List Mgmt. Trade & F/A - 2017/2018 - Refreshed (cont in part 2)

[CFC2010]

He is a grub for completing his contract?
Weird perspective

Did he honour his contract from day one B J?

 

[jackcass]

I would not Bank on Kelly being really good in his Rookie Season at AFL Level

Naughton has done pretty well this season and there are other similar examples. I doubt we'd need to rely too much on him though.

 

[Saintly Viewed]

Yes true, so it will be a Reid deal, one year on minimal money. I cant see us offering Elliott more than one year. I wonder if a club, eg. Suns come along with a 2 yr deal, if he would take that.

I’d say no he would not.

The move itself costs, the relocation and all that.

And even after one year if he even remotely looks like he could be ready the year after you’d think he’d get another year.

 

[Baltimore Jack]

Did he honour his contract from day one B J?

I've don't know, but I got a feeling you are about to enlighten me

 

[Gaben]

How is he the grub?

If we as a club were stupid enough to offer him the contract (both in terms of length and dollars), he can't be blamed for signing it - we have to cop it.

Because a non-grub would retire, hence grub status.

 

[CFC2010]

I've don't know, but I got a feeling you are about to enlighten me

I have posted about it in the past.........no need to derail the thread or be a broken record.

Gaben isn't as wrong as you think.

 

[Apex36]

Naughton has done pretty well this season and there are other similar examples. I doubt we'd need to rely too much on him though.

Probably not the best comparison given that Naughton was a top 10 pick and considered ready made for AFL...

 

[Baltimore Jack]

I have posted about it in the past.........no need to derail the thread or be a broken record.

Gaben isn't as wrong as you think.

You may well be correct, just so that I can get on the same page as you clearly are, can you post me the relevant pages from his contract...not all of his contract, just the ones you are referring to.....thanks in anticipation

 

[Gaben]

He is a grub for completing his contract?
Weird perspective

It'll be about the only portion of his contract the fat bugger actually manages to fulfil.

How nice is it to see blokes like Riewoldt openly stating their willingness to take cut backs for the betterment of their team while we are stuck with Daniel Wells squeezing every last free feed out of the club buffet as his career of underachievement and disappointment meekly rolls to an end. What a legacy.

 

[CFC2010]

Probably not the best comparison given that Naughton was a top 10 pick and considered ready made for AFL...

Pull your head in Apex36 Kelly is a more coordinated Scarlett remember!

 

[CFC2010]

You may well be correct, just so that I can get on the same page as you clearly are, can you post me the relevant pages from his contract...not all of his contract, just the ones you are referring to.....thanks in anticipation

 

[Baltimore Jack]

It'll be about the only portion of his contract the fat bugger actually manages to fulfil.

Do you think Beams was a grub for not completing his contract?

 

[Gaben]

Do you think Beams was a grub for not completing his contract?

No? His father had cancer and he served us more than adequately in his time.

Daniel Wells didn't even have the respect to show up to his first preseason in semi-acceptable condition. Rorted the club from day dot.

Beams is a Collingwood hero, Wells is a Collingwood zero.

 

[Baltimore Jack]

No? His father had cancer and he served us more than adequately in his time.

Daniel Wells didn't even have the respect to show up to his first preseason in semi-acceptable condition. Rorted the club from day dot.

Beams is a Collingwood hero, Wells is a Collingwood zero.

Ok, at least we are progressing

Now that you have admitted that there are perfectly valid reasons for a player not completing his contract.....ok, you take it from here

 

[Gaben]

Ok, at least we are progressing

Now that you have admitted that there are perfectly valid reasons for a player not completing his contract.....ok, you take it from here

Er, I never implied any surprise at the fact he wants to complete his contract, it's exactly the thing I thought a bloke like Wells would do. I just said that, given the circumstances, he was a selfish grub for doing so.

You catching up now?

 

[Baltimore Jack]

Er, I never implied any surprise at the fact he wants to complete his contract, it's exactly the thing I thought a bloke like Wells would do. I just said that, given the circumstances, he was a selfish grub for doing so.

You catching up now?

I can never catch up with duplicity, its always kept me guessing

 

[ThePhantom777]

He is a grub for completing his contract?
Weird perspective

I think what annoys people is that we brought him in as an experienced, cream on top player to play 16 games per year plus finals. He turned up to his first pre-season in bad physical shape. He has a career ending foot injury (at his age) and wants to "complete his contract"? Of course he does, $$ for nothing. How many games do you think he's playing next season? He's done.

 

[jackcass]

Probably not the best comparison given that Naughton was a top 10 pick and considered ready made for AFL...

Was that by the same people who thought Stephenson would need at least a year in the VFL before he'd likely be ready for a senior game?

My point was that there are always players who defy expectations. Who is to say Kelly can't/won't be one of those.

 

[jackcass]

I think what annoys people is that we brought him in as an experienced, cream on top player to play 16 games per year plus finals. He turned up to his first pre-season in bad physical shape. He has a career ending foot injury (at his age) and wants to "complete his contract"? Of course he does, $$ for nothing. How many games do you think he's playing next season? He's done.

Unless I'm mistaken he gets paid his final year either way and we still take the salary cap hit in 2019.

 

[Chrispiesssss]

Unless I'm mistaken he gets paid his final year either way and we still take the salary cap hit in 2019.

Are you sure? Rioli’s retirement was meant to give Hawthorn salary space.

 

[Two Eyes]

I think the only way out with Wells’ contract is if we can pay him out next years contract out of this years cap.

Assuming we don’t have room in the cap this year then it comes out of next year.

 

[sideswipe]

It'll be about the only portion of his contract the fat bugger actually manages to fulfil.

Unless I'm mistaken he gets paid his final year either way and we still take the salary cap hit in 2019.

Are you sure? Rioli’s retirement was meant to give Hawthorn salary space.

This has been done to death, but they are two different situations, but with one key point. Leaving aside first contracts for restricted free agents, the only thing that counts towards Total Player Payments is what is actually paid to a player in any particular football year. TPP is not concerned with contracts, save for RFAs (think Buddy, Tyrone Vickery).

Rioli had a contract for a few (maybe 2?) more years beyond 2018. Club and player would have come to an arrangement where he was paid an amount (probably something like just this year's amount or less) and agreed to forego the remainder of his contract. Only what he is paid would hit the salary cap, not what was initially contracted. Despite what some may think, once a player is contracted, the money isn't absolutely guaranteed. Players still have to meet standards around training, off-field commitments, etc. Given Rioli was retiring, he was effectively terminating his contract. So no need for future year dollars to be paid. The space that Hawthorn will get is the future commitment to Rioli which has now been waived. Am sure that this was all done on a very friendly basis given Cyril's service to the club.

Wells is a different situation. I am not suggesting this is the case, but if it was...if the Club and player came to settle on a termination payment which would free Wells from any future club duties, they could potentially pay that lesser amount (ie. lesser than his 2019 contractual payment) and that is the amount that would go to TPP. Now, if there was an advantage to the club, they could pay that this football year for it to count to this year's TPP cap, thus freeing up space in next year's cap.

I don't think any of that will happen and I hope Wells plays well next year.

Posters seizing on his contract and then questioning his character from behind a keyboard are as weak as water.

 

[Apex36]

Was that by the same people who thought Stephenson would need at least a year in the VFL before he'd likely be ready for a senior game?

No

 

[Dead Eye Didak]

See Riewoldt just re-signed for another 2 years at the Tigers. The day after we meet with Lynch!!

 

[TradeDraft]