List Mgmt. Trade & Free Agency talk Pt 5

[_RT_]

Still wasn't a marking forward though. Average 3 marks a game in 2018, with less than 1 contested mark a game.

See what i am saying here? This guy is no back up for Tom Lynch & Jack Riewoldt - the fact people can only conjure up his name as some type of retort just underlines how dire our situation is there.

If we are seriously going for a flag next season, we need to seriously get a back up. For as bad as Levi Casboult is - he was probably the best out there for a serious KPF.

I know this will make a few vomit (including me) - but if the Pies bite the bullet & delist Mason Cox, I think the club would seriously have a look at him. Maybe that is why we gave them a bit of an overs in the pick trade .

I know the names being bought up are not sexy - I would have kept Chol over all these blokes anyday - but unfortunately we blew our chance to lock him up cheap by keeping him marooned on the rookie list a year too long. If we are legit, 100% going for a flag next year - we need to be armed and have all weak spots covered. We didn't do that in 2021 & when Toby went down, we struggled to compete in the middle. We now run that same risk if Lynch goes down.

Before we crap on Mason due to his giant spudness - look at your stats & tell me he will not give you nearly the EXACT same output than CCJ did this year. For all the hecking he cops, he is a proven Finals player - he stood up bigtime in 2018 Prelim & GF Their 2021 stats are almost a dead replica.

All going well, we play him in the VFL for 20 games and never need to use him - but if Lynch goes down & Soldo struggles to regain his past form - we will need him, or someone else - otherwise we are screwed. Samson Ryan is not ready for that roleView attachment 1265319



I hate Mason as much as anyone, but i wouldn't cut off my hand to spite my Cox

A stop gap KPF is a waste of space. As I said the other day, if things go pear shaped and we need to turn to the likes of Ryan or Miller or a draftee or need to use Nankervis or Soldo as a KPF we're going to get more out of that, than turning to failed options from other teams.

Firstly if that happens then it's likely that we're not going to be a finals contender, so why shoot ourselves in the foot from a draft point of view by having a stop gap option helping us win a couple of extra games. Secondly by using the likes of Ryan or Miller or a draftee were getting development into them, which serves us better for the long term future than a stop gap spud will offer.

If the opposite happens and it all goes well, then the likes of Ryan and the draftee/s will get to be around a team that is contending which also helps their development because on the likelihood that they are called upon they are going to be playing in games where we're contending and that will help with their development again.

Stop gaps very rarely work, and to get them to even commit you need to offer up a multi year deal which means we're effectively stuck with them for 2 seasons. As it stands we have 7 open spots, with the plan being to take 5 kids in the draft, upgrade a couple of rookies and then redraft Nyoun and Cumberland, if we were to take a stop gap option, then it means we either don't take the 5 picks in the draft or we don't redraft one of Nyoun or Cumberland, who are both likely to only get 1 year rookie deals initially which means if they don't work out we can move on from them this time next year, rather than being tied to them for another 12 months.

 

[Rioli2Rioli]

Pity nobody told the Norf fans

3 of the already knew that it was the other 19 that never got the message as they still cant read

 

[Rioli2Rioli]

I'm curious to people's opinions -

Hypothetically, in a dream world, would you rather Picks 1 & 5 OR Picks 7, 15, 26, 27 & 28?

One gives you two potential stars while the other, 1 or 2 A+Graders plus 3 A/B talents?

In a normal year you are correct but with no Victorian junior football last 2 years pick #29 could well become a better player than pick #5 in 3 years time

 

[Rioli2Rioli]

1 & 5!

We have plenty of a good young players who can carve out good afl careers, Short, Rioli, Balta, Bolton, Baker, Soldo, Graham and Mansell. We also have a few more less proven but I think could be solid players in a good team, RCD, Ross, Martyn, Ralphsmith, Stack, Dow, Ryan and Miller.

But in the group only Bolton looks like a consistent match winner, and only Balta, RCD and Stack have the ability to reach that elite level of player and it’s only potential.

We need star power (and forwards) but that’s usually found at the pointy end of the draft, and they are the guys who win finals.

Put a young Cotchin and Petracca (Dusty is another level of player so getting him again is wishful thinking) in our current core lifts everybody’s game because they move down the pecking order and exploit better match ups.

SPS / DOW or Shai Bolton / Jack Graham

 

[SunshineBoy]

Casboult is no worse then Chol as a footballer, just worse as in he's much older. With the amount of marks that our forwards can't seem to grab, I reckon big Levi would clunk a fair few. Whether he kicks them or not is another story.

Chol is one of the best kicks in the com petition, I would rather have George or Richo kicking for goal than casboult, who ever suggested him needs a face plant

 

[GhostofJimJess]

Our hand is better as you can build the team with players who won't all demand top dollars but are good enough to beat anyone playing as a cohesive unit. Then you can ultimately grab free agents that are A graders or trade for them later if need be. Ultimately after our last dance I see 2-3 years near the bottom harvesting top 5 picks regardless so a larger hand now makes more sense. Better to have a team like Richmond than a STK of 2004-2011 of an elite top end with a grand canyon drop off which gets found out in big finals. Your bottom 5 really gets exposed in big games so better to have the strong core first. You only need 6-7 elite players (Cotchin, Rance/Lynch, Riewoldt, Martin, Edwards, Grimes, Prestia) to win premierships if your whole team is solid outside of that. Rance and Lynch never really played together so 6-7 stands. All our others players have played a damn good role but were ultimately C+ to B+.

That is the exact example I was going to use to make the same point as yourself.

 

[Bojangles17]

Chol is one of the best kicks in the com petition, I would rather have George or Richo kicking for goal than casboult, who ever suggested him needs a face plant

Put me down cholly has best left foot kick I’ve seen , poetry

 

[Football Tragic]

I'm actually not certain myself what I prefer - Two picks in the top 5 or 5 picks in the top 30. I'd love more players the caliber of Cotch and Prestia but we could get a Tambling, Caddy or Conca just as easily. The chances are better at recruiting a star with these picks, no doubt but its not a given.

I think I've just talked myself around to going with 5 picks in 30, especially in a draft where there is so many unknown gems and hidden talent. We are unliley to be in this position anytime soon so I like it that we are making hay while the sun shines. Our draft picks will be far lower down the order after winning another flag so 5 quality players to build a future core, is a luxury that no team coming off 3 flags in 4 years should by all rights, should get.

 

[GhostofJimJess]

Have a look at Knightmare's phantom and I dare you to tell me you wouldn't want 5 picks inside 30 in this draft.

ESPN's Early Phantom Draft

 

[Maurice Mitchell]

Put me down cholly has best left foot kick I’ve seen , poetry

As I’ve said before: with ball in hand he’s one of the best in the comp. 20 possessions per week and using his physical attributes he’d be a star.

 

[wegetpumped]

Have a look at Knightmare's phantom and I dare you to tell me you wouldn't want 5 picks inside 30 in this draft.

ESPN's Early Phantom Draft

All I see is another Butler coming Things will probably change by draft night as all the swaps are still to be played out. The First 3 are done the rest it's waiting and see.

 

[captain blood 17]

Still wasn't a marking forward though. Average 3 marks a game in 2018, with less than 1 contested mark a game.

See what i am saying here? This guy is no back up for Tom Lynch & Jack Riewoldt - the fact people can only conjure up his name as some type of retort just underlines how dire our situation is there.

If we are seriously going for a flag next season, we need to seriously get a back up. For as bad as Levi Casboult is - he was probably the best out there for a serious KPF.

I know this will make a few vomit (including me) - but if the Pies bite the bullet & delist Mason Cox, I think the club would seriously have a look at him. Maybe that is why we gave them a bit of an overs in the pick trade .

I know the names being bought up are not sexy - I would have kept Chol over all these blokes anyday - but unfortunately we blew our chance to lock him up cheap by keeping him marooned on the rookie list a year too long. If we are legit, 100% going for a flag next year - we need to be armed and have all weak spots covered. We didn't do that in 2021 & when Toby went down, we struggled to compete in the middle. We now run that same risk if Lynch goes down.

Before we crap on Mason due to his giant spudness - look at your stats & tell me he will not give you nearly the EXACT same output than CCJ did this year. For all the hecking he cops, he is a proven Finals player - he stood up bigtime in 2018 Prelim & GF Their 2021 stats are almost a dead replica.

All going well, we play him in the VFL for 20 games and never need to use him - but if Lynch goes down & Soldo struggles to regain his past form - we will need him, or someone else - otherwise we are screwed. Samson Ryan is not ready for that roleView attachment 1265319



I hate Mason as much as anyone, but i wouldn't cut off my hand to spite my Cox

I see what your saying, but i also disagree with peoples notions to get rid of him. We have played him out of position since 2019 and he had personal issues last year. He’s a natural forward. play him in the forward line.

 

[Dont_Argue]

Based on that phantom seems likely that we could:

Trade up for Callaghan at GC pick

then the possibility of replenishing KPP stocks with:

JVR, Bazzo, Aleer

 

[Football Tragic]

Based on that phantom seems likely that we could:

Trade up for Callaghan at GC pick

then the possibility of replenishing KPP stocks with:

JVR, Bazzo, Aleer

I really hope we don't do that. I'm eager to keep 5 picks inside 30 and don't feel the difference to our team that someone like Callaghan offers is massively different to someone like Ward or Hobbs.

 

[Marcel Proust]

38 or PSD wasn't it Norf fans?

Roos boss unpacks complex trade for Tiger, flags plans for list hole

‘Doesn’t work that way’: Roos boss explains how club could’ve botched huge trade coup

www.foxsports.com.au

North Melbourne football boss Brady Rawlings says Callum Coleman-Jones wouldn’t have come to the club if it elected to force him through the pre-season draft

“It sounds quite simple as you can walk someone to a pre-season draft - it doesn’t quite work that way,” he said.

Counter point.

Yes it does

 

[Bojangles17]

I really hope we don't do that. I'm eager to keep 5 picks inside 30 and don't feel the difference to our team that someone like Callaghan offers is massively different to someone like Ward or Hobbs.

Fully concur on that , hope that how we’re thinking

 

[Monjike]

Put me down cholly has best left foot kick I’ve seen , poetry

He averaged 5.9 kicks a game....

 

[tora tora tora]

He averaged 5.9 kicks a game....

quality over.......

 

[Bojangles17]

He averaged 5.9 kicks a game....

That wasn’t my point , I didn’t say he was the greatest ball magnet I’ve seen . Re read it

 

[RJKTiger]

A stop gap KPF is a waste of space. As I said the other day, if things go pear shaped and we need to turn to the likes of Ryan or Miller or a draftee or need to use Nankervis or Soldo as a KPF we're going to get more out of that, than turning to failed options from other teams.

Firstly if that happens then it's likely that we're not going to be a finals contender, so why shoot ourselves in the foot from a draft point of view by having a stop gap option helping us win a couple of extra games. Secondly by using the likes of Ryan or Miller or a draftee were getting development into them, which serves us better for the long term future than a stop gap spud will offer.

If the opposite happens and it all goes well, then the likes of Ryan and the draftee/s will get to be around a team that is contending which also helps their development because on the likelihood that they are called upon they are going to be playing in games where we're contending and that will help with their development again.

Stop gaps very rarely work, and to get them to even commit you need to offer up a multi year deal which means we're effectively stuck with them for 2 seasons. As it stands we have 7 open spots, with the plan being to take 5 kids in the draft, upgrade a couple of rookies and then redraft Nyoun and Cumberland, if we were to take a stop gap option, then it means we either don't take the 5 picks in the draft or we don't redraft one of Nyoun or Cumberland, who are both likely to only get 1 year rookie deals initially which means if they don't work out we can move on from them this time next year, rather than being tied to them for another 12 months.

Then what is the point of a stop gap Full Back like Tarrant? We have HEAPS more depth in the CHB/FB positions that our KPF stocks. Balta, Miller, Broad, Grimes, Biggy - Vloss is closer to a FPD than Caddy is a forward. Toby has shown far more form dropping"Back" than forward. We have also added Tarrant. Where is the argument here? Are Key backs more important than key forwards in the modern game ? I dont think so.

We have Jack, Tom & possibly Noah if we rob the backline of its best defender as our Key Forward depth. Thats it.

If we are going again, we need to learn from the mistakes of 2021, we need depth to carry us for 6 weeks incase Lynch or Jack get injured.

 

[SumTingWong]

I just don’t see the point in trading up. Hobbs/Ward/Erasmus/Gibcus and then one of Van Rooyen/Sinn/Sonsie/Johnson etc is a better result that just Callaghan. The more I look at the draft, it’s a clear top 3, then another 6-7 fairly even types and then about 20 you can throw a blanket over

The point of trading up is for the experts in our recruiting team to guarantee an A grader getting to our club rather than a couple more speculative picks later on. Are you an expert on this years kids? Why is your idea better?

 

[docko911]

Have a look at Knightmare's phantom and I dare you to tell me you wouldn't want 5 picks inside 30 in this draft.

ESPN's Early Phantom Draft

Hopefully we don’t go out and draft 4 players under 185cm.

 

[fargothegreat]

The fact that EVERYONE with a pick in that range is trying to trade up tells you that Callaghan is very highly rated.

 

[Infamy]

Hopefully we don’t go out and draft 4 players under 185cm.

I wouldn't mind if the draft plays out the way he has them listed, but certainly not some of the players he has us taking with what is available on the board at each selection

 

[DoItForCaptBlood]

The point of trading up is for the experts in our recruiting team to guarantee an A grader getting to our club rather than a couple more speculative picks later on. Are you an expert on this years kids? Why is your idea better?

Not sure pick 7 can be called speculative. Callaghan vs Hobbs/ Erasmus, and we lose 15 ... Sonsie/Goater/Roberts or next year's first. I'll back the club in, but prefer the odds of any two in that list to have more impact long term than one player.