Hot Topic Trade/Free Agency Talk 2021 edition

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footyfan1978

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I assume signing LOB & Cotts takes away our ability to take a DFA??
No, from my understanding it would be the assumed intention of upgrading Josh Honey and Matt Kennedy from rookie list to primary list on draft night is what takes away our ability to take a Delisted Free Agent on November 11 or 12. If we were to keep one of them on rookie list I guess we could grab someone as DFA to put on primary list.
 

ItsAllAboutMe

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No, from my understanding it would be the assumed intention of upgrading Josh Honey and Matt Kennedy from rookie list to primary list on draft night is what takes away our ability to take a Delisted Free Agent on November 11 or 12. If we were to keep one of them on rookie list I guess we could grab someone as DFA to put on primary list.
May as well leave MK on a rookie and then upgrade him for Doc on the LTI
 

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blue healer

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Where's your 'feeling' come from?
He wants to stay at Carlton, and Carlton are committed to him.
It seems Carlton are only committed to him as a rookie and most likely for a one year contract only.

I don't know that this is a ringing endorsement of him by the club and it could easily be seen as an indication that we are not at all confident that he will get a lot of games.

If another club were to offer him 2 years on the primary list he could easily assume that club would be more likely to give him a regular game.

If it were me and this scenario presented itself I would find it very difficult not to take that offer regardless of my love for the club.

I agree, probably unlikely but not without a chance of playing out.
 

footyfan1978

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We need to wait until the DFA period opens on NOV 3. I’ve got a feeling that LOB may move on. There’s a few sides who could take a chance on him. That leaves an open spot.
LOB is going on the rookie list. He is already off the primary list so DFA is only if we created an extra vacant spot on primary list. It is not happening. The 3 spots for National draft are pick 25 and the two upgrades of Honey and Kennedy
 

blue healer

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LOB is going on the rookie list. He is already off the primary list so DFA is only if we created an extra vacant spot on primary list. It is not happening. The 3 spots for National draft are pick 25 and the two upgrades of Honey and Kennedy
Not sure what you are saying here.

Are you saying that he cannot be taken by another club because he isn't a DFA?

If this is so, I don't understand. We've taken him off the primary list which has created a vacancy there so it would seem to me that he is, in fact, a DFA until such a time we either re-sign him or rookie which, I thought, can only be done during the rookie draft. I thought he has become a FA until then. A little like what happened with Newnes who the Saints de-listed despite having a contract in front of him to allow us to pick him up as a DFA.

Am I wrong?
 

footyfan1978

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Not sure what you are saying here.

Are you saying that he cannot be taken by another club because he isn't a DFA?

If this is so, I don't understand. We've taken him off the primary list which has created a vacancy there so it would seem to me that he is, in fact, a DFA until such a time we either re-sign him or rookie which, I thought, can only be done during the rookie draft. I thought he has become a FA until then. A little like what happened with Newnes who the Saints de-listed despite having a contract in front of him to allow us to pick him up as a DFA.

Am I wrong?
I see what you still have a query about.
You unsure how LOB is off primary list but is going to the rookie list before the rookie draft happens.
I think that just the weird AFL rules in this time where rookie draft picks are allocated for players going off primary list onto rookie list for clubs.
I myself have not found the exact wording that makes it clear.
But that is a different issue to the taking a Delisted Free Agent. DFA are not going on rookie list, they are for the primary list.
So if we were to take a DFA we would need to only have 32 on primary list now to allow for the 3 mandatory slots to do with National Draft and 1 for DFA period before it. We have 33 players on primary list which only leaves room for the 3 mandatory selections in National draft.

Newnes case is different to LOB because he asked for Saints to take him off their list so he could move to Carlton as a DFA and they intended to keep him and offer him a contract but he wanted to move to Carlton.
LOB has not done that. As far as we can tell there is an agreement between the club and his manager that he remaining at Carlton but the contract they are agreeing to is only for rookie list spot. He probably wanted to remain on primary list but they are offering a rookie list spot and he must have accepted that rather than try to change clubs.
If he wanted to move clubs can only assume he would have said, I do not want a rookie list spot, you offering me and try his luck as a DFA but that has not happened.
 

swuzzlebubble

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I see what you still have a query about.
You unsure how LOB is off primary list but is going to the rookie list before the rookie draft happens.
I think that just the weird AFL rules in this time where rookie draft picks are allocated for players going off primary list onto rookie list for clubs.
I myself have not found the exact wording that makes it clear.
But that is a different issue to the taking a Delisted Free Agent. DFA are not going on rookie list, they are for the primary list.
So if we were to take a DFA we would need to only have 32 on primary list now to allow for the 3 mandatory slots to do with National Draft and 1 for DFA period before it. We have 33 players on primary list which only leaves room for the 3 mandatory selections in National draft.

Newnes case is different to LOB because he asked for Saints to take him off their list so he could move to Carlton as a DFA and they intended to keep him and offer him a contract but he wanted to move to Carlton.
LOB has not done that. As far as we can tell there is an agreement between the club and his manager that he remaining at Carlton but the contract they are agreeing to is only for rookie list spot. He probably wanted to remain on primary list but they are offering a rookie list spot and he must have accepted that rather than try to change clubs.
If he wanted to move clubs can only assume he would have said, I do not want a rookie list spot, you offering me and try his luck as a DFA but that has not happened.
This is from last year around the Betts & Kennedy moves to rookie list.
Mentions rule change.

"Carlton’s list announcements come after the AFL confirmed clubs would be able to move two senior players to their rookie list effective immediately.

“It is also a terrific result that we have been able to re-contract Matthew now, without having to endure the wait until the rookie draft,” Lloyd said. “Matthew was keen to stay at the club and we wanted to keep him, so to have that finalised now is a great outcome for all parties.

“We would like to acknowledge the AFL for delivering a rule this off-season that removes that unnecessary anxiety that can exist in the lead up to a draft for uncontracted players.”

Edit AFL source

 

Bletch

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This is from last year around the Betts & Kennedy moves to rookie list.
Mentions rule change.

"Carlton’s list announcements come after the AFL confirmed clubs would be able to move two senior players to their rookie list effective immediately.

“It is also a terrific result that we have been able to re-contract Matthew now, without having to endure the wait until the rookie draft,” Lloyd said. “Matthew was keen to stay at the club and we wanted to keep him, so to have that finalised now is a great outcome for all parties.

“We would like to acknowledge the AFL for delivering a rule this off-season that removes that unnecessary anxiety that can exist in the lead up to a draft for uncontracted players.”
That rule has changed again for this year. Can now only move a player from Senior to Rookie list after the ND, but before the RD.
 

footyfan1978

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This is from last year around the Betts & Kennedy moves to rookie list.
Mentions rule change.

"Carlton’s list announcements come after the AFL confirmed clubs would be able to move two senior players to their rookie list effective immediately.

“It is also a terrific result that we have been able to re-contract Matthew now, without having to endure the wait until the rookie draft,” Lloyd said. “Matthew was keen to stay at the club and we wanted to keep him, so to have that finalised now is a great outcome for all parties.

“We would like to acknowledge the AFL for delivering a rule this off-season that removes that unnecessary anxiety that can exist in the lead up to a draft for uncontracted players.”

Edit AFL source

Yeah, that was just for 2020 because of list reductions from 38 to 36 for primary list.
That was not held over for 2021 though. An article in August of this year said that temporary condition was for last year.
I posted the bit below last week sometime but probably in another thread..
The bolded bit below covers LOB as would assume the reason they already saying he going on rookie list is some contract for 2022 at rookie list conditions been agreed

"But the rule that allowed clubs to move primary-listed players to the rookie list between the first and second list lodgment periods to open up senior spots will not be permitted this off-season.

In a memo to clubs, the AFL said that there is "no forecast changes to list sizes for 2022" and that the one-off rule was brought in last season due to the changes that came late in the piece with list sizes and structures.

They will, however, be able to shift players on the senior list to the rookie list in the time between the national and rookie drafts if the player is contracted for 2022.

Meanwhile, clubs have been told they will have to again select a minimum of three players at the NAB AFL Draft after last year only needing to take one because of list reductions. The three live picks can include promoted rookies (before or after the national draft), national draft picks and pre-season draft selections."

Full article can be found on the link:
 

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