List Mgmt. Trade & F/A - 2017/2018 - Refreshed (cont in part 2)

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MagpieJoel

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Just read the Age :mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

If I was Eddie I would have sacked our list manager not demoted him........have a read :mad:
List manager my arse.

"The quirk of the quirky Ben Brown was that an injury that recruiters feared would harm his career has been the injury that has helped make his career. By prolonging his arrival in the game, that injury has helped him make it in the game.

In his TAC Cup year, Brown did his knee. He was on the radar of all clubs at the time as a promising tall, but he played more ruck than forward as an 18-year-old. But his knee reco cost him a chance at being drafted that year.

Collingwood were interested. They had a family connection to Brown through his uncle James Manson, the key forward and second ruck in the 1990 premiership team.

''Charlie'' was a cult figure at Collingwood for his unorthodox kicking style that was jarring to the purist but extremely effective. He was also an excellent contested mark.

His nephew has similar characteristics where his style made recruiters think he was a bit ragged and messy as a player so orthodox football aesthetics would not recommend him as a player. He is a salutary reminder to look at results not style.

“He was a bit ungainly and awkward. A bit messy,” another recruiter said.

Collingwood recruiters Derek Hine and Jason Taylor met Brown and Manson at Manson’s bayside graphic design office and discussed with the pair the option of Ben coming to Melbourne, where Collingwood could help with his rehab and he could live with his uncle and study. They promised to rookie-list him the next year.

He declined. He thought if they liked him that much they should rookie him straight away. They declined."
Wow, that hurts.
 

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MagpieJoel

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Be easier for you to just tell us who they were. ;):p
http://www.collingwoodfc.com.au/club/history/draft-history

2011:

Rookie 1 17 Lachlan Smith Murray Bushrangers U18 0 2012
Rookie 2 35 Marley Williams Claremont 57 # 2012 - 2015
Rookie 3 53 Trent Stubbs Collingwood 0 2011 - 2012
Rookie 4 70 Daniel Farmer Collingwood 0 2011 - 2012
Rookie 5 81 Caolan Mooney County Down, Ireland 6 # 2012 - 2014
Rookie 6 87 Michael Hartley Sydney University 0 # 2012 - 20

2012:

Rookie1 13 Kyle Martin Frankston 6 2013-2014
Rookie 2 27 Sam Dwyer Port Melbourne 39 2013-2015
Rookie 3 35 Adam Oxley Redland 19 # 2013-2015
Rookie 4 42 Jack Frost Williamstown 44 # 2013-2015
Rookie 5 48 Ben Hudson Brisbane 7 2013-2014
Rookie 6 50 Peter Yagmoor Collingwood 2 2012-2014
Rookie 7 54 Ben Richmond Yolla District High School 0 2013

None of them on our list anymore.

If we include FA, trading and the draft - 2011 & 2012 were massive fails, apart from Grundy and Elliott.
 

TheGreatGrundy

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None of them on our list anymore.

If we include FA, trading and the draft - 2011 & 2012 were massive fails, apart from Grundy and Elliott.
None of them are on our list anymore, but Hartley and Frost have found homes elsewhere, and Hartley at least seems to be playing regular senior football. How did he go against Collingwood last week? I didn't take much notice but assume he was lined up on Cox.
 

MagpieJoel

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None of them are on our list anymore, but Hartley and Frost have found homes elsewhere, and Hartley at least seems to be playing regular senior football. How did he go against Collingwood last week? I didn't take much notice but assume he was lined up on Cox.
Is Frost playing?

Hartley had a second go at it, and is holding on....just.
 

Apex36

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Is Hine the list manager anymore?
No, but he is the head recruiter, and afaik he’s still in charge of choosing who we draft. He would have been the one who decided not to draft Brown even if he had not been the list manager as far as I can tell.

So would you prefer Norths recruiter?
 

adammania9

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I’m starting to think that Taylor Adams could be trade bait. Our midfield has been universally more efficient with Brown and Aish occupying his in and under role, and Sideass occupying his clearance role. A greater sample space is needed to analyse Adams when he’s back in the team but it’s something to think about. We have list deficiencies and he has significant value.


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CFC2010

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No, but he is the head recruiter, and afaik he’s still in charge of choosing who we draft. He would have been the one who decided not to draft Brown even if he had not been the list manager as far as I can tell.

So would you prefer Norths recruiter?
Apex I know you have to win every argument so I will step out.

As to your question I want Hine to concentrate on spotting talent. That is what he is very good at. Murray is a prime example of that.

I don't want him anywhere near our list strategy ever again and negotiations at the trade table.

By the way I am still hysterical he let Ben Brown slip through our fingers.......I won't forgive him for that......ever.

It goes beyond being irked when I read that article this morning mate.
 

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well left

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I’m starting to think that Taylor Adams could be trade bait. Our midfield has been universally more efficient with Brown and Aish occupying his in and under role, and Sideass occupying his clearance role. A greater sample space is needed to analyse Adams when he’s back in the team but it’s something to think about. We have list deficiencies and he has significant value.


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It's an interesting dilemma now with others stepping up. Be surprised if we do trade due to him being in the Leadership Group but he needs to find another string to his bow.... maybe as that lockdown mid or as a defensive forward to go with his time in the middle?
 

TheGreatGrundy

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I am pretty sure I heard on SEN he was dropped for this week........I could be wrong.
No you are obviously not your usual calm and collected self today, CFC. Stats show Hartley got 16 possessions against Collingwood - 12 kicks and 4 HB, which seems quite a lot for him, or at least, for what he used to be.
 

sr36

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Is Hine the list manager anymore?
Out of curiosity. Does anyone know where the line between list manager and head of recruiting is drawn? I would have thought that the list manager deals with valuations and contracts of those already on the list and probably dictates a player type to target in recruitment and that it's the recruiting teams job to choose and pull the trigger on players who fit the type. If my assumption is correct, the Brown decision would still fall to Hine as the recruitment manager, thus it's a black mark against his recruiting and not against his list management.

I'm not having a go at Hine the recruitment manager. When selecting at all stages of the draft and particularly late in the draft, so many unknowns go into whether the unfinished product becomes a gun or a bust that it's really unfair to harp on about an individual selection or non-selection. You've got to look at a much larger sample of selections to judge how well a recruiter is doing his job.

In retrospect the Brown non-selection appears a shocker by all recruitment teams. But obviously the collective recruiters saw an issue that they doubted would be overcome. It's a massive credit to Brown and possibly North Melbourne's coaching staff that he's been able to overcome whatever issue there was. Grundy drifting to pick 18 appears like a shocker by all clubs that chose someone else; however, the very nature of predicting how someone will develop and whether or not they will be able to exploit their assets and overcome their weaknesses will continue to throw up inevitable errors in judgement.
 

Apex36

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Apex I know you have to win every argument so I will step out.

As to your question I want Hine to concentrate on spotting talent. That is what he is very good at. Murray is a prime example of that.
Agreed. But I’d argue that missing Brown comes under talent spotting too, not list management. He is a very good junior talent identifier, but nobody is infallible. His particular failing in that area is talent ID with KPP imo.
I don't want him anywhere near our list strategy ever again and negotiations at the trade table.
No argument here.
By the way I am still hysterical he let Ben Brown slip through our fingers.......I won't forgive him for that......ever.

It goes beyond being irked when I read that article this morning mate.
Probably a bit dramatic. He missed Cripps, Z Merrett in the same draft too iirc. Nobody is infallible, but he still has one of the better records league wide imo.
 

TradeDraft

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http://www.collingwoodfc.com.au/club/history/draft-history

2011:

Rookie 1 17 Lachlan Smith Murray Bushrangers U18 0 2012
Rookie 2 35 Marley Williams Claremont 57 # 2012 - 2015
Rookie 3 53 Trent Stubbs Collingwood 0 2011 - 2012
Rookie 4 70 Daniel Farmer Collingwood 0 2011 - 2012
Rookie 5 81 Caolan Mooney County Down, Ireland 6 # 2012 - 2014
Rookie 6 87 Michael Hartley Sydney University 0 # 2012 - 20

2012:

Rookie1 13 Kyle Martin Frankston 6 2013-2014
Rookie 2 27 Sam Dwyer Port Melbourne 39 2013-2015
Rookie 3 35 Adam Oxley Redland 19 # 2013-2015
Rookie 4 42 Jack Frost Williamstown 44 # 2013-2015
Rookie 5 48 Ben Hudson Brisbane 7 2013-2014
Rookie 6 50 Peter Yagmoor Collingwood 2 2012-2014
Rookie 7 54 Ben Richmond Yolla District High School 0 2013

None of them on our list anymore.

If we include FA, trading and the draft - 2011 & 2012 were massive fails, apart from Grundy and Elliott.
Well you can't Expect Mircales from Rooke Drafts.

Williams is at North and Hartley is at Essendon.

Dwyer and Frost was Handy

Oxley still on the List

Nothing was taken after our 2011 Pick. The one we did not pick was Good was Crisp and we got him anyway

Rampe was only good Pick after our Pick in 2012 Draft.

So we did not miss out on Much

https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_drafts?year=2012&t=R&s=P

https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_drafts?year=2011&t=R&s=P
 

MagpieJoel

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Well you can't Expect Mircales from Rooke Drafts.

Williams is at North and Hartley is at Essendon.

Dwyer and Frost was Handy

Oxley still on the List

Nothing was taken after our 2011 Pick. The one we did not pick was Good was Crisp and we got him anyway

Rampe was only good Pick after our Pick in 2012 Draft.

So we did not miss out on Much

https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_drafts?year=2012&t=R&s=P

https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_drafts?year=2011&t=R&s=P
You missed the point.

We chose all those blokes over Brown.
 
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