List Mgmt. Trade for ready made or draft?

Draft v Trade

  • Draft. Invest youth.

    Votes: 27 79.4%
  • Trade. Ready to go

    Votes: 7 20.6%

  • Total voters
    34

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Jonesracing82

Norm Smith Medallist
Nov 13, 2011
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Broadly agree with this but say someone like a 23-24yo Prestia is a player type you need and might be available in a trade. You trade picks to fair value don’t you?

I definitely agree the way the Hawks did it wasn’t right when they started targeting premium players like O’Meara and Wingard and just paid whatever it took in draft picks to get them in, as if their best previous form would be automatically attained at Hawthorn and there is no downside risk to price into the trade. I really don’t want Richmond to ever do that sort of thing.

I don’t think you can just use Free Agency or just trades or just the draft ultimately.

Just Free Agency = too much cap spaced used because these guys are mostly available for the highest or near the highest bidder.

Just trades = you may do a bit better cap space wise if you are lucky but will use too much draft capital to get quality players in at reasonable salaries.

Just draft = possible quality list in the future but due to variance in development of different types of players some puzzle pieces missing.

The thing is Free Agency, the Trade Period and the Draft happen sequentially. The Draft is always last in the sequence. So if you can get good value Free Agents and trades then take them and the draft is the fall back position. Free Agents and trades are probably not often great value so you mainly should default to the Draft.

Let’s go back to say 2015 to get a concept of relative value from each method of bringing players in. Let’s compare each traded player and Free Agent with the player taken in the draft with the compensation received just to give a bit of a vague concept.

Significant Free Agents


PlayerPlayer taken with comp pickWinning choice
SucklingMathiesonFA
S SelwoodSydney used as points for MillsDraft
LuenbergerBrisbane used as points for HipwoodDraft
5 other FA’s changed hands for no comp and none worked out any good


Significant Trades

DangerfieldWayne Milera & Mitch HibberdTrade(though Milera could be a very good player yet)
ReddenBen McKayTrade(though McKay could yet change that)
Lachie HendersonJarrod BerryDraft
Harley Bennell & pick used for Darcy TuckerFiorini & BalicNo winners only losers
JettaSinclair(straight player swap)indeterminate
MelkshamRedmanhard to say, trade ahead at this stage
AndersonBurtonclose, maybe Draft
Curtley HamptonDarcy(Freo)Draft
Townsendpick not usedTrade
RosaTom ColeDraft

Too many to list the lot but this gives a taste. The draft does seem to get better outcomes overall from this small sample.
Of course it's a fluid situation & if a trade is there like you mentioned you have to do it. What we can't afford to do tho is trade out of Drafts in order to attempt to prolong our stay at the top a.k.a Hawks, as we can see with them it only gets you so far & makes the cliff worse which is about what is to happen with the moggies once thier stars start to retire.The system makes impossible to stay on top forever & i reckon if we hit the Draft now & really add to the next wave we have coming through it should make for a lesser drop before another prolonged stay at the top. Throwing the kitchen sink at a flag is ok if u can win one but if you don't it makes the cliff steeper & harder to accept, look at St Kilda, once they fell it's taken them almost a decade just to get back to a Finals campaign.
 

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THE_GUN

R.I.P Shane Tuck 21
Dec 28, 2007
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ill give you ross. RCD showing 'a bit' in the vfl after 3 years doesnt mean a lot, stack probably isnt at the club next year, caddy will retire with the current crop, and george/aarts are small forwards who could pinch hit at times.
Fact of the matter is we really dont know what players like Martyn , Cumberland , Ross , RCD , Dow , Naish etc would have done last year as we never needed them to step up and they had no VFL games to show their talents and all will be 18 months older than when we last seen them play full games and 18 months development both physically and game knowledge is a lot.

RCD was on the fringe of games last season and all the coaches and specially dimma mentioned him a few time during the year as well as putting a 2 year deal on the table for him which the club really wanting to keep him tells me he has what it takes.

Truth is our midfield is experienced takented and usually healthy and the kids are having to wait their time - Which is what all good teams try to do with their kids.
 

Tiger_Of_Old

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Nov 23, 2000
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Alex Lukic (Oakleigh Chargers/Vic Metro)
7/01/2003 | 195cm/86kg
Key Forward


Lukic is an athletic tall forward who fares particularly well close to goal. After leading the Under 16 Division 1 goalkicking with nine majors, he made his NAB League debut in a stacked Oakleigh side and showed plenty of promise. Has good speed and can compete at ground level.



Jacob Van Rooyen (Claremont/Western Australia)
16/04/2003 | 194cm/88kg
Key Forward


A dominant key forward with terrific aerial presence, Van Rooyen is one of the leading prospects in his position for 2021. He booted 19 goals in 10 WAFL Colts games this season, finding the big sticks at least once in each outing
How good if both available at picks 17 & 18.
 

Tiger_Of_Old

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Nov 23, 2000
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Fact of the matter is we really dont know what players like Martyn , Cumberland , Ross , RCD , Dow , Naish etc would have done last year as we never needed them to step up and they had no VFL games to show their talents and all will be 18 months older than when we last seen them play full games and 18 months development both physically and game knowledge is a lot.

RCD was on the fringe of games last season and all the coaches and specially dimma mentioned him a few time during the year as well as putting a 2 year deal on the table for him which the club really wanting to keep him tells me he has what it takes.

Truth is our midfield is experienced takented and usually healthy and the kids are having to wait their time - Which is what all good teams try to do with their kids.
Micheal Tuck played what? 70 odd reserves games before becoming a regular senior player?
 

box070

Club Legend
Jan 8, 2021
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Fact of the matter is we really dont know what players like Martyn , Cumberland , Ross , RCD , Dow , Naish etc would have done last year as we never needed them to step up and they had no VFL games to show their talents and all will be 18 months older than when we last seen them play full games and 18 months development both physically and game knowledge is a lot.

RCD was on the fringe of games last season and all the coaches and specially dimma mentioned him a few time during the year as well as putting a 2 year deal on the table for him which the club really wanting to keep him tells me he has what it takes.

Truth is our midfield is experienced takented and usually healthy and the kids are having to wait their time - Which is what all good teams try to do with their kids.
RCD was probably the one player hampered the most by the lack of VFL. I expect him to get a crack this year. Same with Ross and Dow. They’ll start to transition the midfield IMO
 

Grrr

Norm Smith Medallist
Aug 16, 2009
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mildura
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Fact of the matter is we really dont know what players like Martyn , Cumberland , Ross , RCD , Dow , Naish etc would have done last year as we never needed them to step up and they had no VFL games to show their talents and all will be 18 months older than when we last seen them play full games and 18 months development both physically and game knowledge is a lot.

RCD was on the fringe of games last season and all the coaches and specially dimma mentioned him a few time during the year as well as putting a 2 year deal on the table for him which the club really wanting to keep him tells me he has what it takes.

Truth is our midfield is experienced takented and usually healthy and the kids are having to wait their time - Which is what all good teams try to do with their kids.
But they get impatient, like Higgins. Ross and RCD will have big money thrown at them and a permanent position if they fare well when getting games, but can't make it regular due to our strength.
 

tora tora tora

Norm Smith Medallist
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Draft a tall mobile 193-6cm max. forward. Try and find the next Riewoldt, good in the air good on the deck. It is the biggest gap in our list. It might take two drafts.
Thinking about it, the KPF is tricky. Riewoldt Joined the club in the dark days and developed in the firsts. vanrooyen is a good height but stepping straight in to KPF at Richmond while we are contending?
Van Rooyen is about 88kgs too so might need a year or two to get to the right size.
I still think Caddy is too good a footballer to not be playing. Lynch, CJ and Caddy as talls would be good.
 

Grrr

Norm Smith Medallist
Aug 16, 2009
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mildura
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Thinking about it, the KPF is tricky. Riewoldt Joined the club in the dark days and developed in the firsts. vanrooyen is a good height but stepping straight in to KPF at Richmond while we are contending?
Van Rooyen is about 88kgs too so might need a year or two to get to the right size.
I still think Caddy is too good a footballer to not be playing. Lynch, CJ and Caddy as talls would be good.
They don't have to play straight off. A season or two in the VFL no problem. Lynch is there for a while, Jack, although I reckon it is catching up on him pretty quick. We have other options as you say. But medium term need a second forward.
 

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tora tora tora

Norm Smith Medallist
Jul 3, 2008
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With 22 players OOC. Goal 1 is to retain players, goal 2 install a talent transition plan. Hopefully one maybe two flags out of current coaching/playing group.

Miller 4​
Non-Free Agent​
2​
Non-Free Agent​
4​
Non-Free Agent​
6​
Non-Free Agent​
12​
Unrestricted Free Agent​
5​
Non-Free Agent​
12​
Unrestricted Free Agent​
2​
Non-Free Agent​
7​
Non-Free Agent​
15​
Unrestricted Free Agent​
7​
Non-Free Agent​
9​
Restricted Free Agent​
4​
Non-Free Agent​
6​
Non-Free Agent​
9​
Restricted Free Agent​
4​
Non-Free Agent​
2​
Non-Free Agent​
4​
Non-Free Agent​
2​
Non-Free Agent​
5​
Non-Free Agent​
15​
Unrestricted Free Agent​
3​
Non-Free Agent​
2​
Non-Free Agent​
 

sregit

Club Legend
Feb 9, 2012
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Fact of the matter is we really dont know what players like Martyn , Cumberland , Ross , RCD , Dow , Naish etc would have done last year as we never needed them to step up and they had no VFL games to show their talents and all will be 18 months older than when we last seen them play full games and 18 months development both physically and game knowledge is a lot.

RCD was on the fringe of games last season and all the coaches and specially dimma mentioned him a few time during the year as well as putting a 2 year deal on the table for him which the club really wanting to keep him tells me he has what it takes.

Truth is our midfield is experienced takented and usually healthy and the kids are having to wait their time - Which is what all good teams try to do with their kids.
we know what Naish would do. Absolutely nothing. He will be delisted at years end and most likely would have been delisted this year if he had not had a year to run on his contract.
 

Tiger_Of_Old

🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆
Nov 23, 2000
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Thinking about it, the KPF is tricky. Riewoldt Joined the club in the dark days and developed in the firsts. vanrooyen is a good height but stepping straight in to KPF at Richmond while we are contending?
Van Rooyen is about 88kgs too so might need a year or two to get to the right size.
I still think Caddy is too good a footballer to not be playing. Lynch, CJ and Caddy as talls would be good.
I don't mind the caddy option.Shown in the past he is capable.
 

Tygrys

All Australian
Mar 26, 2009
639
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Clayton
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Not that you ever want injuries but in terms of what direction we should head this draft, this might be the best thing that could happen to us. RCD, Coleman-Jones, Dow, Chol, Miller, Naish etc have been on the list for a pretty long time. Unless a line has already been drawn through any of their names they need to be played and assessed and decisions need to be made. I am very very wary of the Hawthorn cautionary tale of trading picks away to extend a window and what can happen when you do this, and have been very happy about Richmond resisting that temptation up to this point. In what is reportedly a very strong draft it's very rare for a club as successful as ours an opportunity for wholesale renewal without having at least a partial fire-sale of players.

Plus, and this is really important, if the game has really permanently changed to a faster more open contest with big forwards making a comeback then this really is an excellent chance to have a mass influx of quality kids to cope with this new dynamic and hopefully remain competitive well into this decade. True we 'may' slip back to the pack for a year or two, but with luck and good drafting, and perhaps another free agent or two, the inevitable long term decline the rest of the competition hope and pray for just might not happen. Again I hope we hit the draft really hard and avoid the temptation of some big fish.
 

Bird Man

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Oct 4, 2010
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I would be down for the draft but in recent years we are terrible at first-round picks
 

Jonesracing82

Norm Smith Medallist
Nov 13, 2011
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Melbourne
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hate them all
Not that you ever want injuries but in terms of what direction we should head this draft, this might be the best thing that could happen to us. RCD, Coleman-Jones, Dow, Chol, Miller, Naish etc have been on the list for a pretty long time. Unless a line has already been drawn through any of their names they need to be played and assessed and decisions need to be made. I am very very wary of the Hawthorn cautionary tale of trading picks away to extend a window and what can happen when you do this, and have been very happy about Richmond resisting that temptation up to this point. In what is reportedly a very strong draft it's very rare for a club as successful as ours an opportunity for wholesale renewal without having at least a partial fire-sale of players.

Plus, and this is really important, if the game has really permanently changed to a faster more open contest with big forwards making a comeback then this really is an excellent chance to have a mass influx of quality kids to cope with this new dynamic and hopefully remain competitive well into this decade. True we 'may' slip back to the pack for a year or two, but with luck and good drafting, and perhaps another free agent or two, the inevitable long term decline the rest of the competition hope and pray for just might not happen. Again I hope we hit the draft really hard and avoid the temptation of some big fish.
This is a brilliant post, fact is we are not going to be up for ever & we can do a mini rebuild while still contending, my hope is we go to the Draft. Imagine adding Sydney's kids to our current side, this is exactly what we can do at the end of this yr.
 

Charlie Pannam

Norm Smith Medallist
Aug 15, 2015
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This is a brilliant post, fact is we are not going to be up for ever & we can do a mini rebuild while still contending, my hope is we go to the Draft. Imagine adding Sydney's kids to our current side, this is exactly what we can do at the end of this yr.
We’ve invested so heavily in list management and recruitment that we absolutely should go to the draft.
2 first and second round picks could set us up for a long period and I’ll back Clarke and co in to make the right calls and identify another Balta and Bolton.
 

THE_GUN

R.I.P Shane Tuck 21
Dec 28, 2007
31,147
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We will have 4 picks inside the top 35-37 range with 2 picks inside top18

Fantastic opportunity to pickup 4 of the best kids inside the top 35 in what's touted as one of the strongest drafts in history due to last years covid shutdown
there will be kids that are likely top 10 quality going 15-20 positions higher due to the depth of talent.

Our recruiters will be all over these kids and will be making their choices wisely with 1 eye on the now and 1 on the 3 years time view
Cotchin , Astbury , Houli , Jack and possibly Shed's , Caddy , Grimes either finished or close to being finished opening up cap room
 

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