List Mgmt. Trade & F/A - 2020

[Thatsmyname]

There’s a few need to be moved on

We don’t have a great draft hand

We didn’t trade in much

We must be looking at DFAs still need to fill list.

Bennell ?????????????

Dunno but he'd be a better bet than player 150

 

[Pragmatic Shill]

I have just found out on good authority that Josh Worrell is the player we wanted/are wanting to get into the first round for.

 

[Saintly Viewed]

O'Meara, Mitchell, Scully and Patton all have big question marks on their durability going forward, even if they are mid twenties. It's one thing to cry when say Mayne gets a $500k contract, but why do posters celebrate it on here when Hawthorn pay exorbitant amounts of salary for guys like Patton, Scully etc when their are huge risks on their durability?

Hawthorn never get anything wrong that’s why.
That’s fake news that they almost went bung and out of business in the so called merger with Melbourne.

They had terrific players they had success. Built from the prime draft picks.

Now they are getting the sick bay off cuts, patching them up, paying big money, hoping that they play like they are virgin uninjured bodies.

Doubt it’s a winning strategy.

 

[Phil Inn]

We've made a GF and a prelim over the last 2 years. To me, a list managers role is to create a list that can compete for a premiership. It is up to the coaches and the players themselves to actually win in.

To be in the position we are, it means we have a good list which for 2 years in a row has got within a touching distance of ultimate success. So I can't see how that is mis-management.

I agree there have been a few failed deals, but that was largely before Ned Guys time. Overall, I still have us in a position to compete in 2021 again, which is again reflective of the fact we have a good list.

I sincerely hope though we can trade back into the first round this year and nail our draft pick, and then get Reef next year through having enough points. I think if we do those 2 things, it has overall been a solid off-season because we've kept all our guns and still brought in young talent.

We have a list good enough to be in the mix. The single thing holding us back from ultimate success in that period has not been our list, our list management, or even or KPF stocks. It is our high performance team, specifically injury management. If we had an injury list at the end of either of the last two years like Richmond's or Brisbane's this year, we would have won at least one of those flags. Every team has to make compromises in their list, its the nature of the equalisation at the core of the league. Everyone is going to make mistakes in list management too, and have blokes on too much. Our list has been consistently exposed under the harshest scrutiny at the business end though by virtue of the ridiculous number of injuries, and the rate of reinjury to critical players.

Its not just the ones missing outright too over and over like De Goey and Moore and Elliot. Pendles was compromised most of last year, Treloar's double hammy meant he was and remains nowhere near as effective, Beams hip was clearly a part of why his numbers were not great early this year, WHE has been crap since his shin/knee last year even when on the field, Cox was hampered worse than was said by his ankle. All players have injuries I know but we have had a wretched run with key players under significant duress for long periods and their productivity has suffered too. In an ideal world you would give them a break but their replacements have been injured too.

 

[unplugged]

I have just found out on good authority that Josh Worrell is the player we wanted/are wanting to get into the first round for.

I've got Worrell at 17 on my power ranking comparison spreadsheet.

He played for Sandy though... not the Chargers, so, are you sure?

This guy is gonna be our new Logue.

 

[Mick F]

Reid is cooked we have known that for 5 years

Shame. Could have been a good footballer - seems a lovely bloke.

 

[unplugged]

I have just found out on good authority that Josh Worrell is the player we wanted/are wanting to get into the first round for.

Just saw he sat a lot of this year out with a shoulder injury. I love those Witherden, Burton types that potentially slide down despite being top end talent.

 

[Pragmatic Shill]

I've got Worrell at 17 on my power ranking comparison spreadsheet.

He played for Sandy though... not the Chargers, so, are you sure?

This guy is gonna be our new Logue.

Very sure.

 

[swoop42]

And if Lynch had nominated Collingwood you can bet we'd have had to offload players in exactly the same way Richmond did. It's no coincidence that new deals for Moore and Langdon weren't finalised before Lynch announced his decision. It's no coincidence that the Beams deal wasn't formalised until after Lynch made his announcement. It's all very much a chicken - egg discussion. Richmond off-loaded because they signed Lynch, we retained because we didn't.

Richmond didn't need to trade any player with the talent of Moore let alone a key position player with his potential to fit Lynch in though.

The money tied up in Mayne and Wells ultimately limited the amount we could offer Lynch or another A grade talent and if we had our time again I doubt we'd do those trades.

 

[nahnah]

I've got Worrell at 17 on my power ranking comparison spreadsheet.

He played for Sandy though... not the Chargers, so, are you sure?

This guy is gonna be our new Logue.

Is being a new Logue really a thing lol what do you mean by being a new Logue?

 

[unplugged]

Is being a new Logue really a thing lol what do you mean by being a new Logue?

There was some talk that someone asked Hine at an end of season function if there were any players he fancied at the top end of the draft, and he apparently said Logue. At the time no one really had Logue as a top ten prospect IIRC.

He ended up going at 7 or something, but a lot of supporters here really wanted him because of the apparent chat.

 

[sr36]

If you were sooking about Collingwood's trajectory from 14-17 then you cannot really praise or wait and see on the Hawks, fairs fair, four years since they won a final... We know why they get a jail out of free card from the media but it makes no sense on this board.

That's what gets me about the rhetoric on this board regarding how badly we've managed the list compared with how wonderfully the Hawks are operating.

If you want to use a model for how to re-build and get yourself challenging quickly again, we're the model. We began our re-build in 2013 and we were back challenging in 2018 without fully bottoming out and with a list that looks like it should continue to challenge for a fair while. The Hawks are rolling the dice on a whole lot of high risk moves. Even if they get extremely lucky and all of their moves pay off, they'll only have a couple of years and their window will only be slightly ajar before they have to start again.

I was pretty critical when it was unfolding at the time, because I wasn't willing to accept that our time was done with that team, but our post 2012 strategy has worked:

While they still have some value, trade out some blokes who you don't think will take you forward - Shaw, Wellingham, Dawes, Thomas (without being an actual trade).
Hold on to blokes who you think will take you forward: Sidebottom, Pendles, Reid, Cloke
Trade in some talented youngsters who could give you 7+ years of good service if things go right. - Treloar, Adams, Howe, WHE, Aish
Hit some drafts: Degoey, Grundy, Moore, Stephenson, Shaz and Freeman
Have a bit of luck with low profile kids: Maynard, Crisp, Mihocek

Voila, you've got a core that can put you in contention for a 5 year stretch. And it's without selling the future or needing everything to go right, as it clearly hasn't with guys like Shaz, Freeman, Aish, Reid, Cloke etc..

 

[Apex36]

Doggies be Chasing Moore Still

Not sure they can afford him anymore after using a lot of cash to lure Bruce and Keith.

 

[jackcass]

Richmond didn't need to trade any player with the talent of Moore let alone a key position player with his potential to fit Lynch in though.

The money tied up in Mayne and Wells ultimately limited the amount we could offer Lynch or another A grade talent and if we had our time again I doubt we'd do those trades.

Cost benefit. You trade 1 quality player or multiple mid range players. Gets you to the same point.

Go back and re-read the Moore related threads of that time. More than a few were advocating to trade him because he was too injury prone. More than a few were questioning if he'd ever realise his potential.

And I'm certainly not one of those suggesting losing Moore was the way to go. It may in fact have been that the delay in re-signing Moore may well have been how much we could augment our offer to him and recruit Lynch if we lost Langdon. Both were unsigned. Bookends of Moore and Lynch would have more than justified losing Langdon.

 

[ExcitementMachine]

sr36 I'm rapped with the trajectory of Hawthorn and Essendon ~ they are primed for mediocrity.
What I wouldn't have liked to see Hawthorn do is trade out guys like Breust, Gunston and Smith for early draft picks.
Think that guys like Mitchell, Scully, Patton, Wingard, Impey, O'Meara are on very good salaries, above the average for such players.
In the past five years they have recruited about three likely types that I can think of, Sicily, Worpel and Lewis looks exciting. Not much else I can think of.

If 2020 fails (another year in a row) do they trade out the likes of the guys they've brought in?
They also let Brad Hill go for pick 23.

 

[jackcass]

We have a list good enough to be in the mix. The single thing holding us back from ultimate success in that period has not been our list, our list management, or even or KPF stocks. It is our high performance team, specifically injury management. If we had an injury list at the end of either of the last two years like Richmond's or Brisbane's this year, we would have won at least one of those flags. Every team has to make compromises in their list, its the nature of the equalisation at the core of the league. Everyone is going to make mistakes in list management too, and have blokes on too much. Our list has been consistently exposed under the harshest scrutiny at the business end though by virtue of the ridiculous number of injuries, and the rate of reinjury to critical players.

Its not just the ones missing outright too over and over like De Goey and Moore and Elliot. Pendles was compromised most of last year, Treloar's double hammy meant he was and remains nowhere near as effective, Beams hip was clearly a part of why his numbers were not great early this year, WHE has been crap since his shin/knee last year even when on the field, Cox was hampered worse than was said by his ankle. All players have injuries I know but we have had a wretched run with key players under significant duress for long periods and their productivity has suffered too. In an ideal world you would give them a break but their replacements have been injured too.

Trying to shift the focus away from community basketball?

 

[No SPIN]

And we were forced to dump Aush’s contract to fit Darcy Cameron in. Shows where we are at

So you would have preferred we keep Aish ( who we can be easily replaced) and not get a back up for Grundy.
I doubt many here would agree with you.

 

[Seedsfan]

What’s your point?

Reid’s contract expires at the end of 2020. In 2021 when we might need some cap room back we can retire him off. Short term with lack of options he’s still a required player. He was one crooked set shot off from sending us into a grand final in 2019 and was more than handy during the year when fit.

Keeping Aish who was contracted into 2021 would not free up cap when we needed it. Trading him now helps prevent next seasons draft period from becoming a fire sale.

Better off cutting your losses with Reid. Take a shot on a rookie they maybe a bust but may also work. You know with Reid he will sit out 15 games. What’s the point

 

[Seedsfan]

Seriously? That's what you've concluded?

Look if you aren’t moving forward you are going backwards. Lions Tigers Eagles Giants and Dogs all likely to finish higher than us next year.

 

[Seedsfan]

So you would have preferred we keep Aish ( who we can be easily replaced) and not get a back up for Grundy.
I doubt many here would agree with you.

Not phased about Aish going. Don’t see the need for Cameron the NEAFL standard is on par with local footy. Cox Lynch and Roughead could of all rucked if Grundy went down

 

[Seedsfan]

We've made a GF and a prelim over the last 2 years. To me, a list managers role is to create a list that can compete for a premiership. It is up to the coaches and the players themselves to actually win in.

To be in the position we are, it means we have a good list which for 2 years in a row has got within a touching distance of ultimate success. So I can't see how that is mis-management.

I agree there have been a few failed deals, but that was largely before Ned Guys time. Overall, I still have us in a position to compete in 2021 again, which is again reflective of the fact we have a good list.

I sincerely hope though we can trade back into the first round this year and nail our draft pick, and then get Reef next year through having enough points. I think if we do those 2 things, it has overall been a solid off-season because we've kept all our guns and still brought in young talent.

Yet we fail time and time again due to not having a tall forward and we do nothing yet again to try and land one

 

[jackcass]

Look if you aren’t moving forward you are going backwards. Lions Tigers Eagles Giants and Dogs all likely to finish higher than us next year.

Oh, I agree.

Not sure how that relates to your comment that we had to dump Aish to accommodate Cameron though.

Aish was told he's a wanted player but that we can't commit to a contract extension beyond 2020 until the big 3 deals wash out. We were getting Cameron either way. That deal was finalised well before the Aish deal.

There's just about zero correlation between the 2.

 

[Seedsfan]

Oh, I agree.

Not sure how that relates to your comment that we had to dump Aish to accommodate Cameron though.

Aish was told he's a wanted player but that we can't commit to a contract extension beyond 2020 until the big 3 deals wash out. We were getting Cameron either way. That deal was finalised well before the Aish deal.

There's just about zero correlation between the 2.

The bulk of the other clubs around us improved their list and all we can manage to do to try and keep up is unload a player and sign a bloke who may as well of been playing local footy.

Think we had to look to make some bold moves

 

[No SPIN]

Not phased about Aish going. Don’t see the need for Cameron the NEAFL standard is on par with local footy. Cox Lynch and Roughead could of all rucked if Grundy went down

In your earlier post you decried the fact we were FORCED to trade Aish to fit in Cameron.

Seriously - make up your mind.

 

[Seedsfan]

In your earlier post you decried the fact we were FORCED to trade Aish to fit in Cameron.

Seriously - make up your mind.

My opinion hasn’t changed. We were forced to dump Aish to make room to accomodate everyone within the cap.

Personally I don’t have a massive issue losing Aish as a player but the fact he is forced out says something about where we are at.