List Mgmt. Trade for ready made or draft?

[Marcel Proust]

Ideally go to the draft and target a free agent or two if we have the cap space. If we don’t then we have no choice but go to the draft which is fine and we have set ourselves up well to do so.

This is the ideal scenario imo... Mouth watering. Might take some creative accounting

 

[tony__montana]

The good news is with Houli likely retiring and cotch and Jack at the very end of their not insignificant deals we already have considerable cap space opening up - got to the draft to really set us up long term then target free agents free agents

 

[JR82]

Broadly agree with this but say someone like a 23-24yo Prestia is a player type you need and might be available in a trade. You trade picks to fair value don’t you?

I definitely agree the way the Hawks did it wasn’t right when they started targeting premium players like O’Meara and Wingard and just paid whatever it took in draft picks to get them in, as if their best previous form would be automatically attained at Hawthorn and there is no downside risk to price into the trade. I really don’t want Richmond to ever do that sort of thing.

I don’t think you can just use Free Agency or just trades or just the draft ultimately.

Just Free Agency = too much cap spaced used because these guys are mostly available for the highest or near the highest bidder.

Just trades = you may do a bit better cap space wise if you are lucky but will use too much draft capital to get quality players in at reasonable salaries.

Just draft = possible quality list in the future but due to variance in development of different types of players some puzzle pieces missing.

The thing is Free Agency, the Trade Period and the Draft happen sequentially. The Draft is always last in the sequence. So if you can get good value Free Agents and trades then take them and the draft is the fall back position. Free Agents and trades are probably not often great value so you mainly should default to the Draft.

Let’s go back to say 2015 to get a concept of relative value from each method of bringing players in. Let’s compare each traded player and Free Agent with the player taken in the draft with the compensation received just to give a bit of a vague concept.

Significant Free Agents

Player	Player taken with comp pick	Winning choice
Suckling	Mathieson	FA
S Selwood	Sydney used as points for Mills	Draft
Luenberger	Brisbane used as points for Hipwood	Draft
5 other FA’s changed hands for no comp and none worked out any good

Significant Trades

Dangerfield	Wayne Milera & Mitch Hibberd	Trade(though Milera could be a very good player yet)
Redden	Ben McKay	Trade(though McKay could yet change that)
Lachie Henderson	Jarrod Berry	Draft
Harley Bennell & pick used for Darcy Tucker	Fiorini & Balic	No winners only losers
Jetta	Sinclair(straight player swap)	indeterminate
Melksham	Redman	hard to say, trade ahead at this stage
Anderson	Burton	close, maybe Draft
Curtley Hampton	Darcy(Freo)	Draft
Townsend	pick not used	Trade
Rosa	Tom Cole	Draft

Too many to list the lot but this gives a taste. The draft does seem to get better outcomes overall from this small sample.

Of course it's a fluid situation & if a trade is there like you mentioned you have to do it. What we can't afford to do tho is trade out of Drafts in order to attempt to prolong our stay at the top a.k.a Hawks, as we can see with them it only gets you so far & makes the cliff worse which is about what is to happen with the moggies once thier stars start to retire.The system makes impossible to stay on top forever & i reckon if we hit the Draft now & really add to the next wave we have coming through it should make for a lesser drop before another prolonged stay at the top. Throwing the kitchen sink at a flag is ok if u can win one but if you don't it makes the cliff steeper & harder to accept, look at St Kilda, once they fell it's taken them almost a decade just to get back to a Finals campaign.

 

[THE_GUN]

ill give you ross. RCD showing 'a bit' in the vfl after 3 years doesnt mean a lot, stack probably isnt at the club next year, caddy will retire with the current crop, and george/aarts are small forwards who could pinch hit at times.

Fact of the matter is we really dont know what players like Martyn , Cumberland , Ross , RCD , Dow , Naish etc would have done last year as we never needed them to step up and they had no VFL games to show their talents and all will be 18 months older than when we last seen them play full games and 18 months development both physically and game knowledge is a lot.

RCD was on the fringe of games last season and all the coaches and specially dimma mentioned him a few time during the year as well as putting a 2 year deal on the table for him which the club really wanting to keep him tells me he has what it takes.

Truth is our midfield is experienced takented and usually healthy and the kids are having to wait their time - Which is what all good teams try to do with their kids.

 

[Tiger_Of_Old]

Alex Lukic (Oakleigh Chargers/Vic Metro)
7/01/2003 | 195cm/86kg
Key Forward

Lukic is an athletic tall forward who fares particularly well close to goal. After leading the Under 16 Division 1 goalkicking with nine majors, he made his NAB League debut in a stacked Oakleigh side and showed plenty of promise. Has good speed and can compete at ground level.



Jacob Van Rooyen (Claremont/Western Australia)
16/04/2003 | 194cm/88kg
Key Forward

A dominant key forward with terrific aerial presence, Van Rooyen is one of the leading prospects in his position for 2021. He booted 19 goals in 10 WAFL Colts games this season, finding the big sticks at least once in each outing

How good if both available at picks 17 & 18.

 

[Tiger_Of_Old]

Fact of the matter is we really dont know what players like Martyn , Cumberland , Ross , RCD , Dow , Naish etc would have done last year as we never needed them to step up and they had no VFL games to show their talents and all will be 18 months older than when we last seen them play full games and 18 months development both physically and game knowledge is a lot.

RCD was on the fringe of games last season and all the coaches and specially dimma mentioned him a few time during the year as well as putting a 2 year deal on the table for him which the club really wanting to keep him tells me he has what it takes.

Truth is our midfield is experienced takented and usually healthy and the kids are having to wait their time - Which is what all good teams try to do with their kids.

Micheal Tuck played what? 70 odd reserves games before becoming a regular senior player?

 

[box070]

Fact of the matter is we really dont know what players like Martyn , Cumberland , Ross , RCD , Dow , Naish etc would have done last year as we never needed them to step up and they had no VFL games to show their talents and all will be 18 months older than when we last seen them play full games and 18 months development both physically and game knowledge is a lot.

RCD was on the fringe of games last season and all the coaches and specially dimma mentioned him a few time during the year as well as putting a 2 year deal on the table for him which the club really wanting to keep him tells me he has what it takes.

Truth is our midfield is experienced takented and usually healthy and the kids are having to wait their time - Which is what all good teams try to do with their kids.

RCD was probably the one player hampered the most by the lack of VFL. I expect him to get a crack this year. Same with Ross and Dow. They’ll start to transition the midfield IMO

 

[Grrr]

Fact of the matter is we really dont know what players like Martyn , Cumberland , Ross , RCD , Dow , Naish etc would have done last year as we never needed them to step up and they had no VFL games to show their talents and all will be 18 months older than when we last seen them play full games and 18 months development both physically and game knowledge is a lot.

RCD was on the fringe of games last season and all the coaches and specially dimma mentioned him a few time during the year as well as putting a 2 year deal on the table for him which the club really wanting to keep him tells me he has what it takes.

Truth is our midfield is experienced takented and usually healthy and the kids are having to wait their time - Which is what all good teams try to do with their kids.

But they get impatient, like Higgins. Ross and RCD will have big money thrown at them and a permanent position if they fare well when getting games, but can't make it regular due to our strength.

 

[Marcel Proust]

Micheal Tuck played what? 70 odd reserves games before becoming a regular senior player?

Times are a changing

 

[tora tora tora]

Draft a tall mobile 193-6cm max. forward. Try and find the next Riewoldt, good in the air good on the deck. It is the biggest gap in our list. It might take two drafts.

Thinking about it, the KPF is tricky. Riewoldt Joined the club in the dark days and developed in the firsts. vanrooyen is a good height but stepping straight in to KPF at Richmond while we are contending?
Van Rooyen is about 88kgs too so might need a year or two to get to the right size.
I still think Caddy is too good a footballer to not be playing. Lynch, CJ and Caddy as talls would be good.

 

[Marcel Proust]

How good if both available at picks 17 & 18.

If we like one or both of them enough, could trade up to nab em. Lots of picks and future picks to play with

 

[tora tora tora]

RCD was probably the one player hampered the most by the lack of VFL. I expect him to get a crack this year. Same with Ross and Dow. They’ll start to transition the midfield IMO

I'd select RCD as soon as possible. Need 6 or 7 Games into him.

 

[Grrr]

Thinking about it, the KPF is tricky. Riewoldt Joined the club in the dark days and developed in the firsts. vanrooyen is a good height but stepping straight in to KPF at Richmond while we are contending?
Van Rooyen is about 88kgs too so might need a year or two to get to the right size.
I still think Caddy is too good a footballer to not be playing. Lynch, CJ and Caddy as talls would be good.

They don't have to play straight off. A season or two in the VFL no problem. Lynch is there for a while, Jack, although I reckon it is catching up on him pretty quick. We have other options as you say. But medium term need a second forward.

 

[tora tora tora]

With 22 players OOC. Goal 1 is to retain players, goal 2 install a talent transition plan. Hopefully one maybe two flags out of current coaching/playing group.

Miller 4​	Non-Free Agent​
Bigoa Nyuon​	2​	Non-Free Agent​
Callum Coleman-Jones​	4​	Non-Free Agent​
Daniel Rioli​	6​	Non-Free Agent​
David Astbury​	12​	Unrestricted Free Agent​
Dion Prestia​	5​	Non-Free Agent​
Dylan Grimes​	12​	Unrestricted Free Agent​
Hugo Ralphsmith​	2​	Non-Free Agent​
Ivan Soldo​	7​	Non-Free Agent​
Jack Riewoldt​	15​	Unrestricted Free Agent​
Jason Castagna​	7​	Non-Free Agent​
Kamdyn Mcintosh​	9​	Restricted Free Agent​
Liam Baker​	4​	Non-Free Agent​
Mabior Chol​	6​	Non-Free Agent​
Nick Vlastuin​	9​	Restricted Free Agent​
Noah Balta​	4​	Non-Free Agent​
Noah Cumberland​	2​	Non-Free Agent​
Patrick Naish​	4​	Non-Free Agent​
Rhyan Mansell​	2​	Non-Free Agent​
Shai Bolton​	5​	Non-Free Agent​
Shane Edwards​	15​	Unrestricted Free Agent​
Sydney Stack​	3​	Non-Free Agent​
Thomson Dow​	2​	Non-Free Agent​
Will Martyn​

 

[Tackle Bag]

Clayton Oliver

13

Clayton Oliver

Age

26

Ht

189cm

Wt

88kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

27.8

5star

K

9.5

4star

HB

18.4

5star

M

3.2

3star

T

6.3

5star

CL

6.3

5star

D

25.1

5star

K

11.1

4star

HB

14.0

5star

M

3.6

4star

T

5.6

5star

CL

5.9

5star

D

19.2

5star

K

4.6

2star

HB

14.6

5star

M

2.0

3star

T

4.4

5star

CL

3.8

5star

and a handful of kids through the draft would be fine thanks. Oliver will be looking to jump ship once the Demons season goes off the rails again. There were rumours around him not being happy with the goings on at Melbourne last year. He’s ripe for the picking.

 

[sregit]

Fact of the matter is we really dont know what players like Martyn , Cumberland , Ross , RCD , Dow , Naish etc would have done last year as we never needed them to step up and they had no VFL games to show their talents and all will be 18 months older than when we last seen them play full games and 18 months development both physically and game knowledge is a lot.

RCD was on the fringe of games last season and all the coaches and specially dimma mentioned him a few time during the year as well as putting a 2 year deal on the table for him which the club really wanting to keep him tells me he has what it takes.

Truth is our midfield is experienced takented and usually healthy and the kids are having to wait their time - Which is what all good teams try to do with their kids.

we know what Naish would do. Absolutely nothing. He will be delisted at years end and most likely would have been delisted this year if he had not had a year to run on his contract.

 

[Tiger_Of_Old]

Thinking about it, the KPF is tricky. Riewoldt Joined the club in the dark days and developed in the firsts. vanrooyen is a good height but stepping straight in to KPF at Richmond while we are contending?
Van Rooyen is about 88kgs too so might need a year or two to get to the right size.
I still think Caddy is too good a footballer to not be playing. Lynch, CJ and Caddy as talls would be good.

I don't mind the caddy option.Shown in the past he is capable.

 

[Tygrys]

Not that you ever want injuries but in terms of what direction we should head this draft, this might be the best thing that could happen to us. RCD, Coleman-Jones, Dow, Chol, Miller, Naish etc have been on the list for a pretty long time. Unless a line has already been drawn through any of their names they need to be played and assessed and decisions need to be made. I am very very wary of the Hawthorn cautionary tale of trading picks away to extend a window and what can happen when you do this, and have been very happy about Richmond resisting that temptation up to this point. In what is reportedly a very strong draft it's very rare for a club as successful as ours an opportunity for wholesale renewal without having at least a partial fire-sale of players.

Plus, and this is really important, if the game has really permanently changed to a faster more open contest with big forwards making a comeback then this really is an excellent chance to have a mass influx of quality kids to cope with this new dynamic and hopefully remain competitive well into this decade. True we 'may' slip back to the pack for a year or two, but with luck and good drafting, and perhaps another free agent or two, the inevitable long term decline the rest of the competition hope and pray for just might not happen. Again I hope we hit the draft really hard and avoid the temptation of some big fish.

 

[Bird Man]

I would be down for the draft but in recent years we are terrible at first-round picks

 

[JR82]

Not that you ever want injuries but in terms of what direction we should head this draft, this might be the best thing that could happen to us. RCD, Coleman-Jones, Dow, Chol, Miller, Naish etc have been on the list for a pretty long time. Unless a line has already been drawn through any of their names they need to be played and assessed and decisions need to be made. I am very very wary of the Hawthorn cautionary tale of trading picks away to extend a window and what can happen when you do this, and have been very happy about Richmond resisting that temptation up to this point. In what is reportedly a very strong draft it's very rare for a club as successful as ours an opportunity for wholesale renewal without having at least a partial fire-sale of players.

Plus, and this is really important, if the game has really permanently changed to a faster more open contest with big forwards making a comeback then this really is an excellent chance to have a mass influx of quality kids to cope with this new dynamic and hopefully remain competitive well into this decade. True we 'may' slip back to the pack for a year or two, but with luck and good drafting, and perhaps another free agent or two, the inevitable long term decline the rest of the competition hope and pray for just might not happen. Again I hope we hit the draft really hard and avoid the temptation of some big fish.

This is a brilliant post, fact is we are not going to be up for ever & we can do a mini rebuild while still contending, my hope is we go to the Draft. Imagine adding Sydney's kids to our current side, this is exactly what we can do at the end of this yr.

 

[Charlie Pannam]

This is a brilliant post, fact is we are not going to be up for ever & we can do a mini rebuild while still contending, my hope is we go to the Draft. Imagine adding Sydney's kids to our current side, this is exactly what we can do at the end of this yr.

We’ve invested so heavily in list management and recruitment that we absolutely should go to the draft.
2 first and second round picks could set us up for a long period and I’ll back Clarke and co in to make the right calls and identify another Balta and Bolton.

 

[THE_GUN]

We will have 4 picks inside the top 35-37 range with 2 picks inside top18

Fantastic opportunity to pickup 4 of the best kids inside the top 35 in what's touted as one of the strongest drafts in history due to last years covid shutdown
there will be kids that are likely top 10 quality going 15-20 positions higher due to the depth of talent.

Our recruiters will be all over these kids and will be making their choices wisely with 1 eye on the now and 1 on the 3 years time view
Cotchin , Astbury , Houli , Jack and possibly Shed's , Caddy , Grimes either finished or close to being finished opening up cap room

 

[JR82]

Aints (2nd rounder) could do us a massive favour if they don't improve too, i know they have a few out but so did essendoom yesterday too.