List Mgmt. Trade & Free Agency talk Pt 2

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Tigers Time

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Any chance of having a nip at Jed Anderson. As productive and committed as any big names mentioned. Rate him higher than Brad Couch for a start. Would have instant respect at the tiges (after man bun given the snip).
Roos will be desperate to re-sign him and the talk around town is he’s almost re-signed. Stranger things have happened though especially with a new coach coming in.
 

Jozzy

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I reckon Garthwaite may be on the chopping block with English sadly. Miller will probably be retained with our lack of talls on the list plus he’s been getting good wraps this year. Would actually rather retain English on the rookie list if we can, has shown some promise but we’ll have to trust the club to know what to do 😁.

Turner really is the great unknown. It really could come down to who do we keep out of Turner, Naish and Ralphsmith (plus Markov could play wing imo). It may just be Turner is the unlucky one to be out of contract.

Also fu** the incompetence of not knowing list sizes.
I’m quite worried for Garth, I have a massive soft spot for him. I acknowledge he’s not going to be a genuine KPD but he offers us the ability to have Grimes/Broad and emplacement as someone who can play as a proper third tall.

I think any other year he wouldn’t have to many concerns but with the list cuts it makes it very difficult.

I’m expecting one of Markov/Broad to go to the Suns and one of Miller/Garthwaite to stay on the list. If Markov and Broad somehow both stay and Hogan signs both Garth and Miller could be in trouble.

It’s honest outrageous we still don’t have an announcement on list sizes and the salary cap.
 

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prodigy

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I don't think anybody actually wants to see Higgins get traded, but I for one have come to terms with it as it makes sense.
The problem Higgo faces and it was apparent in the game which inevitably led to his omission, is that he doesn't suit our surge/chaos game style.
Whenever we were transitioning from the back 50, he was always one of our, for lack of a better word, outlets who was able to get himself into space. On the face of what I just said, it sounds like a positive, but when he got the ball, instead of either playing on quickly or moving the ball quickly, he held up the ball which allowed the opposition to get back in position or to feel more settled as the game pace slowed down, which is a direct contradiction to our ethos.

That's where Higgo comes unstuck as a midfielder in our team.

Regarding his ability to play as a small forward, I don't know about everyone else, but I prefer what Castagna, Rioli, Bolton and Aarts all bring to our forward mix.
Castagna is much maligned, but he works harder than everyone in that forward line and often works all the way into the backline to help out.

Higgins is too good a player to be content with being a depth player and I think our football department agrees.
So, instead of Higgins hanging around as depth and losing trade value, why not trade him while he still has value where he could potentially net us pick 15 which would result in the Premiers having two late first round picks to play with or take to the draft.
If we have to send a late second or an early third back to St. Kilda to make the trade more palletable for them, thats not a concern for us.

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Jozzy

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I don't think anybody actually wants to see Higgins get traded, but I for one have come to terms with it as it makes sense.
The problem Higgo faces and it was apparent in the game which inevitably led to his omission, is that he doesn't suit our surge/chaos game style.
Whenever we were transitioning from the back 50, he was always one of our, for lack of a better word, outlets who was able to get himself into space. On the face of what I just said, it sounds like a positive, but when he got the ball, instead of either playing on quickly or moving the ball quickly, he held up the ball which allowed the opposition to get back in position or to feel more settled as the game pace slowed down, which is a direct contradiction to our ethos.

That's where Higgo comes unstuck as a midfielder in our team.

Regarding his ability to play as a small forward, I don't know about everyone else, but I prefer what Castagna, Rioli, Bolton and Aarts all bring to our forward mix.
Castagna is much maligned, but he works harder than everyone in that forward line and often works all the way into the backline to help out.

Higgins is too good a player to be content with being a depth player and I think our football department agrees.
So, instead of Higgins hanging around as depth and losing trade value, why not trade him while he still has value where he could potentially net us pick 15 which would result in the Premiers having two late first round picks to play with or take to the draft.
If we have to send a late second or an early third back to St. Kilda to make the trade more palletable for them, thats not a concern for us.

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We have to be selfish with Higgins, he’s one of the better young talented players on our list.

If we were able to get a top fifteen draft pick for him that makes things quite different but I just cannot see it it happening or another club offering it.

A mid second round draft pick will end up being pushed back at least half a dozen picks after all of the free agency concessions and NGA/FS bids. When then have to understand that the recruiters are having to make their selections after watching next to no live football this year and none of the Victorian prospects being able to play basically any football this year. Is Higgins really worth a pick in the late 20’s/early 30’s in the most compromised draft in AFL history.

Even if there is concerns over Higgins ceiling and suitability to our game plan I’d much prefer to reassess the situation in twelve months time. Yes he would then be out of contract but he won’t be able to use free agency and we can then look for a trade if we still don’t believe it’s going to work out.
 

Cevap_Roll

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I would be upset if Higgins leaves, I think that is a mistake. He's got good talent, I'd give him a go playing as small forward, great goal sense.
Hes a good player but who does he replace?
Our current small forwards are all young as well all under 25.
Bolton, Rioli, Castagna im sorry but he doesn't replace any of those. Also we will soon have another Rioli floating around in there.
On talent alone Higgins may be better then Rioli and Castagna but thats not what we are after from our small forwards. We need speed up there.

Speed Kills

Trade while chips are still relatively high. Right now we may get late 1st early 2nd. Wait another 12 months and it will be charity pick just to get it done.

Edit: Even Aarts was pushing Higgins out of the 22. On talent Higgins is the better play but again Aarts has speed.
 

prodigy

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We have to be selfish with Higgins, he’s one of the better young talented players on our list.

If we were able to get a top fifteen draft pick for him that makes things quite different but I just cannot see it it happening or another club offering it.

A mid second round draft pick will end up being pushed back at least half a dozen picks after all of the free agency concessions and NGA/FS bids. When then have to understand that the recruiters are having to make their selections after watching next to no live football this year and none of the Victorian prospects being able to play basically any football this year. Is Higgins really worth a pick in the late 20’s/early 30’s in the most compromised draft in AFL history.

Even if there is concerns over Higgins ceiling and suitability to our game plan I’d much prefer to reassess the situation in twelve months time. Yes he would then be out of contract but he won’t be able to use free agency and we can then look for a trade if we still don’t believe it’s going to work out.
Like you said though, he is currently contracted. So, we have leverage.
I'm trying to be as unbiased as possible here, but if we put to St Kilda, a side who is legitimately contending for Flags soon, the following:
Richmond gives: Higgins and Pick 32
St Kilda gives: Pick 15

If I'm St Kilda, I want players who make an immediate impact, not someone who will only make a meaningful impact in two years or so.
We would prefer the kid at pick 15, as it moulds well with our sustained success model.

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Jozzy

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Hes a good player but who does he replace?
Our current small forwards are all young as well all under 25.
Bolton, Rioli, Castagna im sorry but he doesn't replace any of those. Also we will soon have another Rioli floating around in there.
On talent alone Higgins may be better then Rioli and Castagna but thats not what we are after from our small forwards. We need speed up there.

Speed Kills

Trade while chips are still relatively high. Right now we may get late 1st early 2nd. Wait another 12 months and it will be charity pick just to get it done.

Edit: Even Aarts was pushing Higgins out of the 22. On talent Higgins is the better play but again Aarts has speed.
On paper we could potentially end up with a later draft pick if we decided to hold off for twelve months and it doesn’t work out.

However is that really that much of a risk? Hypothetically we could secure a second round pick this year, if we waited twelve months let’s just say that becomes a third round pick. With the lack of junior football that’s been played this year for our recruiters to watch and how compromised the draft is, I question whether the gap between a 2020 second round pick and a 2021 third round pick can be compared to the standard that things usually are.
 

Cevap_Roll

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On paper we could potentially end up with a later draft pick if we decided to hold off for twelve months and it doesn’t work out.

However is that really that much of a risk? Hypothetically we could secure a second round pick this year, if we waited twelve months let’s just say that becomes a third round pick. With the lack of junior football that’s been played this year for our recruiters to watch and how compromised the draft is, I question whether the gap between a 2020 second round pick and a 2021 third round pick can be compared to the standard that things usually are.
The club does have a points system for this very thing so no doubt they will work out how many points Higgins is worth and how many points a drafted kid they may want is worth and weather that player is likely to be around at that pick.

The club would already have a keen eye on who they want to draft and if they have a realistic shot a drafting them with the picks we have or may get.
 

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Tiger_4_Life

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Aarts has shown he can be a hard nut at times and can kick a goal. I should remind everyone that he has only ever done this in low pressure games..mostly when the game is over too. He wasn't good enough to play late in the finals series and rightfully so. Aarts is also 25.

Higgins is the complete opposite. Higgins is 21!
Not only did he produce one of the best debut seasons, but he did this at critcal times during games and has an incredible footy IQ for his age...He has WAY MORE X Factor, way more talent considering some had him extremely early in the first round and his football character is exactly what we need around the club. He was so happy coming to Richmond and he works harder than almost anyone else at the same age. Higgins won the Morrish medal and has broken records on champion data too.
Unfortunately his health played a factor and is coming off serious brain surgery. It was a miracle he played this year and was certainly good enough to line up in round 1. In the first few rounds he was close to one of our best players..once again this is absolutely incredible for us and Jack especially what he went through and also given his age. He is a midfielder who has played forward for us. He knows where the goals are, he has incredibly quick hands and actually suits our game style perfectly.

You don't win every trade, but I've never been more certain that this could potentially be the worst trade we ever do/consider of recent times.

For those that have short memories, take a look at this and let me remind you it was his FIRST year at 18/19 years of age:




this was his SECOND year...interrupted with a major health scare:



How Aarts is favoured over him? is beyond belief. Aarts was extremely lucky to play games later in the season. next year Higgins will be 22.
Hard to argue with this.
 

Jozzy

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The club does have a points system for this very thing so no doubt they will work out how many points Higgins is worth and how many points a drafted kid they may want is worth and weather that player is likely to be around at that pick.

The club would already have a keen eye on who they want to draft and if they have a realistic shot a drafting them with the picks we have or may get.
I’d certainly agree with you on that one, really we have to put our faith in the club and the recruiters. They certainly deserve that faith an respect.

I’m still keeping the faith in Higgins too though, I’m very interested to see how it plays out but I really hopeful he stays!
 

Mr Magic

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We have to be selfish with Higgins, he’s one of the better young talented players on our list.

If we were able to get a top fifteen draft pick for him that makes things quite different but I just cannot see it it happening or another club offering it.

A mid second round draft pick will end up being pushed back at least half a dozen picks after all of the free agency concessions and NGA/FS bids. When then have to understand that the recruiters are having to make their selections after watching next to no live football this year and none of the Victorian prospects being able to play basically any football this year. Is Higgins really worth a pick in the late 20’s/early 30’s in the most compromised draft in AFL history.

Even if there is concerns over Higgins ceiling and suitability to our game plan I’d much prefer to reassess the situation in twelve months time. Yes he would then be out of contract but he won’t be able to use free agency and we can then look for a trade if we still don’t believe it’s going to work out.
Next year the draft will probably be deeper, might know more about it to. The landscape will be clearer and more movement to . Seismic changes occurring at Gold Coast, GWS and Collingwood not to mention other clubs like Freo and the likes of Essendon and Saints looking to rise more. We will have a better idea how our list is going with age in 12 months to and whether some of our players look to other things like Rance. How our additions have gone and whether our style needs to evolve.

Probably need to capitalise on our set-up generally in the next 12 months and see what happens after that when list sizes and caps are better known
 
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guruisatiger

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Aarts has shown he can be a hard nut at times and can kick a goal. I should remind everyone that he has only ever done this in low pressure games..mostly when the game is over too. He wasn't good enough to play late in the finals series and rightfully so. Aarts is also 25.

Higgins is the complete opposite. Higgins is 21!
Not only did he produce one of the best debut seasons, but he did this at critcal times during games and has an incredible footy IQ for his age...He has WAY MORE X Factor, way more talent considering some had him extremely early in the first round and his football character is exactly what we need around the club. He was so happy coming to Richmond and he works harder than almost anyone else at the same age. Higgins won the Morrish medal and has broken records on champion data too.
Unfortunately his health played a factor and is coming off serious brain surgery. It was a miracle he played this year and was certainly good enough to line up in round 1. In the first few rounds he was close to one of our best players..once again this is absolutely incredible for us and Jack especially what he went through and also given his age. He is a midfielder who has played forward for us. He knows where the goals are, he has incredibly quick hands and actually suits our game style perfectly.

You don't win every trade, but I've never been more certain that this could potentially be the worst trade we ever do/consider of recent times.

For those that have short memories, take a look at this and let me remind you it was his FIRST year at 18/19 years of age:




this was his SECOND year...interrupted with a major health scare:



How Aarts is favoured over him? is beyond belief. Aarts was extremely lucky to play games later in the season. next year Higgins will be 22.
it sounds to me like the club might be telling jack that if a suitable trade arrives then we may consider it if its in our favour
and jack is happy to go elsewhere.... we have such amazing depth in small fwds and onballers... it might just be beneficial for jack to have a serious look at another club,,, personly i hope he stays ,, i love what he brings on and off the field,,,, ill back the club in what ever decision it makes
 

Marcel Proust

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Hard to argue with this.
Aarts is ahead of higgo Currently

New Rioli will be a richmond player sooner rather than later.

Stack has more talent

Dow Ross rcd are challenging higgo in the midfield rankings

If the old guys keep playing the will want to rest fwd more

The current small forwards are some of the youngest in the team; rioli George Bolton even Graham plays hff

Both sides of the argument make good points IMO
 

Jozzy

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Next year the draft will probably be deeper, might know more about it to. The landscape will be clearer and more movement to . Seismic changes occurring at Gold Coast, GWS and Collingwood not to mention other clubs like Freo and the likes of Essendon and Saints looking to rise more. We will have a better idea how our list is going with age in 12 months to and whether some of our players look to other things like Rance. How our additions have gone and whether our style needs to evolve
That’s all very true mate, further reasons as to why holding off a potential twelve months really isn’t going to carry the same risks of normal seasons.

Higgins is still only 21 years old and has already has done some incredibly promising things. I don’t want to see him go for some odd draft pick in the 20/30’s in such a compromised draft.

Especially after we used a top 20 draft pick on him and he’d still easily be in the top 15/20 players from his draft.
 

Dr Awkward

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Hes a good player but who does he replace?
Our current small forwards are all young as well all under 25.
Bolton, Rioli, Castagna im sorry but he doesn't replace any of those. Also we will soon have another Rioli floating around in there.
On talent alone Higgins may be better then Rioli and Castagna but thats not what we are after from our small forwards. We need speed up there.

Speed Kills

Trade while chips are still relatively high. Right now we may get late 1st early 2nd. Wait another 12 months and it will be charity pick just to get it done.

Edit: Even Aarts was pushing Higgins out of the 22. On talent Higgins is the better play but again Aarts has speed.
All valid points, just saying that I think Higgins has a higher ceiling than George, Rioli or Aarts. Similar to Butler. Maybe Butler didn't fit as well into our system and you can't argue now with any moves we have made but also at the time I felt we let the wrong one go.
 

Mr Magic

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Aarts is ahead of higgo Currently

New Rioli will be a richmond player sooner rather than later.

Stack has more talent

Dow Ross rcd are challenging higgo in the midfield rankings

If the old guys keep playing the will want to rest fwd more

The current small forwards are some of the youngest in the team; rioli George Bolton even Graham plays hff

Both sides of the argument make good points IMO

The counter argument is Arts is older and may not keep peak for longer with smaller ceiling.

Stack may be more of a back or at least a back/forward so playing different role.
Ross and RCD play different roles. Even Dow arguably is not a mid/forward like Higgins so different role.

The older guys may not be good enough to rest forward. Not everyone is Dusty.

If he decides to go in 12 months we will be more informed and may get better players/picks back for him.


He is coming off his operation a little bit, could kick on next year

The other thing is young Rioli is coming from a fair way back, he might not kick on like the others, hope he does but you never know
 
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Marcel Proust

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The counter argument is Arts is older and may not keep peak for longer with smaller ceiling.

Tack may be more of a back or at least a back/forward so playing different role.
Ross and RCD play different roles. Even Dow arguably is not a mid/forward like Higgins so different role.

The older guys may not be good enough to rest forward. Not everyone is Dusty
Aarts was not that far behind butler this season statically at least. Which is pretty good for a non best22 player.

He isn't that old and it's not of great importance for a back up type player?

The club potentially also may want to save salary cap space to reinvent somewhere else.
 

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