Recruiting Trade & Free Agency VII

[Lore]

We can't trade our first without bringing another first in.

 

[fairbump_playon]

You’re probably right but I think we are only scratching the surface of Ham atm. They clearly rate him; the bloke is 70kgs and they are giving him centre bounce experience already. Give him two years and I think he’ll be in our starting midfield.

Yes I think young Ham is the complete sandwich. Will be a star.

 

[andleanback]

Delist/retire: Bellchambers, Zaharakis, Laverde, Begley, Mutch

1 year: Gown, Mosquito, McKernan, Crauford, Hibberd, Townsend, Phillips

2 years: Gleeson, Cutler, Ham, Snelling, Daniher

3+ years: McGrath, Langford, Ridley, Saad

Unsure about Stewart, either delist (if we attract another key forward) or 1 year (if we lose Daniher). Players who could get tradedunder contract:

Darcy Parish (will be unpopular but our midfield lacks size and he could fetch a good price), Orazio Fantasia (Please don't request a trade Raz. We love you.), Matt Guelfi (More hope, I love the way he goes about it but he's not AFL standard IMO), Dylan Clarke (Maybe go to Sydney to join his brother?)

Potential trade targets:

Key forwards: Elliott Himmelberg, Peter Wright, Jeremy Finlayson, Sam Weideman, Josh Schache
Big bodied inside midfielders: Willem Drew, Will Brodie, Ollie Wines, Paul Ahern, Jack Bytel

I'd love for any combination of Wright/Weideman/Schache and Drew/Brodie/Wines

No way cutler is getting a 2 year extension after only getting 1 last year. Would have to play some seriously got footy and finish top 10 in our bnf to get that.

 

[eth-dog]

No way cutler is getting a 2 year extension after only getting 1 last year. Would have to play some seriously got footy and finish top 10 in our bnf to get that.

You reckon? We usually give players 2 years if they establish themselves as best 22 that year, which I think he's shown to be very possible. Look at Laverde for example, his last contract was for a 2 year deal at the end of 2018, despite having middling success that year, same with Langford after playing the last 14 games of 2018. If he gets back in and plays, say, 12 of the H/A games this year (roughly the same % as Langford in 2018 with 16 games) would you be shocked to see him get 2 years?

In fact if you look at our OOC list it's mostly players coming off a 2 year deal (McGrath, Stewart, Laverde, Ridley, Begley, Mutch, Langford, McKernan, Bellchambers) or players with their first contract at the club (Saad, Phillips, Crauford, Ham, Mosquito, Townsend, Hibberd, Gown, Cutler) with the exceptions being Snelling (hadn't established best 22, looked to be on the fringe) and Daniher (star coming off a 3 year deal). It's a similar story for next year's OOC list with Zerk, Parish, Clarke, Redman, Guelfi and Ambrose coming off 2 year extensions.

I can see Cutler only getting the 1 year but it's definitely possible for him to get a 2 year extension.

 

[andleanback]

You reckon? We usually give players 2 years if they establish themselves as best 22 that year, which I think he's shown to be very possible. Look at Laverde for example, his last contract was for a 2 year deal at the end of 2018, despite having middling success that year, same with Langford after playing the last 14 games of 2018. If he gets back in and plays, say, 12 of the H/A games this year (roughly the same % as Langford in 2018 with 16 games) would you be shocked to see him get 2 years?

In fact if you look at our OOC list it's mostly players coming off a 2 year deal (McGrath, Stewart, Laverde, Ridley, Begley, Mutch, Langford, McKernan, Bellchambers) or players with their first contract at the club (Saad, Phillips, Crauford, Ham, Mosquito, Townsend, Hibberd, Gown, Cutler) with the exceptions being Snelling (hadn't established best 22, looked to be on the fringe) and Daniher (star coming off a 3 year deal). It's a similar story for next year's OOC list with Zerk, Parish, Clarke, Redman, Guelfi and Ambrose coming off 2 year extensions.

I can see Cutler only getting the 1 year but it's definitely possible for him to get a 2 year extension.

I think it’s a higher chance that cutler gets delisted over getting a 2 year deal. 1 year deal most likely, but he hasn’t see the world on fire by any means. He’s a terrible user of the footy.

 

[eDPS]

I think it’s a higher chance that cutler gets delisted over getting a 2 year deal. 1 year deal most likely, but he hasn’t see the world on fire by any means. He’s a terrible user of the footy.

This part I don’t agree with, although he is a better user down back than up the ground where he is under more pressure

 

[Lore]

We rarely give out 3 years after a players first contract at AFL level, the only one I can think of is Walla, who was a lot better than Ham is right now.

Draper? Or did he get renewed as a rookie first? He's 21... Exceptional circumstances in both cases though, with Walla being a mature aged rookie who had a huge opportunity to make a name for himself in 2016.

 

[eth-dog]

I think it’s a higher chance that cutler gets delisted over getting a 2 year deal. 1 year deal most likely, but he hasn’t see the world on fire by any means. He’s a terrible user of the footy.

I would have to disagree completely. He's a two way running outside midfielder that has been an important outlet on a wing in our first two games, against Carlton we lost Cutler and moved Langford into an inside role, who were our two main outlets between the arcs in the first two games, and we wondered why the ball was locked inside Carlton's 50 for large parts of the game. Against Collingwood we saw Langford move to an outside role again, claiming 6 marks, only one of which was inside 50.

Draper? Or did he get renewed as a rookie first? He's 21... Exceptional circumstances in both cases though, with Walla being a mature aged rookie who had a huge opportunity to make a name for himself in 2016.

Got a 2 year deal after his first year, then a 4 year deal last year.

 

[andleanback]

This part I don’t agree with, although he is a better user down back than up the ground where he is under more pressure

Every time he gets the ball he just kicks it long 50m+ even when there’s shorter hit up targets. He’s not a player I’d want the ball in his hands other than having a shot from 50.

 

[Yoda_]

I won’t be surprised one bit of we delist James Stewart eth-dog


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[HirdyLannister]

I won’t be surprised one bit of we delist James Stewart eth-dog


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Hope not, sexy muscles in pictures. Perfect poster boy

 

[ghostdog]

I would have to disagree completely. He's a two way running outside midfielder that has been an important outlet on a wing in our first two games, against Carlton we lost Cutler and moved Langford into an inside role, who were our two main outlets between the arcs in the first two games, and we wondered why the ball was locked inside Carlton's 50 for large parts of the game. Against Collingwood we saw Langford move to an outside role again, claiming 6 marks, only one of which was inside 50.

Got a 2 year deal after his first year, then a 4 year deal last year.

One of the reasons he was released from Brisbane was that he wasn't up to their defensive system. In part, that was because he wasn't two-way running. When he was signed, you admitted this yourself in discussion about his recruitment.
He has only played two games for Essendon for 3 tackles. He has taken 9 marks, but I'm not sure the sample size is great enough yet to unequivocally say he's a two-way runner. There's a greater sample that suggests he isn't.

 

[eth-dog]

I won’t be surprised one bit of we delist James Stewart eth-dog


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Neither would I, but if he plays 10 games and kicks 15-20 goals he might keep his spot on the list. It's a genuine 50/50 at this stage.

One of the reasons he was released from Brisbane was that he wasn't up to their defensive system. In part, that was because he wasn't two-way running. When he was signed, you admitted this yourself in discussion about his recruitment.
He has only played two games for Essendon for 3 tackles. He has taken 9 marks, but I'm not sure the sample size is great enough yet to unequivocally say he's a two-way runner. There's a greater sample that suggests he isn't.

I wasn't convinced based on his time at Brisbane but from my viewing he's substantially improved in that area, I've often seen him inside defensive 50 in open play which is a resonable indicator. Tackles isn't that great an indicator for outside players, as most tackles are in and around the contest. Andrew Gaff averages 1.6 tackles a game and he's the best 2 way outside mid in the league, for example. I'd love to see his heatmaps for his first two games though.

 

[Yoda_]

Watching Adelaide (v West Coast) and the perfect player they miss is that final pass inside 50.

We’ve got a guy on our list who wants to return home to South Australia at some stage in his career.

Who’d you have from Adelaide for Raz?


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[eth-dog]

Watching Adelaide (v West Coast) and the perfect player they miss is that final pass inside 50.

We’ve got a guy on our list who wants to return home to South Australia at some stage in his career.

Who’d you have from Adelaide for Raz?


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None. Would 100% have to be a draft pick, a second round isn't good enough and they aren't giving up that #1 pick for him.

 

[TheGrizz]

None. Would 100% have to be a draft pick, a second round isn't good enough and they aren't giving up that #1 pick for him.

They have GWS's first rounder (pick 15-18ish) as well.

Would take that in a heartbeat but doubt they offer that either

 

[eth-dog]

They have GWS's first rounder (pick 15-18ish) as well.

Would take that in a heartbeat but doubt they offer that either

How likely are we to get a small forward of Raz's quality at that pick?

 

[Yoda_]

How likely are we to get a small forward of Raz's quality at that pick?

We can’t complain, we did get him with a late second (pick 39 iirc??) and Cahill sounds as though he’s showing a bit.

Would take that 16 - 18 in a heart beat


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[eth-dog]

We can’t complain, we did get him with a late second (pick 39 iirc??) and Cahill sounds as though he’s showing a bit.

Would take that 16 - 18 in a heart beat


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Pick 55. And personally, if we're able to I'd rather keep him as we are a better side with him in the side. People get caught up in what we could get for players without thinking about whether or not it would take us forward as a club. In this case I would firmly argue it would not.

 

[ghostdog]

How likely are we to get a small forward of Raz's quality at that pick?

5 goal Ned Cahill is his name apparently

 

[eth-dog]

5 goal Ned Cahill is his name apparently

In a 12 v 12 game, grain of salt needed. But yeah, promising signs early.

 

[Snake Charmer]

Delist/retire: Bellchambers, Zaharakis, Laverde, Begley, Mutch

1 year: Gown, Mosquito, McKernan, Crauford, Hibberd, Townsend, Phillips

2 years: Gleeson, Cutler, Ham, Snelling, Daniher

3+ years: McGrath, Langford, Ridley, Saad

Unsure about Stewart, either delist (if we attract another key forward) or 1 year (if we lose Daniher). Players who could get tradedunder contract:

Darcy Parish (will be unpopular but our midfield lacks size and he could fetch a good price), Orazio Fantasia (Please don't request a trade Raz. We love you.), Matt Guelfi (More hope, I love the way he goes about it but he's not AFL standard IMO), Dylan Clarke (Maybe go to Sydney to join his brother?)

Potential trade targets:

Key forwards: Elliott Himmelberg, Peter Wright, Jeremy Finlayson, Sam Weideman, Josh Schache
Big bodied inside midfielders: Willem Drew, Will Brodie, Ollie Wines, Paul Ahern, Jack Bytel

I'd love for any combination of Wright/Weideman/Schache and Drew/Brodie/Wines

Himmelberg is crap is not up to it. Wright should be the one we chase hard. We need a big marking forward

 

[Red Black and Blue]

I think we should be going inside mids and x-factor mid sized players. Gown, Stewart are back in action. Drapers showing forward craft and marking prowess. With Jones and Daniher fit we’ll have 5 pure tall forwards to call upon.

 

[Yoda_]

I think we should be going inside mids and x-factor mid sized players. Gown, Stewart are back in action. Drapers showing forward craft and marking prowess. With Jones and Daniher fit we’ll have 5 pure tall forwards to call upon.

Gown isn’t up to it imho
Stewart is always injured
McKernan is a stop gap and doing a role
Daniher is the lynchpin

We did draft Harrison Jones who could develop into a decent enough player.
Nick Bryan could fill that 2nd ruck role.

Really depends on on what happens with the 3/4 guys we should be seeing in the seniors (Daniher, McKernan, Stewart). Two leave/delist we’ll
Need even another stop gap or go and get Jeremy Cameron


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[ghostdog]

Himmelberg is crap is not up to it. Wright should be the one we chase hard. We need a big marking forward

Himmelberg is much better than Wright as a second or third to Joe IMO. He works up the ground and has more pace and agility, where Wright is slow and clunky. He's a much better kick as well. I think Wright was drafted as a ruckman and they tried to turn him into a forward.

Edit: my bad. I thought this was referring to Harry Himmelberg.

 

[eth-dog]

Himmelberg is much better than Wright as a second or third to Joe IMO. He works up the ground and has more pace and agility, where Wright is slow and clunky. He's a much better kick as well. I think Wright was drafted as a ruckman and they tried to turn him into a forward.

Wright was both as a junior. People thought he'd be a forward first.