List Mgmt. Trade & F.A. 2017 (if a scenario sounds wrong - read on before posting)

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3rdMan

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I don't think anyone's been calling for a one KPF forward line, just mentioning that it is a valid option. There's no disputing that.

Personally, I want a support forward for Moore. Whether that's a young developing tall (preferably not through the draft if it can be avoided), or a slightly older battering ram type. If we can't yet find one or whoever we get is not ready then we stick with Cox/Reid/Mayne for 2018. Moore projects to be very good and will likely cost us $1M or near to at some point. I don't want to be paying another key forward over $1M, they are overpriced in the market.

Looking at who might be available at pick 6, I don't think I want a tall. We are much more likely to get a potential A grader if we take best available and I don't think that's going to be a KPP. You don't get cute with top 10 picks, you make the most of the chance to draft a potentially elite talent. Either that or we trade it for a more certain KPP hit as this year's draft looks a real risk of dudding it up if we go tall at 6.
 

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3rdMan

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Lynch is a restricted free agent in 2019 right? So he only leaves if GCFC don't play hard ball and match. I know that rarely, if ever, happens but that could be the first time.
It would surely be a trade if it happened, the Suns aren't just going to let him walk. At that point the cost becomes too much $1.2M in salary, plus whatever we need to trade out, potentially two first rounders again? It was worth it for Treloar, but it would be a mistake to go there again for Lynch, we'd be really diluting our list.
 

jatsad

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Crameri is an interesting one. I quite like him as a player. You really have to forget his last two years though. He got the Bomber drug ban then came back and was injured for most of this year. If he can get his body right he can be a dangerous forward. Before his ban he kicked 30 plus goals 5 years in a row (not always full years either).

He is not going to come at any huge cost and that is the key, we can't afford to be throwing money and picks at Jack Watts who is unproven when compared to someone like Crameri - its basic moneyball principles.
NO. Too old, done nothing in the past 2 years. I know there was suspension and injury but at 30, that's difficult to come back from.
Enough with these old, over the hill players.
Trade young or draft.
 

Seedsfan

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I'm a bit confused about the criticism that seems to be about of us not hitting the draft. We did exactly that when we traded out some of Mick's boys.

We then had a defection which needed a replacement ready made elite player (bringing in Treloar for Beams). This is the only deal that has cost us a first round selection.

Some other moves we made were to preserve the age profile of an already young list (Varcoe for Harry, White for Dawes). We lost a lot of experience and needed to replenish with some unless we wanted to completely fall off a cliff, we were bottom 3-4 in terms of age profile for a couple of years. Some would argue we should have done that and tanked like a Carlton. I don't think so. We had a core group that when fit and ready could make the 8. Unfortunately we had a couple of years of serious injury. And then the major disaster which set our mini rebuild back a few years: the Scharenberg and Freeman injuries.

I see very few failed deals here (maybe Aish the only recent one?). I won't talk free agents for now as I think they're in a different category, but that to me is an extraordinarily good strike rate.

I think it's unfair to criticise the club simply for bringing players in from other teams, not actually critiquing the deals themselves. The game has changed with the explosion of player movement and no one only goes via the draft anymore. Not only because they are chasing other team's players but because their own are constantly on the move as well. If you're not looking to improve your team at the trade table then you're probably being left behind. There are different phases to a build, but it's no longer as simple as draft, draft, draft, top up when ready to compete.
Beams left as he couldn't stand Buckley, we did not need a ready made replacement. Giving up pick 7 and 7 for Treloar was a mistake and overs
 

magpies42

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Beams left as he couldn't stand Buckley, we did not need a ready made replacement. Giving up pick 7 and 7 for Treloar was a mistake and overs
Beams left because he was a whinging little brat. You get paid to do your job, end of story. Buckley has proven to be quite the players coach. Beams is a b1tch. He ha sheen injured most of the time and we got De Goey and crisp. Degoey took massive steps forward this year

We got a second rounder in return I believe for Treloar. He wins the ball when we need him, has speed, is hard, kicks goals and can actually kick when he isn’t spent. Good trade.
 

westozpie

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Beams left because he was a whinging little brat. You get paid to do your job, end of story. Buckley has proven to be quite the players coach. Beams is a b1tch. He ha sheen injured most of the time and we got De Goey and crisp. Degoey took massive steps forward this year

We got a second rounder in return I believe for Treloar. He wins the ball when we need him, has speed, is hard, kicks goals and can actually kick when he isn’t spent. Good trade.
Correct happy with Beams gone, ungrateful whingeing brat after what Collingwood did for him when he had his legal problems. Couldn't be bothered turning up to the Copeland. He can keep his sneering smile at Brisbane.
 

joff

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Seriously the thought of a 27 yo Watts & a 30 yo Crameri which would cost us close to one million a year in salary cap, literally make me sick in the stomach .... and a firm Pie member !


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app
I wonder if we could convince Melbourne to pay a chunk of Watts salary if they're so keen to move him on.I don't want him btw.
 

10571z

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The list isn't in that bad a shape besides replacing aging backline players. If lever was any chance I'd be going hard for him. Also using pick 6 on a half back flanker or small forward.

IMO keyforward duos are done. It's to expensive to have 2 decent ones in a team (buddy, tippet)
 

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Dead Eye Didak

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Has anyone else heard that we are not in the race for Devon Smith?
Hearing he will nominate Carlton either today or tomorrow....if so its a growing concern we as a destination club are continually overlooked.
 

Thefly38

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Has anyone else heard that we are not in the race for Devon Smith?
Hearing he will nominate Carlton either today or tomorrow....if so its a growing concern we as a destination club are continually overlooked.
Dont get too wrapped up in it.

Carlton " we really really want you we will give ypu 600k for 5 years"

Essendon " we think you wpuld fit in nicely and will give ypu 300k for 3 years, also depends what giants expect we wont pay anymore then a 3rd rounder "

Collingwood " we are imterested in the vicinity of 400k for 2 years and would cough up a second round pick if we can obtain one, still abit unsureif we will be able too."

Which "destination" club wpuld you choose.


Meanwhile, St Kilda is one of a number of clubs in pursuit of Greater Western Sydney small forward Devon Smith, along with Carlton, Essendon and Collingwood.

However, Bains said the Saints weren't going after Smith as strongly as his other suitors.

"When a player of his quality indicates that they're keen to come back to Victoria and leave their current club then obviously you've got to get into the conversation, but our interest certainly has only been a preliminary one," Bains said.

"He obviously has a few clubs there and I don't want to speak on behalf of other clubs, but certainly our interest hasn't been pursued to the same level."
 
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Scodog10

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http://www.theage.com.au/afl/collin...ngwoods-new-list-manager-20171004-gytzxl.html

The pro-scouting role – scouting players at other AFL clubs and in the state leagues as potential mature draftees or traded players – was previously ad hoc but will now have a dedicated person or persons. Magpies recruiter Matt Rendell is expected to focus solely on pro scouting in the next year.
And the results have reflected that!

The Pies' general manager of football, Geoff Walsh, said the club review had identified list management and recruitment as areas that needed greater resources.
No shit Sherlock!

To all the posters that love to back the club for any possible reason this is exactly why people like me get pissed off. As an outsider you bang on about this for years and the dimwits in charge need a review to figure it out? In a nutshell this is exactly what's wrong with the people running our club.

Ed and co have been asleep at the wheel and the only bloke held to account was Davoren who was another guy that was given far too much rope! It's such a hollow and disappointing feeling to have a negative view validated...

Edit: this also reflects the standard of AFL journalism. There's a story in asking why we had the role filled ad hoc? And why we needed a review to determine it wasn't working? But no it needed to be a couple of hidden lines in an article about an appointment we've been all over for 12 hrs!
 
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Dead Eye Didak

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Has anyone else heard that we are not in the race for Devon Smith?
Hearing he will nominate Carlton either today or tomorrow....if so its a growing concern we as a destination club are continually overlooked.
When l say destination club, players do want to come to our club eg Adams, Treloar, WHE, Howe, Wells, Dunn and even Mayne, and most of these guys have been fantastic for us. Wells in 10 games was brilliant.
lm more talking of the big fishes of the trade period, we in the past few years just cannot land one, and its just not the name of player, the guys that we seem to be missing out on, would make us such a better side.
We missed on Lever, hope we can land Smith, but that also may have passed us.
Seems to me are focus is all into Watts, which in the light of day, l dont mind, if he can focus on footy for a whole season and not be distracted by things that may effect his form.
 
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Dead Eye Didak

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Dont get too wrapped up in it.

Carlton " we really really want you we will give ypu 600k for 5 years"

Essendon " we think you wpuld fit in nicely and will give ypu 300k for 3 years, also depends what giants expect we wont pay anymore then a 3rd rounder "

Collingwood " we are imterested in the vicinity of 400k for 2 years and would cough up a second round pick if we can obtain one, still abit unsureif we will be able too."

Which "destination" club wpuld you choose.
Yeah true, either way l like Smith as a player, so lm hooping Ad's, Treloar and WHE are on the phone to him. I believe Bucks has spoken to him already, so you never know.
 

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I agree with you that the team requires a second marking target up forward and that a second genuine KPF(not elite just competent) is the most sustainable model but it is not the only model.

Given the composition of the list there are two possibilities that stand out for me. First is one of Cox or Reid at full forward. The problem with this is that they lack mobility. Therefore if you go down this route the forward structure has to be set up so that they always have one or more smalls in support, first to crumb off any aerial contests and second to provide defensive pressure, either directly or by corralling the opposition back towards the big guys(they may lack agility but they still take up real estate).

The second option would be to use Fasolo as an undersized key forward(I distinctly remember a game against Richmond where he made Rance look second rate in many one on one contests). Again for this to work the forward line structures have to be organised to suit, in this case that would mean coordinated leading patterns to separate the defenders otherwise an undersized forward line is liable to concede too many intercept marks.

The two obstacles to either of these plans working are first they require a level of organisation and team work among the forwards that has been absent the past several seasons. The second is that the four main forwards in these scenarios being Moore, Elliot, Fasolo and Cox/Reid are not able to provide enough at ground level. Therefore as the two lesser talents of the four only one of Cox/Reid or Fasolo should play in the same line up and the other replaced by a small who can provide defensive pressure while still contributing on the score board.

That leads me to my conclusion that if looking for a ready made player to improve the forward line it is not a key forward but a small that should be targeted while another tall is acquired through the draft. A quality ready made small will be cheaper allowing pick six to be retained hopefully for use on a young KPP while also providing flexibility to the coaches when determining their preferred forward structure by compensating for what would otherwise be top heavy set ups.
Who would you target from opposition lists as a small forward?
 

regpies

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It would surely be a trade if it happened, the Suns aren't just going to let him walk. At that point the cost becomes too much $1.2M in salary, plus whatever we need to trade out, potentially two first rounders again? It was worth it for Treloar, but it would be a mistake to go there again for Lynch, we'd be really diluting our list.
Suns likely to finish bottom 4. Lynch gets a massive deal their free agency compo would be better than any trade. They finish 17th they’ll get pick 3 and prob pick 19 as compo
 

Thefly38

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Yeah true, either way l like Smith as a player, so lm hooping Ad's, Treloar and WHE are on the phone to him. I believe Bucks has spoken to him already, so you never know.

Yeah agree, I think with smith its the factor of these others guys as he would be choosing us , I know thats a big assumption but he has strong mates at the club his managers about to become list manager, So if we are not the nominated club in this case of devon, I would put it down to any or a combination of we are nowhere near as keen as the other clubs , not offering anywhere near the same amount of money , not offering as long a deal time wise.
 

Quicky

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Devon Smiths forward pressure is shit. He's quick but he's as hungry as Fasolo but without the talent. I'm not sure where this myth that he's a pressure forward came from. Let Carlton make that mistake.
 

Thefly38

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Star Gold Coast forward Tom Lynch "has one foot out the door" and is set to leave after his contract expires at the end of next year, a report in The Courier Mail says.

Lynch has told people close to him he would return home to Victoria to a club with a chance of premiership success if the Suns don't become better quickly.

The co-captain's manager Robbie D'Orazio told NAB AFL Trade Radio on Wednesday Lynch would be at the club next year, but it seems likely he departs after that


Why is it assumed he willl pick Collingwood ?

I think if we have a quiet trade period this year , we are very very very confident that he will be coming or someone of equal stature. Think confidence levels of Gary Abllet was going to Gold Coast or Dangerfield was going back to the cats.
 
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