List Mgmt. Trade & F.A. 2017 (if a scenario sounds wrong - read on before posting)

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sr36

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Yes, Egan's foot was fcuked, hence he had to be replaced. I was just highlighting the talls that were already in the Cats defence when Taylor started. And as didaksrightfoot highlighted, I didn't even include the Milburn and Mackie types who played the medium - tall roles. Lonergan, Harley and Scarlett isn't a bad trio to squeeze into.
The Cats wanted to maintain their structure, which meant a genuine kpd to replace Egan. Lonergan was very ordinary at the time and didn't offer much competition for a spot. Luckily for the Cats, Taylor was pretty good from Day 1 and quickly became pretty great.
 

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loki04

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There seems to be a lot of optimism around the type of player we will get with pick 6.

For reference I've listed the last 17 players picked at 6.

West Coast Ashley Sampi
North Melbourne Dylan Smith
Port Adelaide Steven Salopek
Essendon Kepler Bradley
Western Bulldogs Tom Williams
Hawthorn Beau Dowler
Hawthorn Mitchell Thorp
Essendon David Myers
Carlton Christopher Yarran
Sydney Gary Rohan
Richmond Reece Conca
Port Adelaide Chad Wingard
Western Bulldogs Jackson Macrae
Collingwood Matthew Scharenberg
GWS Caleb Marchbank
Essendon Aaron Francis
Carlton Sam Petrevski-Seton
Can you list Hines picks that were still on the board at pick 6 in all those drafts?

Because he may have picked a different players at 6 then those clubs (outside Schaz obvs).
 

sr36

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They made a big mistake upgrading him from the rookie list, and doing so that early into the preseason. If he were on the rookie list still he'd be safe.
Wasn't he just a temporary upgrade, who goes back to the rookie list now that the season is over. I thought you could only permanently upgrade through your final draft selection.

Just looked it up - we did upgrade him through the draft.
 

dansa

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I never really get this argument. Outside of the first 5 picks at 6 you have the pick of the draft. Put up something like picks 6-30 of the last 10 years and you'll get a better idea of what's possible if our recruiters identify the right talent.
Of course. But no club ever picks the eyes of the draft.

I'm really only putting it up as reference.
But it does indicate that by pick 6 picking up an elite player is far from certain.
 

Sidebysidey

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I never really get this argument. Outside of the first 5 picks at 6 you have the pick of the draft. Put up something like picks 6-30 of the last 10 years and you'll get a better idea of what's possible if our recruiters identify the right talent.
It probably comes from giving up Pavlich for Danny Roach at 6.
 

Apex36

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Of course. But no club ever picks the eyes of the draft.

I'm really only putting it up as reference.
But it does indicate that by pick 6 picking up an elite player is far from certain.
Picking up an elite player is far from certain even with pick 1. It has nothing to do with the pick number and everything to do with the recruiter and their talent identification.
 

loki04

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Of course. But no club ever picks the eyes of the draft.

I'm really only putting it up as reference.
But it does indicate that by pick 6 picking up an elite player is far from certain.
It is far from certain but Lever is not so much of an upgrade to our back 6 that taking him over 2 first rounders is worth the trade off.

What role does he play in our team?

What match ups does he take through the year? Ie does he get the job on Danniher, Franklin, Patton, Lynch, Walker, Hipwood, Hawkins or Hogan?

Or does he get the 2iC forwards like Darling, Cameron, Hooker, Reiwoldt, Roughead, Wright etc..

Does he maintain his role which we currently have the superior Howe playing?

If so wouldnt having the status quo but adding pick 6 (hopefully filling a list need) be a greater list improvement then at best moving sideways with Lever?
 

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sr36

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Of course. But no club ever picks the eyes of the draft.

I'm really only putting it up as reference.
But it does indicate that by pick 6 picking up an elite player is far from certain.
Yep it highlights how much we overrate the value of draft picks. If we can turn pick 6 into a good young player - be it through trade or draft, we should be delighted.
 

neilk

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If we trade pick 6 for 12 + 18 off Brisbane, then those 2 picks probably get the job done. So no need to also throw in Scharenberg.

So in essence it would be pick 6 on it's own. Which would be fine in my opinion, and well worth it.

Again, the problem for me is the price tag. I just think his price has been dramatically inflated as there is no one else on the market. If May didn't re-sign, I reckon Lever would be more around the 700K mark
So why can’t we give the Crows pick 6 and they can trade it to Brisbane themselves? Pick 6 on its own is not enough but if it’s traded for 12&18 it suddenly becomes enough?? Might just be me but it doesn’t seem to make sense.
 

TheSierBear

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soft spot for Carlton out of pity
With toxic negotiations developing between Melbourne and Adelaide we are perfectly placed to
a) Get Lever for unders.
b.) Most likely scenario do an O'Meara deal with Melbourne so we improve our overall draft position.
c.) Possibly get Lever in the draft at pick 6.

Either way, I think we are approaching this very well.
I really hope they can play this one smart.
 

dansa

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Picking up an elite player is far from certain even with pick 1. It has nothing to do with the pick number and everything to do with the recruiter and their talent identification.
And how confident are you that our recruiting team will get a player around the 6th best in this draft. I'm no more confident in our recruiters over most others at opposition clubs right now.

I'm just pointing out that pick 6 is no certainty of a great player.

Despite this I'm still inclined to use the pick rather than trading it, but I am open minded.
 
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I'm coming from a perspective where I don't rate Shaz particularly highly and would use him to help get Lever. I think Lever, Howe, Langdon and Crisp would give us the basis of an excellent unit for the foreseeable future, would just need to add a lockdown tall, which often come pretty cheaply and a pacy solid back pocket.
Yeah Lever makes sense if we're moving out someone like Scharenberg, Langdon or Reid. All three are solid AFL players and if paying top dollar for Lever means one of those three are playing seconds in 2018 then it's a pretty bad result imo.

The problem with trading Shaz is that I think we're losing a good player for a rock bottom price, and with Lever we're buying a very good player for a premium price. It doesn't seem like good business to me and would prefer we focussed on fixing more immediate positional problems of which there are several including the two you mentioned.
 

rdangelo

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Yep it highlights how much we overrate the value of draft picks. If we can turn pick 6 into a good young player - be it through trade or draft, we should be delighted.
Do you a take a ready made proven gun with 10 years locked in your backline or risk pick 6 on a potential dud or a serviceable player who'll take 2-3 years to mature. Chances of being a star are small.

I know which way I'd go.
 

rdangelo

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The Pies also need to depart with a big name to advance themselves ie. Sidebottom. If Lever choose melbourne, go to GC with 6 and Sidebottom for Lynch. More than they'll get for him next year.

Coaching staff need to be bold. Current list won't propel up the ladder on its own.
 
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Saintly Viewed

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Its all opinions. We rate players differently. I believe Lever will grow into a fantastic KPD, I would expect him to be AFL best level. I know you don't see that and hold a very high opinion of Shaz's upper level where I see him more likely to be more a foot soldier type.

As to the two 6's that's past history. Put Shaz on the market for a swap now and I think a pick in the 20's is likely best case senario. So in swap terms it would be pick 6 and say 25 as an approximation which is a good price.
I'm interested in your view of Lever as a key position player, defender I presume.
Are you suggesting Lever becomes our long term Centre Half Back?
And best in league for position?
That's interesting and if so makes his trading much more appetising.
I'm not sure I see it, but interested in your judgment here.

In an aside, of all posters you're the last person I'd have going for "past history" :eek:

Naughty :p
 

Old Spice

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And how confident are you that our recruiting team will get a player around the 6th best in this draft. I'm no more confident in our recruiters over most others at opposition clubs right now.

I'm just pointing out that pick 6 is no certainty of a great player.

Despite this I'm still inclined to use the pick rather than trading it, but I am open minded.
Yeah. I'm not keen on giving up the first round this year and next for lever but if we could get him at a first and late first this year I'd have a good hard think
 

dansa

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It is far from certain but Lever is not so much of an upgrade to our back 6 that taking him over 2 first rounders is worth the trade off.

What role does he play in our team?

What match ups does he take through the year? Ie does he get the job on Danniher, Franklin, Patton, Lynch, Walker, Hipwood, Hawkins or Hogan?

Or does he get the 2iC forwards like Darling, Cameron, Hooker, Reiwoldt, Roughead, Wright etc..

Does he maintain his role which we currently have the superior Howe playing?

If so wouldnt having the status quo but adding pick 6 (hopefully filling a list need) be a greater list improvement then at best moving sideways with Lever?
Not sure why you're asking me to respond. I've never posted about Lever. I have never suggested we shouldn't take 6 to the draft.
 
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