List Mgmt. Trade & Draft UltraThread- Warning, May Contain Speculation #combinethethreads

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BOND 007

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Oct 6, 2008
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I am glad you did not ask for patience because 2013 was the last time we drafted a best 22 midfielder.

I won't give you someone too early in the draft because it is unrealistic, -------


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Hmm

Lets revisit 2014 - Duggan @ 11 - I think a correct choice with Ellis the only claim after that.
Lamb didn't work out but that was not a talent thing.
Can't see an inside mid (with speed & kicking ability) after #11 although Caleb Daniels deserves a mention.
Note - The selection of Nelson deserves credit.

2015 - traded for Redden (an inside mid with kicking skills)
Can't see an inside mid of note after #28. Maybe Menegola maybe. In fact Oliver & Hopper probably only ones in entire draft.

2016 - venables @13 with Berry @ 17 & SPP @ 18 only other inside mids. I accept English, Hayward, Fisher were there after that but none are inside mids.

2017 - successful draft.

I know you're strong on Berry but if we accept that was a miss - I'm not sure exactly what WC should have done differently in those drafts.
 

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beatlesmith

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Berry is the one that hurts the most.

He seemed like the perfect choice for us - tall, athletic midfielder with a big tank and leadership qualities. I was plugging him hard pre-draft.

Now he's an important cog in a very good team, averaging more touches than Venables has ever collected in an AFL or WAFL game (IIRC).

Venables has time to turn it around but it's looking like a big whiff of a pick, particularly given that it was a left field choice to begin with.
 

CM9000

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Berry is the one that hurts the most.

He seemed like the perfect choice for us - tall, athletic midfielder with a big tank and leadership qualities. I was plugging him hard pre-draft.

Now he's an important cog in a very good team, averaging more touches than Venables has ever collected in an AFL or WAFL game (IIRC).

Venables has time to turn it around but it's looking like a big whiff of a pick, particularly given that it was a left field choice to begin with.

Really? If I remember correctly, many on here were worried we were going to pick Berry as the safe option - a HBF with midfield potential. It was actually a bit of a joke at the time.
 

beatlesmith

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Really? If I remember correctly, many on here were worried we were going to pick Berry as the safe option - a HBF with midfield potential. It was actually a bit of a joke at the time.
He was considered the safe option compared to the other popular candidate - Powell-Pepper.
From memory, he played as a HBF for Vic Country in his draft year because of how strong the Vic Country midfield was (McLuggage, Worpel, LDU). He had plenty of exposed form as a midfielder in the TAC Cup.
I thought he was the sensible pick (in terms of what attributes the club seems to value) while having a lot of upside in terms of size and athleticism.
The fact that we departed from two very obvious midfield options in Berry and Powell-Pepper to take Venables is the frustrating thing.
The guy we ended up with has not developed the tank or the ball winning ability necessary to be a midfielder, and odds are he never will.
 

CM9000

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He was considered the safe option compared to the other popular candidate - Powell-Pepper.
From memory, he played as a HBF for Vic Country in his draft year because of how strong the Vic Country midfield was (McLuggage, Worpel, LDU). He had plenty of exposed form as a midfielder in the TAC Cup.
I thought he was the sensible pick (in terms of what attributes the club seems to value) while having a lot of upside in terms of size and athleticism.
The fact that we departed from two very obvious midfield options in Berry and Powell-Pepper to take Venables is the frustrating thing.
The guy we ended up with has not developed the tank or the ball winning ability necessary to be a midfielder, and odds are he never will.

I'm not sure what you thought then, but Berry was labeled a HBF with midfield potential (if I remember correctly). He was a bit similar to Duggan in this regard, and many on here worried he was exactly the type of safe pick the club would take (him or Gallucci). I distinctively recall everyone wanting SPP (and I still do) because he was a pure midfielder.

Anyway, this is all ignoring the fact that you're pretty much labling a third year player who's struggled with injury as a failure. I didn't want Venables either, but you can't say he won't make it already. Many supporters were calling Dom Sheed a bust when he was dropped in late 2018 - you and I both know what happened next.
 

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kerrazy

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Maybe we trade Venables (premiership player) and our Sydney pick for Kelly?
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liam123

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Sep 29, 2014
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Berry is the one that hurts the most.

He seemed like the perfect choice for us - tall, athletic midfielder with a big tank and leadership qualities. I was plugging him hard pre-draft.

Now he's an important cog in a very good team, averaging more touches than Venables has ever collected in an AFL or WAFL game (IIRC).

Venables has time to turn it around but it's looking like a big whiff of a pick, particularly given that it was a left field choice to begin with.
Link to you posting about wanting berry with our first pick?
 

TOA.

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I wouldn't describe Shuey as a late bloomer. You could see he had the talent from day1 but he did have a lot of injuries in his first few years plus the tragic death of his sister.

This. Shuey was basically ready to go from day 1 but he couldnt get on the field. People on here were desperate to see him get out on the park just passed on training reports.
 

liam123

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Hmm

Lets revisit 2014 - Duggan @ 11 - I think a correct choice with Ellis the only claim after that.
Lamb didn't work out but that was not a talent thing.
Can't see an inside mid (with speed & kicking ability) after #11 although Caleb Daniels deserves a mention.
Note - The selection of Nelson deserves credit.

2015 - traded for Redden (an inside mid with kicking skills)
Can't see an inside mid of note after #28. Maybe Menegola maybe. In fact Oliver & Hopper probably only ones in entire draft.

2016 - venables @13 with Berry @ 17 & SPP @ 18 only other inside mids. I accept English, Hayward, Fisher were there after that but none are inside mids.

2017 - successful draft.

I know you're strong on Berry but if we accept that was a miss - I'm not sure exactly what WC should have done differently in those drafts.
With honest hindsight the club has done far better than any of us could have chosen. Unless someone can provide a link showing who they would have chosen over these drafts I call bull on any melt
 

beatlesmith

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I'm not sure what you thought then, but Berry was labeled a HBF with midfield potential (if I remember correctly). He was a bit similar to Duggan in this regard, and many on here worried he was exactly the type of safe pick the club would take (him or Gallucci). I distinctively recall everyone wanting SPP (and I still do) because he was a pure midfielder.

Anyway, this is all ignoring the fact that you're pretty much labling a third year player who's struggled with injury as a failure. I didn't want Venables either, but you can't say he won't make it already. Many supporters were calling Dom Sheed a bust when he was dropped in late 2018 - you and I both know what happened next.
You may have labeled him that way but you would have been mistaken. The proof is now in the pudding.
I don't think "everyone" wanted SPP. Berry had a fair few supporters on here.
I haven't labelled him a failure. I've acknowledged, two posts ago, that he has time to turn it around FFS. I don't think, based on what we've seen so far, that he is likely to ever develop the ball winning ability or tank required to become a good midfielder. He's more likely to settle as a forward.
 
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You may have labeled him that way but you would have been mistaken. The proof is now in the pudding.
I don't think "everyone" wanted SPP. Berry had a fair few supporters on here.
I haven't labelled him a failure. I've acknowledged, two posts ago, that he has time to turn it around FFS. I don't think, based on what we've seen so far, that he is likely to ever develop the ball winning ability or tank required to become a good midfielder. He's more likely to settle as a forward.

Unfortunately small forwards is the last thing we need right now.
 

TOA.

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Berry has been one of those draftees that excelled in the AFL environment. Nobody would be predicted he'd improve like he has. At draft time he was considered very vanilla HBF who didnt have much scope to improve as others (Venables for example had much higher expected scope for improvement).
 

DanWCE

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I actually wouldn't be at all surprised if Venables heads back to Victoria directly or indirectly as part of a Kelly deal. It'll be interesting to see whether an extended period spent there on the back of his concussion swings him at all.
 
With honest hindsight the club has done far better than any of us could have chosen. Unless someone can provide a link showing who they would have chosen over these drafts I call bull on any melt

Dude you have a very selective memory if you can’t recall the support for Berry, SPP and Worpel.

And I call bull on you not agreeing that both Berry and Worpel would have made our midfield rotations better last weekend against Adelaide.

No one expects the recruiters to nail every pick on every draft but to say posters didn’t and haven’t put up ( pre draft ) some very good alternate picks is simply not true.
 
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