in 2016.
 

TOA.

Premiership Player
Oct 30, 2006
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That is s load of crap. Not sure whether you are being obtuse and deliberately s**tstiring or you were living under s rock in 2016.
No need to get angry. He was a bloke who already had an AFL level endurance and was seen as one of the most professional players in the draft class but only averaged 17 touches in the TAC. He was seen as a better prospect the year before he was draft so I'm sure there were queries about his scope for improvement given he had declined in his draft year - which is not uncommon as some blokes get found out when others catch up. I am not bagging him at all and I am not s**t stirring.
 

Monocle

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Sep 18, 2003
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Claremont. New England Patriots.
No need to get angry. He was a bloke who already had an AFL level endurance and was seen as one of the most professional players in the draft class but only averaged 17 touches in the TAC. He was seen as a better prospect the year before he was draft so I'm sure there were queries about his scope for improvement given he had declined in his draft year - which is not uncommon as some blokes get found out when others catch up. I am not bagging him at all and I am not s**t stirring.
Not sure how much you know of Berry's history and background.
Maybe his well documented struggles could explain the difference between his two years in the TAC cup comp and the subsequent match day stats.

Lost his mother to breast cancer in 2014.
Consequently moved to Boarding school in 2015 and played well at the Rebels, but at the end of the season popped his AC joint, so had a limited pre season in 2016 , that set him back in his start to the 2016 season.
This probably explained his drop in numbers in the front half of the season........ but like you say he "got found out as some other blokes catch up".
The longer the 2016 season went the better he got.... put in a massive combine, funny thing is there is no metric or test at the Combine that measure desire or pluck of a player.

So the queries about his scope for improvement, could be understood and factored in given his history, by more astute draft watchers.

Like others have said stats are handy but with out the colouring around them they don't always tell the true story.
 
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twce13

Premiership Player
Apr 29, 2012
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That is s load of crap. Not sure whether you are being obtuse and deliberately s**tstiring or you were living under s rock in 2016.
Berry and vanila was def being thrown around a lot in these parts in 2016, dont shoot the messanger.

Thats the problem i have with phantom drafts in general. Some of these forum experts throw a buzz word or two and half the forum recyle opinions on players after watching nothing more then a few mins of highlights.

I love how people bring up that player they advocated for in some draft years ago. At least bring up all the dud players you wanted.over the last half decade also.. :p thats the thing about drafting, its not one pick in isolation.

Anyway whoever said happy to let brandner go in a trade for kelly if it meant keeping one of our first rnd picks, yuk. Classic case of overrating a draft pick. Hopefully the club has more sense then that.
 

CM9000

BigFooty Optimist
Aug 19, 2016
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You may have labeled him that way but you would have been mistaken. The proof is now in the pudding.
I don't think "everyone" wanted SPP. Berry had a fair few supporters on here.
I haven't labelled him a failure. I've acknowledged, two posts ago, that he has time to turn it around FFS. I don't think, based on what we've seen so far, that he is likely to ever develop the ball winning ability or tank required to become a good midfielder. He's more likely to settle as a forward.
In terms of making it as a midfielder, I think you pretty much have. That's where we expect (and want him) to end up.

And I was wrong about Berry, but he's turned out better than I think many people on here (predraft) thought he would. Personally, it was SPP or bust for me, so I'm not exactly disagreeing with you. However, you gotta give Venners a bit more time - it's just far too small a sample size to completely say he won't become a midfielder.
 

Godfather32

Brownlow Medallist
Jan 13, 2013
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Would hate to lose Petch. Has only been playing footy a couple years now so has plenty of scope to improve. Has hardly put a foot wrong so far.
I wouldn't say he's hardly put a foot wrong. He's a very, very good athlete but he doesn't have the football awareness to match it. Plays a fast but dumb game alot of the time
 

AsterixTheGaul

Plucked from the Amos
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Not sure how much you know of Berry's history and background.
Maybe his well documented struggles could explain the difference between his two years in the TAC cup comp and the subsequent match day stats.

Lost his mother to breast cancer in 2014.
Consequently moved to Boarding school in 2015 and played well at the Rebels, but at the end of the season popped his AC joint, so had a limited pre season in 2016 , that set him back in his start to the 2016 season.
This probably explained his drop in numbers in the front half of the season........ but like you say he "got found out as some other blokes catch up".
The longer the 2016 season went the better he got.... put in a massive combine, funny thing is there is no metric or test at the Combine that measure desire or pluck of a player.

So the queries about his scope for improvement, could be understood and factored in given his history, by more astute draft watchers.

Like others have said stats are handy but with out the colouring around them they don't always tell the true story.
Good overview - you summed up Berry’s 2 years at the u18 level pretty well. I recall catching up and we watched him for Vic Country and saw plenty in his game to like. His bottom age year was very good and not dissimilar to Cerra.
 

Yamumluvsbigcox

Norm Smith Medallist
Oct 22, 2012
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You have just summed up Venners as well ..


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app
Nah venners is nothing like petch . Venables hard work defensively brings others into the game and his involvement creates opportunity for the team .
Petch is more of the one on the end of the good work . Doesnt run as hard defensively as he does when going towards goals
 

Fletcher25

All Australian
May 30, 2018
970
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Nah venners is nothing like petch . Venables hard work defensively brings others into the game and his involvement creates opportunity for the team .
Petch is more of the one on the end of the good work . Doesnt run as hard defensively as he does when going towards goals
Petch is awesome trade bait IMO. His value is seriously inflated at the moment. He looks good in a team of premium forwards and midfielders.

It's really hard to hit a target when you're running full-tilt, which is his only trick. He's superfluous to the team right now.
 

RanaNaved

Senior List
Feb 15, 2019
219
321
AFL Club
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Berry and vanila was def being thrown around a lot in these parts in 2016, dont shoot the messanger.

Thats the problem i have with phantom drafts in general. Some of these forum experts throw a buzz word or two and half the forum recyle opinions on players after watching nothing more then a few mins of highlights.

I love how people bring up that player they advocated for in some draft years ago. At least bring up all the dud players you wanted.over the last half decade also.. :p thats the thing about drafting, its not one pick in isolation.

Anyway whoever said happy to let brandner go in a trade for kelly if it meant keeping one of our first rnd picks, yuk. Classic case of overrating a draft pick. Hopefully the club has more sense then that.
That was me re Brander. Not so much overrating a first rounder, more not really rating Brander highly.

Reminds me of a hot version of Cale Morton
 

AsterixTheGaul

Plucked from the Amos
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So we currently sit picks 16, 22, 35 and 60 (plus later picks)

2 possible deals to consider:

1. Tim Kelly expecting to be costing 2 first picks
2. Petruccelle being lured to Carlton or Doggies and getting a second rounder

Dealing with the Petruccelle, if he is to go then he is in contract and we can expect a decent trade. I would be keen on looking at Carlton with their Adelaide pick (currently 10) for Petruccelle and we give back pick 22 (Carlton have had enough early picks and I expect they might be open to it). Points wise this is equivalent to pick 34. Pick 34 alone is unders but given it means we get to pick 10, then the offset is ok.

Alternatively the Doggies have pick 27 which would be OK but not enough for an under contract rising star player in contract. I would want 27 and a swap of our pick 60 and Doggies pick 45 valuing Petruccelle at pick 21 (Doggies currently have picks 42, 44 and 45)
727112


So I would like to see us use our 2020 first rounder and our our 2019 first round on Kelly. This would leave us with

a) In Kelly Out Petruccelle with picks 10, 35 and 60 if Pet goes to Carlton
or
b) In Kelly Out Petruccelle with picks 22, 27, 35 and 45 if Pet goes to Doggies

Under both scenarios we also lose 2020 first rounder

A variation would be in the Kelly trade to hand over pick 10 this year and the Sydney pick (22) leaving us with 16, 35 and 60 and 2020 in tact.
 

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dewcefault

Team Captain
Aug 16, 2009
343
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Dealing with the Petruccelle...
It's interesting if Petrol decides he wants to leave what they determine his value to be.
He was drafted at around pick 38, in a strong draft. Has only improved over the last 2 seasons and is currently getting a game for the premiers and will potentially play finals in a top 4 team. Contracted. Would get a game in most forward lines in the league. In fact, would be hard pressed to think of a team he wouldn't be best 22 (probably in the 18-25 range of players picked). His value has surely increased a fair bit.

It would be a shame to lose him but if he has an amazing offer it'd be hard to keep him. His improvement between last year and this year has been fantastic. His positioning has improved as have his defensive efforts, he's not far off bringing it all together. On the Backchat podcast Jetta mentioned he's been mentoring him and telling him to just back his pace, don't worry about getting caught. It's been showing in his game more. Once Jetta teaches him to kick, he'll be a star!
 

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