Recruiting Trade & Free Agency V

[eth-dog]

The point was we've got too many, we get rid of some and then replace them, it's still arguably too many. I would have thought the idea is to get to the point where we bat so deep in the midfield that some of the mids have to play a little bit forward, rather than the other way around.

Every premiership side I've ever seen has had the former, meanwhile I've never seen anyone do anything significant when they fall into the latter category.

So much this. Ideally you'd have 4 permanent forwards in the side and no more, the rest either rotating in the middle or being the secondary ruckman.

 

[GUMBLETRON]

The point was we've got too many, we get rid of some and then replace them, it's still arguably too many. I would have thought the idea is to get to the point where we bat so deep in the midfield that some of the mids have to play a little bit forward, rather than the other way around.

Every premiership side I've ever seen has had the former, meanwhile I've never seen anyone do anything significant when they fall into the latter category.

The line between forward and midfielder isn't exactly clear. What were Chapman and Johnson, for example, or even Ablett before he pulled his finger out? They could certainly do a job in midfield but that didn't necessarily make them midfielders. Meanwhile, you can have quality mids who really don't offer much closer to goal, be it resting or filling gaps through necessity - it's a problem GWS have had of late, hence drafting a raft of dedicated small forwards rather than relying on the likes of Hopper and Kennedy.

Bomber made that point in an interesting post-game presser a few years ago around Goddard playing forward, explaining how difficult it is to find career midfielders who can work effectively ahead of the ball. Pressure is one part of it and as Bruno puts it should be non-negotiable, but having that knack for getting in the right position and an eye for scoring and assists is far less about discipline and harder to teach.

That's not to say I don't agree with you that the current balance of the list clearly skews away from the midfield; just thinking out loud.

 

[FlyingV]

An elite midfield runner would be a nice pickup. Seeing how collingwood torched us and Melbourne on the G with Treloar, Phillips, Sidebottom, WHE, Stephenson, Aish, Adams, Crisp, Murray ... that looks like where the game is headed. Fast, super fit midfielders who can apply pressure all day with their big aerobic tanks instead of just in bursts or for a quarter or two.

GWS are also following that mould having drafted Kelly, Whitfield, Taranto, Shiel, Coniglio (trading in) Scully, WHE (traded out), Treloar (traded out) who are all terrific runners.

Whilst we have some explosive guys, I don’t know just how aerobic they are (Fantasia, Saad, McKenna, AMT, Laverde). We seem to be cooked towards the end of third and fourth quarters.

 

[BrunoV]

Gday Bombers, would you trade Francis for Dom Tyson and our third round pick?

Not until the point that you'd know that there is no way that it would be a fair trade (i.e. because Francis is not good enough).

At this point, we have very good reason to think that he will fulfill his potential (as strange as that might seem given where he started the year). The player in the number 10 this year is not the same guy that has ever played for Essendon.

We can't make a decision on Francis until we've seen what he does in the second half of the year.

By the end of 2018 we're not going to be entertaining a trade unless he wants to go home or you wont be as generous with your trade hypothetical. I don't really see a midpoint.

 

[owen87]

Small forwards are also the most overrated players in the game. I'm talking about a small forward who really has no presence up the ground and is in essence a one position player. Someone like Jake Neade is a prime example. He excites crows finishing the work of others but really adds nothing structurally.

I'm not sure that I think that there is need for depth small forwards. Small forwards should be played because like Fantasia, Breust, Cyril or Wingard, they're gun forwards or they should just be hard working smalls with massive running power who are just as suited to playing in the middle or on a wing. That is, afterall, what Richmond's forward-line is made up of. Someone like Ben Ronke is another good example.

Small forwards are overrated because the structural function, the defensive part of being a small forward, can be performed by any disciplined small player. Yes some guys like Neade or Green have unique ability to crumb as forwards but the ability to rove the ball is still a skill that you'd expect of any small player. It's just not the same with the tall and mid-sized forwards.

I wouldn't have more specialist small forwards on a list than I would ruckmen and I'd only have two specialist ruckmen.

Unless they've got an elite ground level game the way Betts or Menzel (for example) do - even though Betts does play up the ground a bit - I think they need to offer more these days.

That's why Green struggles even though he's actually very good as a crumbing player; he's not dangerous enough to offset the lack of everything else.

 

[Zach Package]

The line between forward and midfielder isn't exactly clear. What were Chapman and Johnson, for example, or even Ablett before he pulled his finger out? They could certainly do a job in midfield but that didn't necessarily make them midfielders. Meanwhile, you can have quality mids who really don't offer much closer to goal, be it resting or filling gaps through necessity - it's a problem GWS have had of late, hence drafting a raft of dedicated small forwards rather than relying on the likes of Hopper and Kennedy.

I think you draw the line at quite simply 'can they actually play midfield?' SJ and Chappy could, I would say Fantasia and Colyer have shown they can and I suspect Laverde and Begley will prove it given time too. Green, Baguley, Merrett simply don't have the traits for it. I'm not saying the small forward is dead or that we don't need them, but they need be either be flat out good, be able to rotate effectively through the middle of the ground or offer some kind of other point of difference. It's why I never consider Walla any kind of liability because even though he is in essence a stay at home crumber he can mark on the lead, can act as a bit of a bowling ball in packs to break the play up on occasion and is also an immaculate field kick off both feet. Colyer is an endurance specialist who can essentially play on the wing from the forward pocket, and Begley and Laverde are both physical beasts who actually have football acumen. Those are the kind of traits that actually make them playable as small forwards in my book, they can apply pressure AND do that, not just apply pressure, which is obviously a base requirement.

Speaking of Begley, I wouldn't be at all surprised if he's the one that Worsfold talks to Dodoro about and says 'get me a couple more like that kid'. He's the modern prototype.

 

[Towno78]

An elite midfield runner would be a nice pickup. Seeing how collingwood torched us and Melbourne on the G with Treloar, Phillips, Sidebottom, WHE, Stephenson, Aish, Adams, Crisp, Murray ... that looks like where the game is headed. Fast, super fit midfielders who can apply pressure all day with their big aerobic tanks instead of just in bursts or for a quarter or two.

GWS are also following that mould having drafted Kelly, Whitfield, Taranto, Shiel, Coniglio (trading in) Scully, WHE (traded out), Treloar (traded out) who are all terrific runners.

Whilst we have some explosive guys, I don’t know just how aerobic they are (Fantasia, Saad, McKenna, AMT, Laverde). We seem to be cooked towards the end of third and fourth quarters.

Take fanta off your list, covers more kms than most of our mids, massive workrate. Don't see any problem with McKenna's capacity as much as it is learning where and when to run. And Saad appears to be running just as well in the last as the first.
I agree our running as a team is down relative to the comp, don't think those 3 are the culprits though.

 

[bjisgod9]

Is it too hard to ask for another Fantasia? Get another hard-working small fwd who is quick, handy mark and has great goal sense & can also impact in the midfield...surely not too much to ask

 

[FlyingV]

Is it too hard to ask for another Fantasia? Get another hard-working small fwd who is quick, handy mark and has great goal sense & can also impact in the midfield...surely not too much to ask

I reckon in Higgins there was one available in last years draft

 

[Milanista28]

Rumors around now about Brad Crouch wanting out of the Crows, Matty Crouch could follow.

ALL IN DODORO!!!

 

[Yoda_]

Rumors around now about Brad Crouch wanting out of the Crows, Matty Crouch could follow.

B.Crouch would be the first port of call if we were to go and ravage the Crows for players. Obviously going to cost a bit, he is exactly the sort of player we need.

 

[Milanista28]

B.Crouch would be the first port of call if we were to go and ravage the Crows for players. Obviously going to cost a bit, he is exactly the sort of player we need.

Absolutely. I'd try for both if available. (Doubtful at this stage)

 

[eth-dog]

To get both we'd have to give some sort of combination of:

2018 first, 2019 first, 2018 second, Francis, Fantasia, Redman

Most likely the 2x firsts and Francis/Redman.

 

[Yoda_]

To get both we'd have to give some sort of combination of:

2018 first, 2019 first, 2018 second, Francis, Fantasia, Redman

Most likely the 2x firsts and Francis/Redman.

I never quite understood the whole future trading thing but is the requirement of a 2x first rounders taken in a 4 year period a rolling one or is it from the time of the initial trade?

So we need to take 2 x first rounders by 2020 or something?

 

[eth-dog]

I never quite understood the whole future trading thing but is the requirement of a 2x first rounders taken in a 4 year period a rolling one or is it from the time of the initial trade?

So we need to take 2 x first rounders by 2020 or something?

It's rolling, however it apparently doesn't start until next year (I thought it was this year).

 

[Haychh]

I reckon in Higgins there was one available in last years draft

We probably would have had a fair look at him had we kept our pick 11. However, I'm pretty happy with Dev Smith and GWS 2nd rounder instead

 

[eth-dog]

We probably would have had a fair look at him had we kept our pick 11. However, I'm pretty happy with Dev Smith and GWS 2nd rounder instead

I think we would have picked Bonar actually.

 

[Old Stuckup]

I think we would have picked Bonar actually.

Reckon we would’ve overlooked Fogarty?

 

[yodellinhank]

It's rolling, however it apparently doesn't start until next year (I thought it was this year).

Depends on if the league want the trade to go through or not.

 

[eth-dog]

Reckon we would’ve overlooked Fogarty?

I doubt we pass on a 189 cm clearance midfielder for a guy who basically slid because of go home factor. However had we had Fogarty we may well have had the currency to get both Crouch's ironically.

 

[Zach Package]

I reckon in Higgins there was one available in last years draft

You think we would have picked the high ceiling low floor ready to play type to get us over the 6th placed hump?

Even we’re not that short sighted

 

[eth-dog]

You think we would have picked the high ceiling low floor ready to play type to get us over the 6th placed hump?

Even we’re not that short sighted

You mean the low ceiling, high floor?

 

[Fozdog]

Provided of course that the Crouch Bros are up for sale.

 

[Zach Package]

You mean the low ceiling, high floor?

Ahem, yes.

Thank you

 

[TheGrizz]

Rumors around now about Brad Crouch wanting out of the Crows, Matty Crouch could follow.

ALL IN DODORO!!!

2018 1st rounder for M.Crouch
Or 2 x 2nd rounders (2018 and 2019) for B.crouch (quality player but injuries galore)

Would offer 2 firsts and even francis need be in a heart beat for both if f say a 2nd rounder came back.

LONG shot though that we land both. Would be happy with either to be honest.