List Mgmt. Trade & Free Agency talk Pt 5

[Tiger08]

Has he ever averaged 2 goals a week in the vfl?

Maybe not but they play him wing and even half back. He is basically a medium size forward and a pretty good one.. just not in our system if Lynch and Jack are there because he doesnt pressure enough.

 

[Barnard]

I read we are still pretty interested in Schenslog now which is interesting because Parker played with him at South Freo.

Which leads to a question;

Blake was a category B rookie at The Spats.
How many times can a player be Categorised a Category B rookie ? Can he go to another club classed as a Category B rookie again…?


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He was a member of the cats NGA so would no longer qualify I wouldn’t have thought. Has anybody actually seen him play? The draft guru Knightmare has certainly pumped him up but I have seen others that don’t get what all the fuss is about. I watched one game South Freo played and would have to check the stats to see if he even played. If he did he certainly didn’t stand out.

 

[Noidnadroj]

No i dont, im saying we need a back up Key position forward - if he can also be a back up ruckman (exactly like Chol or CCJ was), that is ideal.

I am not sure how many times i can write the same sh*t tbh. Going into the season with 2 KP forwards that are 34 and 30 is risky as sh*t. The solution of using your #1 Kep position defender to be your first back up forward is idiotic. If the club has learned anything from 2021, they will know that this can end your season overnight.

I said the same thing last year regarding our ruck situation and the same naive posters said the same naive crap, saying blokes who have played 1 game or less will "save us". Well, they didn't. We got continually murdered out of the middle in clearances and our defence was as porous as unsealed porcelian. We literally just saw the result of taking this sort of completely unnecessary risk, just recruit a mature age back up - exactly like Melbourne did with Ben Brown. Exactly like the Dogs did with Stefan Martin. Exactly like Geelong jsut did the Ceglar. You cannot expect players who have not played 50 games as a KP Forward or ruck to make any impact in a finals run. If it does happen, its very rare and lucky, we struck gold with Soldo in 2019 - expecting it to happen again with Samson Ryan or Mate Colina is negligent.

If Lynch and/or Riewoldt go down injured - & Balta is having a absolute ripping season & in AA contention at FB - who is our back up? Would you seriously move the cornerstone of our backline to save our forward stocks?? If you say Samson Ryan, please approach the nearest exit, and proceed to get a cab to Nowhere Rd. Because that will be exactly where our chances lie. We are relying on dumb luck & one thing we should know by now, we aint that lucky. I would honestly rather we rookie Levi Casboult than rely on Samson Ryan, & I am no fan of Levi at all. But, the guy can hold a mark & if he had to, he can bring it to ground for the smalls.

But you’re not providing any solutions. Of course I’d love a half decent quality forward in the VFL ready to step in if injuries hit … but guess what, they don’t exist! Casboult has been that ‘back-up’ key forward to McKay, McGovern and Curnow for 4-years …. and with Curnow and McGovern out he STILL was playing VFL … for the putrid Blues who haven’t made finals for 8-years. But you think he’d be a handy back-up for us…?? Mason Cox is one of the Pies only key forwards with any size …. Yet he was so bad they chose to move Moore up forward. These are the sort of back-ups you are advocating we pick-up - blokes who can’t even get a game in bottom teams who desperately need key forwards.

Not a single piece of evidence I’ve seen can convince me a player who is willing to accept playing in the VFL is worth us picking up. Ceglar is going to be Geelong’s number 1 ruck. Stef Martin was the Dogs number 1 ruck. There’s no-one of half decent quality going to come to Richmond to play as a 3rd string ruck…. why do you think both Chol and CJ have left ….?!?!

If we could have got Ceglar to come as a 3rd stringer and pay him $200k then great, I’m all for it. Was never going to happen. Even Xerri wanted out of North because he was 3rd string behind a 33yo Goldy and an 8-gamer. Lynch left the Pies as he was behind Grundy and Cameron. Fort left Geelong as he was behind Ceglar and Stanley and only had McInerney in front of him at Brisbane …. you catching on to any form of pattern here..??

The Saints had a couple of these patch job senior back-up rucks in the last 24-months in Hunter and McKernan …. both pickups absolutely laughable when they played.

So it’s well and good to say we should have replacements ready for ruck/fwd if we get injuries … we did, and they both left for more senior opportunities. Why do you think there are more like them ready to fall out of the trees to come to Richmond, where with Soldo returning there’ll be Even LESS opportunity than there was in 2021..???

So like you I do like the theory … but the reality of what’s realistically available who is decent enough that we’d want on our list (ie NOT casboult) and who’d be willing to play VFL at Richmond is pretty thin on the ground.



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[Noidnadroj]

You do realise that Dusty being useful as a FF is all dependant on spacing.

If you have no Lynch or/and Jack - where exactly do you think this space will come from? Without the towers, he will be double teamed endlessly

The same place it came from in 2017 when Jack was the sole KPF and Dusty kicked 37 goals ….


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[Karp3_dm]

Except he only scored about 20 goals in 2017.

He kicked 46 in 2018.

Too many successful years I get them confused..

 

[Phar Ace]

The only way we get pick 3 is trading 7 and a 2022 pick, e.g. our first with their second coming back.

It would only happen on the night and only if they were sure their man would be there at 7. I'd only do it for Callaghan.

Same - rate him very highly - in some years he could have been a number 1 pick

 

[This Is Anfield]

But you’re not providing any solutions. Of course I’d love a half decent quality forward in the VFL ready to step in if injuries hit … but guess what, they don’t exist! Casboult has been that ‘back-up’ key forward to McKay, McGovern and Curnow for 4-years …. and with Curnow and McGovern out he STILL was playing VFL … for the putrid Blues who haven’t made finals for 8-years. But you think he’d be a handy back-up for us…?? Mason Cox is one of the Pies only key forwards with any size …. Yet he was so bad they chose to move Moore up forward. These are the sort of back-ups you are advocating we pick-up - blokes who can’t even get a game in bottom teams who desperately need key forwards.

Not a single piece of evidence I’ve seen can convince me a player who is willing to accept playing in the VFL is worth us picking up. Ceglar is going to be Geelong’s number 1 ruck. Stef Martin was the Dogs number 1 ruck. There’s no-one of half decent quality going to come to Richmond to play as a 3rd string ruck…. why do you think both Chol and CJ have left ….?!?!

If we could have got Ceglar to come as a 3rd stringer and pay him $200k then great, I’m all for it. Was never going to happen. Even Xerri wanted out of North because he was 3rd string behind a 33yo Goldy and an 8-gamer. Lynch left the Pies as he was behind Grundy and Cameron. Fort left Geelong as he was behind Ceglar and Stanley and only had McInerney in front of him at Brisbane …. you catching on to any form of pattern here..??

The Saints had a couple of these patch job senior back-up rucks in the last 24-months in Hunter and McKernan …. both pickups absolutely laughable when they played.

So it’s well and good to say we should have replacements ready for ruck/fwd if we get injuries … we did, and they both left for more senior opportunities. Why do you think there are more like them ready to fall out of the trees to come to Richmond, where with Soldo returning there’ll be Even LESS opportunity than there was in 2021..???

So like you I do like the theory … but the reality of what’s realistically available who is decent enough that we’d want on our list (ie NOT casboult) and who’d be willing to play VFL at Richmond is pretty thin on the ground.



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“Drop the mike”

 

[Bojangles17]

I'm old school. Get him out. Tigers only.

It’s still hols no sweat

 

[Sir_Loin]

What similarities do you see with Dimma and Pete Carroll?

focus on the person at the level not the player

 

[YeOldTiger]

Too many successful years I get them confused..

Yeh it's the 'many successful years' getting you confused. Hahahaha

 

[Marcel Proust]

I'm old school. Get him out. Tigers only.

Agreed, wtf

 

[Noidnadroj]

ffs, now you want to take our #1 ruckman to play as a mediocre forward. Why pay a guy $500k because he is a top 5 ruckman, to just play him in a position where he would struggle to be in the top 50 in that position?

Or, you pay Levi, Brander or someone else >$100k a year to be a "worst case=" scenario back up. At least Levi has 150 games of experience in that position - & unfortunately even he is no longer available as the Suns just signed him up

I am done explaining the stupidity of relying on your #1 backman or Ruckman to also be your first choice back up Key Forward. You are rooting your entire structure, just to not recruit someone who is perfectly suited in that position in case 1 of your 2 options in that position go down.

How quickly people have forgotten the failures of this season is startling. Goldfish swimming around a bowl stuff...

But this season we had CJ and had Chol as decent quality back-up fwd-rucks and failed badly. And you’re suggesting bringing in players like Casboult and Brander …. who are WORSE than CJ and Chol…. to be the solution to the problem if we get a heap of injuries…what you are saying doesn’t make any sense.


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[Karp3_dm]

Yeh it's the 'many successful years' getting you confused. Hahahaha

I haven’t had a smoke for 3 weeks thank you very much

its all raw liver, eggs, seafood and kefir now
Beast mode activated!

 

[Muddiemoose]

But you’re not providing any solutions. Of course I’d love a half decent quality forward in the VFL ready to step in if injuries hit … but guess what, they don’t exist! Casboult has been that ‘back-up’ key forward to McKay, McGovern and Curnow for 4-years …. and with Curnow and McGovern out he STILL was playing VFL … for the putrid Blues who haven’t made finals for 8-years. But you think he’d be a handy back-up for us…?? Mason Cox is one of the Pies only key forwards with any size …. Yet he was so bad they chose to move Moore up forward. These are the sort of back-ups you are advocating we pick-up - blokes who can’t even get a game in bottom teams who desperately need key forwards.

Not a single piece of evidence I’ve seen can convince me a player who is willing to accept playing in the VFL is worth us picking up. Ceglar is going to be Geelong’s number 1 ruck. Stef Martin was the Dogs number 1 ruck. There’s no-one of half decent quality going to come to Richmond to play as a 3rd string ruck…. why do you think both Chol and CJ have left ….?!?!

If we could have got Ceglar to come as a 3rd stringer and pay him $200k then great, I’m all for it. Was never going to happen. Even Xerri wanted out of North because he was 3rd string behind a 33yo Goldy and an 8-gamer. Lynch left the Pies as he was behind Grundy and Cameron. Fort left Geelong as he was behind Ceglar and Stanley and only had McInerney in front of him at Brisbane …. you catching on to any form of pattern here..??

The Saints had a couple of these patch job senior back-up rucks in the last 24-months in Hunter and McKernan …. both pickups absolutely laughable when they played.

So it’s well and good to say we should have replacements ready for ruck/fwd if we get injuries … we did, and they both left for more senior opportunities. Why do you think there are more like them ready to fall out of the trees to come to Richmond, where with Soldo returning there’ll be Even LESS opportunity than there was in 2021..???

So like you I do like the theory … but the reality of what’s realistically available who is decent enough that we’d want on our list (ie NOT casboult) and who’d be willing to play VFL at Richmond is pretty thin on the ground.



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If only we picked up a mature state league ruck last trade period
People get so excited about looking outwards when we have solutions already

“
DRAFT ANALYSIS: “Ryan is a developing over-age ruckman who who dominates the hit-outs with his height and has plenty of potential.” – Michael Alvaro

Brisbane Lions Academy graduate, Samson Ryan earned a late call-up to the Queensland Draft Combine in 2020, fresh off a promising season as Sherwood’s primary ruck in the QAFL Seniors competition. The former Allies representative will turn 20-years-old on draft day (December 9), technically making him a mature-age prospect under the current format. He is well known to recruiters though, having come through the Lions’ program and run out for Queensland at Under 17 level before going on to enjoy a stint in the Allies side. Ryan even came back as a 19-year-old in 2019 for the Lions, continuing his rate of development in the Academy Series to be thereabouts among the draft conversation. Having missed out, he has continued to hone his craft and remains a potential project player with plenty of upside as a mobile, 206cm key position prospect – now available in the open draft.”

 

[guruisatiger]

oh i could tell you stories...but yeah. glad he's at punt road now.

i know some of them my nephew was in his year at school lol

 

[THE THIN MAN]

What’s the reason though? Is there something in particular about his attributes that you’re don’t like?

Why would West Coast drop a player who see himself as a 2nd or 3rd tall in either Def/Fwd when they have player retirements (Josh Kennedy / Shannon Hurn) in 2023?

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[Growapair]

There have been 447 players taken between pick 51-70, less than 50% of them have managed to play 50 games and 23% of them have never played a game(includes players taken last couple of years). You have a 15% chance of finding a 100 gamer and a 5% chance of finding a 200 gamer. On average you get an All Australian calibre player once every 30 picks and it takes you 4 picks to nail 1 50 gamer.

Since the 2009 draft we've nailed Astbury & Graham in the 3rd round, but then there are players like Markov(23 games in 5 seasons) Drummond(5 games) Gordon (21 games) Arnot(9 games) Helbig (16 games) MacDonald(0 games) & Dea (31 games) taken in the 3rd round since. Too early to pass judgement on Ralphsmith Nyoun & MRJ.

There have been 259 players taken between 21-30(where we now have 3 picks), 7% have never played a game(includes kids taken last couple of years). There is a 32% chance of landing a 100 gamer and a 10% chance of landing a 200 gamer. On average you get an All Australian player every 7 picks and it takes 2 picks to 2 picks to nail a 50 gamer.

So by giving up that future 3rd round pick we've now got the ability to pick up yet another 2nd round kid. Since 2009 we've had Griffiths(63 games) Batchelor(84 games) KMac (125 games) McBean(5 games) McDonough(10 games) Menadue(39 games) Bolton(67 games) Balta(44 games).

Now I don't know about you but I'd much rather have an extra crack to add the next KMac Bolton or Balta than the next Drummond Arnot or MacDonald.

Great effort to put together this analysis. Great trade if you nail the pick. Always is

 

[_RT_]

But you’re not providing any solutions. Of course I’d love a half decent quality forward in the VFL ready to step in if injuries hit … but guess what, they don’t exist! Casboult has been that ‘back-up’ key forward to McKay, McGovern and Curnow for 4-years …. and with Curnow and McGovern out he STILL was playing VFL … for the putrid Blues who haven’t made finals for 8-years. But you think he’d be a handy back-up for us…?? Mason Cox is one of the Pies only key forwards with any size …. Yet he was so bad they chose to move Moore up forward. These are the sort of back-ups you are advocating we pick-up - blokes who can’t even get a game in bottom teams who desperately need key forwards.

Not a single piece of evidence I’ve seen can convince me a player who is willing to accept playing in the VFL is worth us picking up. Ceglar is going to be Geelong’s number 1 ruck. Stef Martin was the Dogs number 1 ruck. There’s no-one of half decent quality going to come to Richmond to play as a 3rd string ruck…. why do you think both Chol and CJ have left ….?!?!

If we could have got Ceglar to come as a 3rd stringer and pay him $200k then great, I’m all for it. Was never going to happen. Even Xerri wanted out of North because he was 3rd string behind a 33yo Goldy and an 8-gamer. Lynch left the Pies as he was behind Grundy and Cameron. Fort left Geelong as he was behind Ceglar and Stanley and only had McInerney in front of him at Brisbane …. you catching on to any form of pattern here..??

The Saints had a couple of these patch job senior back-up rucks in the last 24-months in Hunter and McKernan …. both pickups absolutely laughable when they played.

So it’s well and good to say we should have replacements ready for ruck/fwd if we get injuries … we did, and they both left for more senior opportunities. Why do you think there are more like them ready to fall out of the trees to come to Richmond, where with Soldo returning there’ll be Even LESS opportunity than there was in 2021..???

So like you I do like the theory … but the reality of what’s realistically available who is decent enough that we’d want on our list (ie NOT casboult) and who’d be willing to play VFL at Richmond is pretty thin on the ground.



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Nailed it

 

[Tiger_Of_Old]

So like you I do like the theory … but the reality of what’s realistically available who is decent enough that we’d want on our list (ie NOT casboult) and who’d be willing to play VFL at Richmond is pretty thin on the ground.



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I'd do it for peanuts. Infact I'll pay the club 75k.lol
Make the emergency list in our Grand Final side next year.

 

[Lsta062]

Why would West Coast drop a player who see himself as a 2nd or 3rd tall in either Def/Fwd when they have player retirements (Josh Kennedy / Shannon Hurn) in 2023?
View attachment 1263987

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I don’t think West Coast value Brander’s work in defence by the looks of it. So I don’t think they’d replace him with Hurn.

In the forward line though, they still have Oscar Allen, Waterman, and Darling ahead of him for a while. For next year, Josh Kennedy is also included. If West Coast is looking to play less talls in the future (maybe they’re looking at 2 talls), then Brander just doesn’t have a place in their A side for years. No point in keeping him on if the position he plays best in is occupied by 3 others ahead of him.

I don’t mind if people disagree with my view on it, but I think the circumstances surrounding his delisting means that he may not actually be a bad pick-up for whoever has (or will have) a spot free to play him as a second or third tall forward. For us, we will have a spot free after Riewoldt retires, so I wouldn’t mind it because it means we can properly develop KPFs we pick up in the draft through our VFL program and play them when they are ready.

 

[Dr Tigris]

Just had a quick look at the 26 and under thread on the MB. We reckon we've got issues. Damn some teams don't have a KP under 27. Geelong doesn't even have 22 under 27 players (before draft).

It's always good to get some context. We are in a solid spot given that we've been on top for so long.

But some teams look like they have major issues coming up with holes in their lists.


And Melbourne had 5 guy over 26 in their premiership team - very good players. But their squad is fairly youngish.

 

[tora tora tora]

I don’t think West Coast value Brander’s work in defence by the looks of it. So I don’t think they’d replace him with Hurn.

In the forward line though, they still have Oscar Allen, Waterman, and Darling ahead of him for a while. For next year, Josh Kennedy is also included. If West Coast is looking to play less talls in the future (maybe they’re looking at 2 talls), then Brander just doesn’t have a place in their A side for years. No point in keeping him on if the position he plays best in is occupied by 3 others ahead of him.

I don’t mind if people disagree with my view on it, but I think the circumstances surrounding his delisting means that he may not actually be a bad pick-up for whoever has (or will have) a spot free to play him as a second or third tall forward. For us, we will have a spot free after Riewoldt retires, so I wouldn’t mind it because it means we can properly develop KPFs we pick up in the draft through our VFL program and play them when they are ready.

It's usually Lynch injured. At such times I'd go JR and caddy and a medium tall RCD, etc. Or draft a ready to play KPF. Or play Ryan, who is way more capable than his debut. Or throw Balta up there. And cover him with Miller. Or Nank..
Id rather really maximize every pick we have this year. Draft JVR and play him if the wheels have fallen off.
If we have another crappy year. Then retire off JR and see how JVR is going.

 

[Tetley Tigers]

Just had a quick look at the 26 and under thread on the MB. We reckon we've got issues. Damn some teams don't have a KP under 27. Geelong doesn't even have 22 under 27 players (before draft).

It's always good to get some context. We are in a solid spot given that we've been on top for so long.

But some teams look like they have major issues coming up with holes in their lists.


And Melbourne had 5 guy over 26 in their premiership team - very good players. But their squad is fairly youngish.

St Kilda. Yikes.


Tetley Tiger

 

[RJKTiger]

I want us to pick Jarrod Brander up, but is it really true that he’s only kicked 5 goals in his career?

He is a tall forward from what I know of his draft year, so surely there is something wrong with the position West Coast has been playing him. I know he’s been played in defence as well from memory.

If he spent a considerable time forward and only managed 5 goals, then he’s obviously not worth picking up because 5 goals across 22 games since 2018… CCJ almost kicked that in his second game.

EDIT: They’ve played him on a wing this year. He was behind Josh Kennedy, Jack Darling, Oscar Allen, and Jake Waterman. Makes more sense. He could easily play 2nd/3rd tall in our forward line down the track and can be a filler at worst when Riewoldt retires while we wait for young KPFs to be ready. I think he is worth picking up.

The Eagles board seemed genuinely disappointed that he left. There does seem to be a "lack of courage" tag on him tho which is always a concern.

 

[RJKTiger]

Bringing back Todd Elton makes just as much sense, it's still a shitty idea!

Except he isn't.

I know you felt cool saying that, but the reality is bringing in Todd Elton does not make "as much sense"