List Mgmt. Trade & F/A - 2017/2018 - Refreshed (cont in part 2)

[WalterBlaknWhte]

I don’t know enough about him to comment. Nor do I know enough about draft points and trading picks to know what that is about. All I can do is hope, and hope dies last.

Mere hope renders us the flotsam of history comrade.

 

[Jasper84]

Hidden? Mate he wasn’t regarded as good enough to play TAC in his draft year. He wasn’t hidden.

In his draft years was he playing as a small forward or running defender? Makes sense that he was overlooked as an average forward before Sydney reinvented him.

 

[jmac70]

Even if Murray turns out to be the next Judd it’s still a shitty trade getting rid of that 2nd round draft pick. I agree. Regardless of how s**t or great Murray is we didn’t have to pay that high price to get him. It’s rediculous.

I'm not quite following your logic here TG. Carlton gave up pick 3, 20 and Kennedy for Judd. We managed to get him for just a downgrade of a second round pick to a third. Surely by comparison we have done quite well?

 

[TW Sherrin]

Brett Anderson is a Hine sycophant.

so he reckons a 20yo would be a top 15 pick against 18yo's. big deal.

no chance Richards gets to the pies now.

 

[TW Sherrin]

It's got me flummoxed why so many on this board know with certainty what Sydney's base price was. It's possible that we were out-negotiated, but it's also possible that we got him for the cheapest price that Sydney were willing to accept. Either way, whether or not it was a good trade depends upon whether or not Murray becomes a decent senior player. If you buy a house and it appreciates in value enormously, you don't care that the original price was a few thousand more than the original owner was willing to sell for.

mate, history shows Hine is an amateur negotiator. he even buys his own lube.

 

[jmac70]

Brett Anderson is a Hine sycophant.

so he reckons a 20yo would be a top 15 pick against 18yo's. big deal.

no chance Richards gets to the pies now.

What has Richards got to with the Murray trade?

 

[loki04]

Agreed you may be right and this kid is much better than the fairly superficial evidence we have to assess him suggests. The highlights say there are things to work with. It still seems we should have been able to pay less. Also on the surface when I try to delve into in NEAFL season it doesn't look like a player on the verge of senior selection. I know there are limitations on what you can conclude from this.

I have mention his place in the MVP (14th of Swan players) but thought I would go beck through the NEAFL match reports. Looked to the matches the Swans reserves played and the 2 finals. He was named in the best 6 players 4 times in the 18 matches he played. Not conclusive but interesting.

His 22 posies per game and 6 score involvements as mentioned in the HUN have to be considered in the light that the Swans only lost to the Bears in the NEAFL, including the GF. 16w2l for the H&A. %233 and 7 wins by 100points or more sometimes much more. This was a very uneven comp and the Swans stat numbers as a team were very high. It discounts a bit the numbers the players put up.

My point here is looking at the figures of a kid who has been in the system for 2 years and hasn't starred is that he will likely need further development and is unlikely to be ready for senior footy come the start of 2018. Swans as they were offering him another rookie spot didn't see him as senior ready for 2018.

We overpaid for him on any reasonable assessment so that shouldn't make us label him AFL ready. If he is good enough over time he will get his go but I would suggest better not to expect him to do too much in 2018.

There are a heap of NEAFL games on youtube where one can watch Murray in full games.

He certainly has attributes that we need but that is not what people are arguing about rather said cost and the the rollover of hine.

 

[sr36]

mate, history shows Hine is an amateur negotiator. he even buys his own lube.

History doesn't doesn't show that at all. Up until the last year 2 years, we all viewed his trades as having been top notch. Above the odds for Wellingham and Dawes. A good move to trade 11 up to six a few years ago. Fair value for Beams. Fair value for Shaw. A couple that this board whinged about were: Seedsman and Kennedy effectively for Howe. Harry for Varcoe. Future second for WHE. But those trades are all looking like wins to me. Some think he paid overs for Treloar, but it looks like fair value to me. It definitely looks like he paid overs for Aish - but that appears to have been a talent identification issue rather than a trading issue.

As far as I'm concerned, history will judge the Aish trade poorly and the Witts trade poorly. But that's it. It'll judge most of his other trades as being neutral or gains. I'm not including Marley because that was more of a delisting for being a twat.

 

[left at home]

Brett Anderson is a Hine sycophant.

so he reckons a 20yo would be a top 15 pick against 18yo's. big deal.

no chance Richards gets to the pies now.

There never was, in this draft, without a second to begin with.

 

[TradeDraft]

Brett Anderson is a Hine sycophant.

so he reckons a 20yo would be a top 15 pick against 18yo's. big deal.

no chance Richards gets to the pies now.

He is Actually pretty good with that sort of Stuff

 

[jmac70]

There never was in this draft without a second to begin with.

Seems some of the anti Hine brigade are having some factual problems.

 

[TW Sherrin]

History doesn't doesn't show that at all. Up until the last year 2 years, we all viewed his trades as having been top notch. Above the odds for Wellingham and Dawes. A good move to trade 11 up to six a few years ago. Fair value for Beams. Fair value for Shaw. A couple that this board whinged about were: Seedsman and Kennedy effectively for Howe. Harry for Varcoe. Future second for WHE. But those trades are all looking like wins to me. Some think he paid overs for Treloar, but it looks like fair value to me. It definitely looks like he paid overs for Aish - but that appears to have been a talent identification issue rather than a trading issue.

As far as I'm concerned, history will judge the Aish trade poorly and the Witts trade poorly. But that's it. It'll judge most of his other trades as being neutral or gains. I'm not including Marley because that was more of a delisting for being a twat.

did he trade shaw, wellingham and dawes or was that before he became list manager?

I don't have an issue with Williams. he was a dckhead and the whole league knew it. witts and mayne we got bent over. why did Oxley get 3 years? why is blair still contracted? aish..yep. and murray.

imo he has made some poor decisions. one every few years is liveable. we make them every year.

 

[left at home]

Seems some of the anti Hine brigade are having some factual problems.

I am more neutral on it, rather see how the young man plays in the next year or two to have a proper perspective on it.
there has been some interesting so called facts thrown around, that really cannot be certain of yet. I’m of the thought that he is a need, and if by the end of this season he is best 22 and beyond then his value is right.
As for Hine he is a good finder of talent, who can get it wrong from time to time. The deal l thought was overs, but it’s not anything l am going to get upset about. If he plays well, we break even,if great we are well ahead.

 

[Quicky]

did he trade shaw, wellingham and dawes or was that before he became list manager?

I don't have an issue with Williams. he was a dckhead and the whole league knew it. witts and mayne we got bent over. why did Oxley get 3 years? why is blair still contracted? aish..yep. and murray.

imo he has made some poor decisions. one every few years is liveable. we make them every year.

I'd love to know this. When did Hine become list manager?

 

[sr36]

did he trade shaw, wellingham and dawes or was that before he became list manager?

I don't have an issue with Williams. he was a dckhead and the whole league knew it. witts and mayne we got bent over. why did Oxley get 3 years? why is blair still contracted? aish..yep. and murray.

imo he has made some poor decisions. one every few years is liveable. we make them every year.

Yep if you broaden the discussion from trade negotiations to anything list related, you can find a few more errors.

I personally think that Hine has done a good job and is copping the blame for issues with coaching, player development and fitness staff. He's copping a lot of flak for our list 'imbalance.' - An imbalance that we've shared with the last two Premiers.

 

[MagpieBat]

I'd love to know this. When did Hine become list manager?

Off-season of 2013.

 

[Frank Gallagher]

You're missing a pretty big positive accolade. He was named in the NEAFL team of the year. He must have played some pretty good footy. Rather than looking at his whole year stats, it may be worth only looking at his stats after his move to defence. If its true that rookies won't need to be elevated next year, you can't read anything at all into the Swans initially only offering him a rookie spot.

So he's top 22 in the NEAFL?

 

[jmac70]

So he's top 22 in the NEAFL?

He did pretty well in the Ovens and Murray before that.

 

[Obese Arachnid]

A top 15 pick for a 20yo NEAFL player?

BA is taking the piss.

Perhaps the Pies have called in a few favours with a couple of journos.

 

[Quicky]

Off-season of 2013.

Thanks Bat. Who was doing it prior to that?

 

[TW Sherrin]

Yep if you broaden the discussion from trade negotiations to anything list related, you can find a few more errors.

I personally think that Hine has done a good job and is copping the blame for issues with coaching, player development and fitness staff. He's copping a lot of flak for our list 'imbalance.' - An imbalance that we've shared with the last two Premiers.

I've got no issue with him looking after talent id. He's proven he's good at it.

I'd guess he doesnt get the final say on our drafting strategy and is part of a committee. Yeh we could have drafted another tall bur they clearly rate Cox. The list imbalance is due to the cloggers not a specific type (mid or tall etc).

 

[MagpieBat]

Thanks Bat. Who was doing it prior to that?

As I recall, the trades (specifically the trades of Wellingham and Dawes the year prior) were overseen by Geoff Walsh.

After Walsh left late in the 2013 season, the club reshuffled the cards, with Hine promoted to "General Manager of List Management" and his duties as head of draft recruitment absorbed into that portfolio (which now included trades), with Dom Milesi coming in to support Hine and Matt Rendell as a Recruiting Assistant.

 

[jmac70]

As I recall, the trades (specifically the trades of Wellingham and Dawes the year prior) were overseen by Geoff Walsh.

After Walsh left late in the 2013 season, the club reshuffled the cards, with Hine promoted to "General Manager of List Management" and his duties as head of draft recruitment absorbed into that portfolio (which included trades), with Dom Milesi coming in to support Hine and Matt Rendell as a Recruiting Assistant.

I would imagine that Walsh also rubber stamped the Murray trade. Maybe we should sack him too.

 

[si tacuisses]

I would imagine that Walsh also rubber stamped the Murray trade. Maybe we should sack him too.

Sack everyone. Only way to be sure.

 

[jmac70]

Sack everyone. Only way to be sure.

Scorched earth policy, I like it!