List Mgmt. Trade & F.A. 2017 (if a scenario sounds wrong - read on before posting)

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Soups

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6 and 36 for Schache and 18 would be possible imo because 18 is likely to be eaten by a bid on Ballenden and 36 gives them the points for it. It’s not a deal I’m hugely enamoured with though.
Yeah It’s probably the best deal we could put to them and one that seems to be put forward the most. I’m like you I’m a bit meh on the trade. Who knows, we might not even be interested.
 

Soups

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Just to clear something up this is purely your opinion isn't it ? you seem to write as if you know exactly whats going to happen , which you do not.

You should of conducted the club review
Yep totally my opinion, I don’t claim to know what’s going to happen, I’m just trying to be realistic.

You should go for Hine’s job. If you could pull off those trades you’d be the best in the business.
 

Thefly38

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Yep totally my opinion, I don’t claim to know what’s going to happen, I’m just trying to be realistic.

You should go for Hine’s job. If you could pull off those trades you’d be the best in the business.
Let me know if they advertise it dont know much about talent identification but do work in negotiating
 
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Possibly....or maybe he is just an average player. There are a number of players picked at 2 that did not do much or if the draft was done retrospectively would not have been picked in the top 20. Here are some Pick 2's: Steven Sims, James Cook, Nathan Chapman, Matthew Croft, Andrew Walker, Scott Gumbleton, Jack Trengove, Jono O'Rourke
But if you look at when clubs really started to put the time and resources into drafting (about 2000 onwards) you only have:
Walker, who was still a decent player,

Trengove and Gumbleton, cruelled by post draft injuries

Bennell who has had injuries and personal issues but all the talent in the world.

O'Rourke, no good.

Other than these examples, pick 2 players have been top notch: Kosi, Ball, Wells, Roughy, Thomas, Cotchin, Nic Nat, Coniglio, Kelly, Petracca, Taranto.
 
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I have a suggestion to make life a bit easier and perhaps dave some confusion going forward.
How about either preface your post with I have heard "ABC" club want pick "123" for "X" player or end it with IMO
Thoughts?
I like it. Can I also suggest posts be tagged with "NFB" standing for No Factual Basis.
 

3rdMan

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Based on draft position, age and playing position, Schache would be a great get for us. Exactly what we need, a young KPP with at least a couple of years in the system. Lever would be better as the more certain A grade player.

Assessing him myself is difficult because he is still only young and has not yet made it as an AFL player. This is far from unusual for a key position player and not something I hold against him. And people are talking as if he's been a complete dud, whereas his numbers are actually pretty good for a young KPF. He's a superstar compared to Ben Reid's early career, Ben Reid: two seasons, 6 games, 2 goals; Scache: two seasons, 27 games, 25 goals. Nothing wrong with those numbers.

If the club compare him to those in the draft and decide it's better to deal than draft, I'd be all for it. The potential KPF draftees look pretty ordinary. I'd much prefer trading our pick than downgrading it - almost always a dumb move, giving up the chance of securing potential A grade or elite talent because of need. I simply don't believe the talent available at 6 will be equal to that available at 12+ it's never the case and downgrading based on need is incredibly dumb. When you have a top 10 pick, bring in the best talent, you don't get many shots at it. Needs can be balanced later.
 

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Thefly38

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Based on draft position, age and playing position, Schache would be a great get for us. Exactly what we need, a young KPP with at least a couple of years in the system. Lever would be better as the more certain A grade player.

Assessing him myself is difficult because he is still only young and has not yet made it as an AFL player. This is far from unusual for a key position player and not something I hold against him. And people are talking as if he's been a complete dud, whereas his numbers are actually pretty good for a young KPF. He's a superstar compared to Ben Reid's early career, Ben Reid: two seasons, 6 games, 2 goals; Scache: two seasons, 27 games, 25 goals. Nothing wrong with those numbers.

If the club compare him to those in the draft and decide it's better to deal than draft, I'd be all for it. The potential KPF draftees look pretty ordinary. I'd much prefer trading our pick than downgrading it - almost always a dumb move, giving up the chance of securing potential A grade or elite talent because of need. I simply don't believe the talent available at 6 will be equal to that available at 12+ it's never the case and downgrading based on need is incredibly dumb. When you have a top 10 pick, bring in the best talent, you don't get many shots at it. Needs can be balanced later.
Unless downgrading is included with getting that player eg. Shache
 

OniAu

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Any thought on Saad from GC ? ideally what we need off the HBF, young quick good disposal.


Our key 3 gets should be

1. KPF
2. KPD
3. HBF with pace/disposal

Whether that comes from trades or the draft , we need to address those 3 bleatingly obvious deficiencies on our list
 

Spatfers

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Any thought on Saad from GC ? ideally what we need off the HBF, young quick good disposal.


Our key 3 gets should be

1. KPF
2. KPD
3. HBF with pace/disposal

Whether that comes from trades or the draft , we need to address those 3 bleatingly obvious deficiencies on our list
I like the idea of Saad, but it would be a case of what we'd have to give to get. Little bit of concern about his injury profile too (hammys seem problematic?)
 

3rdMan

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Unless downgrading is included with getting that player eg. Shache
The perfect scenario. I think we'd need to package a player for this though. Schache is likely worth pick 6 on his own, and you'd think that's how the Lions would see it. That's already factoring in a loss of stock, which I'm not sure is even there.

With the Lions desperate for more leadership, I think a deal of pick 6 and Greenwood for Schache and 18 or similar could work (maybe we'd have to offer a little more). We could then either address our KPD needs or maybe even take Richards as a quick defender.

I really hope the Schache rumours are true, or that we are targeting another KPP via trade. Drafting a key position player is just so risky and time consuming, even if a success it won't move us forward for at least 3 years. Schache potentially makes us better right now, or for sure going into 2019. We would have two highly rated young tall forwards about to enter their best years at a similar time.
 
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jackcass

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With regard to Oxley if he was to be delisted then picked up in the rookie draft it's likely the club and himself will have come to some arrangement in amending his contract status. We won't be able to change things unilaterally. One option Oxley will have if the club said they were planning to delist him is to demand his contract be paid out.

Likely senario would seem to be club wants to free up a spot on the main list but is still happy to keep Oxley on in some capacity i.e. rookie. They may have gone to him and said you have the option to be paid out but we are willing to guarantee we will re rookie you, perhaps on identical money, if you agree to give up the current contract. My guess is whether we delist and payout or come to an agreement with Oxley to re rookie his current contract stays on our TPP but the result is we free up a spot on the main list.

That's my best guess without being certain.

Short story is he may prefer other arrangements than just a straight pay out and delisting so he can stay on the list. Any renegotiation of his contract status involved can be done if both parties agree but there still may be TPP conditions than will remain in place exclusive of the new conditions agreed on.
Injuries this season considered I think Ox has had enough time. Would rather we just delist and pay out.
 

Apex36

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Sorry to intrude but what do you think Schache is worth on his own? I been reading the Schache thread on the Brisbane board to get an idea of what he is worth but all I see is them rubbishing Treloar and Collingwood.
Brisbane fans range from wanting two first rounders for him, to a mid to late first + steak knives. The main justification being he’s contracted and had a reasonable first year. Some using Boyd as a benchmark, which is ludicrous.

For mine, I’d say a pick in the mid teens, which the Tigers seemed keen to do, but obviously wasn’t appealing to Brisbane at all since they’ve now ‘lost interest’ (ie Brisbane said GAGF).

For us giving up pick 6 is just too much. For that kind of pick you want a player you know will be a sure thing in a trade, and at the moment there’s too many question marks on young Josh to say he’ll definitely make it.

From a Collingwood perspective ideally we’d only give up 6 if we were getting 12 back, but in reality Brisbane wouldn’t want any part in that.
 

didaksrightfoot

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If you are comparing him to Aish you have no clue. If Schache leaves it will be to come home to family and friends Aish just chased opportunity and money at Collingwood. There is a lot going on behind the scenes for Josh Schache but I am confident in Melbourne he can make it
I am only comparing because of any assumption that Schaches 2nd year blues are due primarily to the Lions and their culture/structures.

We were all saying the same thing about Aish 2 years ago. A guy who had a gun 1st year then seriously fell off the pace in his 2nd, had some reported issues with the club about wanting to leave, and spent time sent back to the NEAFL.
A lot of us thought that we would get an Aish who would immediately get back to his 1st year trajectory... when really what we've seen since is more reflective of his 2nd year.

I am purely saying that you have to be vary wary in thinking that whatever has stalled Schaches development this year can be jusy blamed on Brissy and will go away the moment he gets to the Pies.

Because the player we saw in 2017 is not worth giving up Pick 6 for.
 
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