Recruiting Trade & Free Agency VII

[Lore]

We can't trade our first without bringing another first in.

 

[ghostdog]

None. Would 100% have to be a draft pick, a second round isn't good enough and they aren't giving up that #1 pick for him.

If they really wanted Raz and we wanted a pick we could suggest they split it for two and then we talk. Otherwise, I'd be happy with Brad Crouch.

 

[eth-dog]

If they really wanted Raz and we wanted a pick we could suggest they split it for two and then we talk. Otherwise, I'd be happy with Brad Crouch.

I wouldn't. Ideal scenario is to keep Raz.

 

[ghostdog]

Delist/retire: Bellchambers, Zaharakis, Laverde, Begley, Mutch

1 year: Gown, Mosquito, McKernan, Crauford, Hibberd, Townsend, Phillips

2 years: Gleeson, Cutler, Ham, Snelling, Daniher

3+ years: McGrath, Langford, Ridley, Saad

Unsure about Stewart, either delist (if we attract another key forward) or 1 year (if we lose Daniher). Players who could get tradedunder contract:

Darcy Parish (will be unpopular but our midfield lacks size and he could fetch a good price), Orazio Fantasia (Please don't request a trade Raz. We love you.), Matt Guelfi (More hope, I love the way he goes about it but he's not AFL standard IMO), Dylan Clarke (Maybe go to Sydney to join his brother?)

Potential trade targets:

Key forwards: Elliott Himmelberg, Peter Wright, Jeremy Finlayson, Sam Weideman, Josh Schache
Big bodied inside midfielders: Willem Drew, Will Brodie, Ollie Wines, Paul Ahern, Jack Bytel

I'd love for any combination of Wright/Weideman/Schache and Drew/Brodie/Wines

No Fiorini?

 

[eth-dog]

No Fiorini?

Don't think we'd get him

 

[ghostdog]

Don't think we'd get him

He's behind Rowell, Anderson, Swallow, Holman, Macpherson and Miller. As a fringe mid he's competing with Brodie as well. You don't think he'd leave for greater opportunity?

 

[eth-dog]

He's behind Rowell, Anderson, Swallow, Holman, Macpherson and Miller. As a fringe mid he's competing with Brodie as well. You don't think he'd leave for greater opportunity?

I think he'll play the rest of the year and re-sign honestly

 

[ant555]

One of the reasons he was released from Brisbane was that he wasn't up to their defensive system. In part, that was because he wasn't two-way running. When he was signed, you admitted this yourself in discussion about his recruitment.
He has only played two games for Essendon for 3 tackles. He has taken 9 marks, but I'm not sure the sample size is great enough yet to unequivocally say he's a two-way runner. There's a greater sample that suggests he isn't.

The sample size is not enough yet but he is the "type" of winger we need. Both games he worked up and down his wing well and he takes 3 or 4 marks down the line. Jury is still out but right now a winger who can take a few marks and kick it inside 50 has value to us given we can struggle to move the ball out of defense for periods of games.
Not sure about the Brisbane comments. Yes there are some around that he did not work both ways but I remember seeing games where his work rate was pretty good and even now I have questions about Brisbanes defensive plan.

 

[ant555]

How likely are we to get a small forward of Raz's quality at that pick?

I would be happy with that pick. Razz is good but he always has at least one injury a season.

 

[ghostdog]

The sample size is not enough yet but he is the "type" of winger we need. Both games he worked up and down his wing well and he takes 3 or 4 marks down the line. Jury is still out but right now a winger who can take a few marks and kick it inside 50 has value to us given we can struggle to move the ball out of defense for periods of games.
Not sure about the Brisbane comments. Yes there are some around that he did not work both ways but I remember seeing games where his work rate was pretty good and even now I have questions about Brisbanes defensive plan.

I'm not sure either really, just going on what so many Brisbane supporters have said about Cuts' game. We definitely could have done with another marking target last night. Would have preferred Cutler on a wing, Langford HF and Laverde out.

 

[Ambrosia]

I can see anyof the following not being on the list next year:

Bellchambers, Daniher (RFA), Gleeson (UFA), Zaharakis, Fantasia, Laverde, Begley, Stewart, Mutch, Townsend, Mozzie, Hooker (retired), Gown, Phillips, Guelfi, Johnson, Clarke, Snelling, McKenna, Hibberd, Crauford and Hird

Now quite a few there are very unlikely but they're the ones I can see not being here

Hird’s got a two year contract. They’d need to cut the cat b list for him to be cut

 

[Ambrosia]

I think Stewart gets a 1 year deal at a minimum. Even if Daniher stays we have no depth in the KPF area. At the very least we know Stewart can compete at AFL level

 

[Red Black and Blue]

Gown isn’t up to it imho
Stewart is always injured
McKernan is a stop gap and doing a role
Daniher is the lynchpin

We did draft Harrison Jones who could develop into a decent enough player.
Nick Bryan could fill that 2nd ruck role.

Really depends on on what happens with the 3/4 guys we should be seeing in the seniors (Daniher, McKernan, Stewart). Two leave/delist we’ll
Need even another stop gap or go and get Jeremy Cameron


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It really depends on what you want out of your key forwards or think is realistic. IMO there are about only 5 really good key forwards in the competition atm. With the Kings and Naughton being the only elite kids coming through, Allen just a level below them.

Do I think Gown is in that company no. But I think he can be a Taberner if given the time. He was tracking beautifully before his foot injury. Going at more than a goal a game and was busting packs. Only need to replicate that at AFL level to be at the same output level as most current AFL forwards.

I think there is a fair chance that the premiers this year will have a pretty average key forward.

 

[foj1]

Wright was both as a junior. People thought he'd be a forward first.

No Peter Wright was a forward.
kovacevic and O’Brien rucked before him From memory.
a moonee valley boy who may be available cheap.

 

[11kgm]

Peter Wright (Calder Cannons)

Height: 203 cm
Weight: 100 kg
Position: Key forward/ruckman
Strengths: Goal kicking, marking, movement
Areas needing improvement: Tackling, field kicking consistency
Player comparison: Mitch Clark
Peter Wright has taken his game to another level this year. His thirteen TAC Cup games have yielded 32 goals, including a bags of six, five, four and several hauls of three goals. Wright likes to roam up towards centre half forward, and he is smart in his leading patterns, so he uses the space he opens up to double back into if a counter attack is on.
Wright is a monster kick for goal. He easily clears the distance from 55 metres, and he kicks well through the ball, so you can back him in from distance and on an angle. Technically, he has an excellent kicking action, and it’s fairly accurate (32.21 for the year). Much of that inaccuracy came in his first two games of the year, with 0.5 then 5.4. That is very unlike Wright. However, what concerns me is his field kicking. He by no means has elite footskills, as 27 of his 68 of his kicks this year have been ineffective. That means about 60% of his kicks hit the target, but that total would be considerably lower if his reliable kicking for goal was taken away.
Wright is an excellent mark in all aspects. 23 of his 79 marks this year have been contested. His run in late August was phenomenal. To that date, he had 10 contested marks in eight games. In those two weeks he took ten contested grabs (24 marks in total). With his height and weight, he should probably have a higher contested mark ratio throughout the year, however, his strong engine allows him to burn off his opponents and take marks uncontested. As aforementioned his leading patterns are smart and, alongside his engine, makes Wright a really intelligent and athletic forward. That makes Wright a really rare forward, as his size, endurance and intelligence gives him a chance to become one of the most unstoppable and versatile big men.
Wright finds a decent amount of the football and, when he plays in the ruck, finds the football in a Dean Cox type role. Admittedly, he isn’t a dominant ruckman in terms of hitouts, but he wins enough to justify more than a pinch-hitting role. Wright played quite well in the National Championships, primarily as a ruckman. At this stage, he certainly looks a better forward prospect, but his rare skill set may mean he becomes a full-time ruckman at AFL level.

 

[TheGrizz]

Would go after Wright regardless of whether Joe leaves. It would mean we could send him into the ruck instead of Joe.

Smith Daniher Stringer
Walla Wright Fantasia

Would be very good from a balance perspective. Wo uuld also put the heat on Smack to perform.

 

[BrunoV]

I've always liked the idea or Wright.

I reckon it's probably a year too late unless Daniher leaves and even then it might require Gown or Stewart to be moved off the list. None of that is impossible but those sorts of wholesale clean outs are pretty rare.

I get the feeling we've hitched our wagon to Draper, Bryan and Crawford as a long term combination of ruckman/second tall forwards.

It seems to me that all of the criticisms that could be leveled at McKernan would apply equally to Wright (whose major advantage is that he's younger). He's a weird player. Despite his size and athleticism he's not been able to carve out a spot as a key forward/relief ruck you'd think he'd be perfectly suited to.

You'd think we'd back ourselves to develop Bryan or Crawford to get to that level to avoid the salary cap expenditure/picks it would take to trade Wright in. It doesn't make as much sense to me anymore.

 

[Zach Package]

My recollection of Wright is that he’s relatively coordinated for a big dude but slow as treacle and doesn’t offer much when he doesn’t mark it.

Not sure he’s a great fit for us anymore with the game style we are trying to implement and the sheer volume of talls we have

 

[Duckworth]

He was tracking beautifully before his foot injury. Going at more than a goal a game and was busting packs. Only need to replicate that at AFL level to be at the same output level as most current AFL forwards.

That is not correct, he wasn’t going that well, and zero packs were busted.

 

[Red Black and Blue]

That is not correct, he wasn’t going that well, and zero packs were busted.

Incorrect I watched him live 7 or 8 times. He was aggressive on the lead and strong in the contest. Tends to fade in and out of games which is his biggest problem.

 

[Duckworth]

Incorrect I watched him live 7 or 8 times. He was aggressive on the lead and strong in the contest. Tends to fade in and out of games which is his biggest problem.

I’ve seen plenty of his games. Regularly goes missing and can be unsighted for large parts of games. That’s not going well. 7-8 touches in most games I saw in some pretty dominant Essendon wins. Also not sure which packs you saw him bust either.

 

[Red Black and Blue]

I’ve seen plenty of his games. Regularly goes missing and can be unsighted for large parts of games. That’s not going well. Also not sure which packs you saw him bust either.

He kicked 8 goals in his last three games at VFL level and was averaging about 2 contested marks a game over his last 6. I don't see how you can't be happy with that.

 

[citizen-erased]

My recollection of Wright is that he’s relatively coordinated for a big dude but slow as treacle and doesn’t offer much when he doesn’t mark it.

Not sure he’s a great fit for us anymore with the game style we are trying to implement and the sheer volume of talls we have

Yep. Other than being a decent sized target for us to hit, if he doesn't grab it someone else needs to do the chasing.
I think there's a reason GCS aren't playing him.

tend to agree that he wouldn't much fit, but it does sound like we're looking at him.

Is handy that he can ruck though. If he came cheap enough whilst the kids develop would take a look. But it would want to be cheap. like late 2nd rd cheap.

 

[Duckworth]

He kicked 8 goals in his last three games at VFL level and was averaging about 2 contested marks a game over his last 6. I don't see how you can't be happy with that.

Cherry picking stats can be used the other way too... He kicked 4 goals in the 7 games before that, in a very dominant Essendon VFL side.
I do remember he was good in the game before he hurt his foot. That game aside he looked well short of getting an AFL game.

I’m only calling it as I see it. There are other VFL watchers who would agree with you. I found my notes on his last game


Gown: 1st goal was a 'joe the goose'. 2nd he was in the ruck, ball hit the ground with no player touching it and he snapped an easy one. Lead, mark, goal in the 3rd, Good contested mark in the 3rd to mark and goal. The most unimpressive 4 goal game. Kicked very accurately, but didn't get much of the ball considering how much time the ball spent in the Essendon forward line. Would prefer Tynan Smith (whoever he is) by a long way. My criticism of Gown has been his ability to stay in the game and impact consistently over 4 quarters. The commentators liked him though. Make of that what you will. I will be impressed if he backs it up next week and reaches double digits for possessions. Will add that this is the best game I have seen from him.

 

[Red Black and Blue]

Cherry picking stats can be used the other way too... He kicked 4 goals in the 7 games before that, in a very dominant Essendon VFL side.
I do remember he was good in the game before he hurt his foot. That game aside he looked well short of getting an AFL game.

I’m only calling it as I see it. There are other VFL watchers who would agree with you. I found my notes on his last game


Gown: 1st goal was a 'joe the goose'. 2nd he was in the ruck, ball hit the ground with no player touching it and he snapped an easy one. Lead, mark, goal in the 3rd, Good contested mark in the 3rd to mark and goal. The most unimpressive 4 goal game. Kicked very accurately, but didn't get much of the ball considering how much time the ball spent in the Essendon forward line. Would prefer Tynan Smith (whoever he is) by a long way. My criticism of Gown has been his ability to stay in the game and impact consistently over 4 quarters. The commentators liked him though. Make of that what you will. I will be impressed if he backs it up next week and reaches double digits for possessions. Will add that this is the best game I have seen from him.

It’s not cherry picking if it’s the most recent games. That’s development trajectory.

It doesn’t matter how you get them. We have AFL players missing unpressured sitters from ten-twenty metres out consistently. Put them through and you’ve done your job.

As for Tynan he’s very talented and wouldn’t be out of place on a list but medium forwards should be the last thing on our wish list. Stringer, Townsend, Langford, Laverde and Begley is pretty bloated for that position as is.

 

[eth-dog]

I would be happy with that pick. Razz is good but he always has at least one injury a season.

I'd still rather the proven AFL quality.

Hird’s got a two year contract. They’d need to cut the cat b list for him to be cut

Yeah, he's one of the very unlikely ones. I thought they were considering cutting the cat b list

I think Stewart gets a 1 year deal at a minimum. Even if Daniher stays we have no depth in the KPF area. At the very least we know Stewart can compete at AFL level

Depends on who we bring in and if he plays this year.

No Peter Wright was a forward.
kovacevic and O’Brien rucked before him From memory.
a moonee valley boy who may be available cheap.

Fair enough, I thought he was Vic Metro's #1 ruck that year though.

That is not correct, he wasn’t going that well, and zero packs were busted.

17 goals in 12 games as a teenager is very respectable actually in the VFL. I think you're being very harsh on him. He showed enough last year IMO.