List Mgmt. Trade & Free Agency VIII - Now with a poll!

Which players should stay?

  • Joe Daniher

    Votes: 81 55.1%
  • Andrew McGrath

    Votes: 136 92.5%
  • Adam Saad

    Votes: 121 82.3%
  • Kyle Langford

    Votes: 124 84.4%
  • Will Snelling

    Votes: 77 52.4%
  • Jordan Ridley

    Votes: 139 94.6%
  • Jacob Townsend

    Votes: 14 9.5%
  • Brayden Ham

    Votes: 82 55.8%
  • Martin Gleeson

    Votes: 24 16.3%
  • Jayden Laverde

    Votes: 89 60.5%
  • James Stewart

    Votes: 113 76.9%
  • Andrew Phillips

    Votes: 72 49.0%
  • Mitchell Hibberd (delisted)

    Votes: 18 12.2%
  • Irving Mosquito

    Votes: 116 78.9%
  • Kobe Mutch (delisted)

    Votes: 12 8.2%
  • Josh Begley (delisted)

    Votes: 11 7.5%
  • Noah Gown (delisted)

    Votes: 16 10.9%
  • Henry Crauford

    Votes: 84 57.1%

  • Total voters
    147

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Lore

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Draft Combine
Tuesday October 1 - Friday October 4

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Any issues with it post in this thread:

Draft discussion goes here: Draft Watch

Father/Son & NGA discussion goes here: James Hird Academy (Father/Son and Next Generation)

Please note: We cannot trade out our first rounder without bringing another one in first.
 
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andleanback

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When has Essendon done a full rebuild?


It is not all bad, you get really excited about draft night, glean some joy from watching the kids play.



Melbourne lost patience with theirs and although they have excellent top end talent they are very shallow, then gave up 3 firsts for May and Lever....

Jury still out on Carlton's if we do not make the 8 in 2021 and the 4 in 2022 then it has not been successful imo.

I am a believer that if done properly a full rebuild can work. There is a bit of luck too, pick 3 in 2017 P Dow but if we had pick 3 in 2016 we would likely have McLuggage.

I would be making the tough decision to do that it Essendon, what is the alternative? Being stuck in the middle?
When was the last time a team going full rebuild mode worked? And by full rebuild I mean selling off assets for draft picks and copping 2-3 of pain and starting fresh (not talking about clubs that have been at the top and have come to the end of their cycle). Maybe Richmond you could say, but their rebuild again was in no mans land at the end of 16 and considered a failure, until some excellent recruiting (Nank, Prestia, Caddy) and change of club culture launched them into a succesful era. I honestly don’t think it works, it takes so long to build something on that path and half the time the supporter base/ board get restless halfway through. Look how long Carlton have been going at it for and yet Freo who were top 4 2013-2015 have already done their time and have gone straight past them again. Or look at port, most people considered their list a dumpster fire at the end of 2018 and we’re doomed for being stuck in no mans land. In 2 drafts they took 7 players inside 25 and rejuvenated their list and will finish the season on top of the ladder.
 

THE_GUN

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When was the last time a team going full rebuild mode worked? And by full rebuild I mean selling off assets for draft picks and copping 2-3 of pain and starting fresh (not talking about clubs that have been at the top and have come to the end of their cycle). Maybe Richmond you could say, but their rebuild again was in no mans land at the end of 16 and considered a failure, until some excellent recruiting (Nank, Prestia, Caddy) and change of club culture launched them into a succesful era. I honestly don’t think it works, it takes so long to build something on that path and half the time the supporter base/ board get restless halfway through. Look how long Carlton have been going at it for and yet Freo who were top 4 2013-2015 have already done their time and have gone straight past them again. Or look at port, most people considered their list a dumpster fire at the end of 2018 and we’re doomed for being stuck in no mans land. In 2 drafts they took 7 players inside 25 and rejuvenated their list and will finish the season on top of the ladder.
I wouldnt really say that as 2016 was an anomaly
2013 richmond finished the reg season 5th
2014 8th
2015 5th
2016 13th
2017 1st

Richmond played finals 3 consecutive years prior to 2016
 

BrunoV

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When has Essendon done a full rebuild?


It is not all bad, you get really excited about draft night, glean some joy from watching the kids play.



Melbourne lost patience with theirs and although they have excellent top end talent they are very shallow, then gave up 3 firsts for May and Lever....

Jury still out on Carlton's if we do not make the 8 in 2021 and the 4 in 2022 then it has not been successful imo.

I am a believer that if done properly a full rebuild can work. There is a bit of luck too, pick 3 in 2017 P Dow but if we had pick 3 in 2016 we would likely have McLuggage.

I would be making the tough decision to do that it Essendon, what is the alternative? Being stuck in the middle?

Essendon would take being stuck in the middle over making any tough decisions.

There are always excuses to be made.
 

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BomberARMY

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Wow, someone from Carlton 'greenshoots' Blues telling us how to rebuild... 😂 just got pumped by the bottom side... fmd did I just wake up in the twilight zone...
 

doug85

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True, but he would also keep you competitive and finishing around 10-12th.

If you cast off your valuable assets your maximizing your return in draft picks, while maximizing how sh*t you will be for the next 3-4 years gaining further top 3 picks, you could pull off a a mega rebuild.


Carlton had f all assets in 2015 when we bottomed out, yet SOS turned Tom Bell and pick 22 in Charlie Curnow, Lachie Henderson into Harry McKay, Yarran into Cuningham. Imagine the rebuild he could do with a club that has some tradeable assets.
I don’t see draft picks as a panacea. They’re filled with risk - especially in this draft. I also see Saad, Merrett and Daniher as guys that have the right age profile for our list.

I agree with the principle that you have to give something to get something. Maybe Sheil or AMT who will be 28 at the start of next season?I suggested AMT previously and it was roundly shouted down. But I reckon he’s hit the ceiling and won’t be there for our next flag. Hope I’m wrong.
 

Fin ice Smuggler

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I don’t see draft picks as a panacea. They’re filled with risk - especially in this draft. I also see Saad, Merrett and Daniher as guys that have the right age profile for our list.

I agree with the principle that you have to give something to get something. Maybe Sheil or AMT who will be 28 at the start of next season?I suggested AMT previously and it was roundly shouted down. But I reckon he’s hit the ceiling and won’t be there for our next flag. Hope I’m wrong.
I guess with Mozzie going down it would be harder now to trade away AMT without creating another hole in our list. Cahill could step up next season but you'd want another small forward available and Tippa is the only one in that forward line that can generally kick straight.... when he decides to kick for goal that is.

Someone wrote a very good article about Essendon not being a half way house and if players such as Daniher and Saad want to go, let them, get good trade value for them in return but ensure you create a culture where it's 1 in all in. I said last year Daniher shouldve been traded to swans long before that was on the cards and was shot down. Funny that.
 

doug85

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I guess with Mozzie going down it would be harder now to trade away AMT without creating another hole in our list. Cahill could step up next season but you'd want another small forward available and Tippa is the only one in that forward line that can generally kick straight.... when he decides to kick for goal that is.

Someone wrote a very good article about Essendon not being a half way house and if players such as Daniher and Saad want to go, let them, get good trade value for them in return but ensure you create a culture where it's 1 in all in. I said last year Daniher shouldve been traded to swans long before that was on the cards and was shot down. Funny that.
Yep, if players want to go then let them (for reasonable compensation).

I’m more saying that the players discussed are the core of our future and we shouldn’t be driving trades for them.
 

The Dustbin

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Why can't the club be a bit savvy and target players who are actually good (not fringe players) but can't get a game with the real good teams. Players want to play, if they are given the opportunity (sold the story/role first) they will move, their Managers won't stop them. Understand, that it sounds easy and there are obvious challenges but when was the last time we successfully recruited a 20 - 23yo to the club? Probably would've been Cupido.
 

Fin ice Smuggler

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Yep, if players want to go then let them (for reasonable compensation).

I’m more saying that the players discussed are the core of our future and we shouldn’t be driving trades for them.
Agreed, but I don't think the club is, maybe big footy supporters are? Saad has a 4 year deal on table, supposedly and the club could've traded Daniher last year for what we think was a reasonable offer as far as draft picks for a seriously injured but gifted player. I dont think Merrett is talked about being traded and I would be surprised he would be unless he requests it.
 

Fin ice Smuggler

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Why can't the club be a bit savvy and target players who are actually good (not fringe players) but can't get a game with the real good teams. Players want to play, if they are given the opportunity (sold the story/role first) they will move, their Managers won't stop them. Understand, that it sounds easy and there are obvious challenges but when was the last time we successfully recruited a 20 - 23yo to the club? Probably would've been Cupido.
We didn't really recruit him though because that was part of the fire sell for management stuffing our salary cap up, we had to trade caracella to Lions and the lions knew Cupido wasn't 100% committed to being the best footy player ever.

maybe Adam Mcphee is a better example, not sure what age he was though.
 

The Dustbin

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We didn't really recruit him though because that was part of the fire sell for management stuffing our salary cap up, we had to trade caracella to Lions and the lions knew Cupido wasn't 100% committed to being the best footy player ever.

maybe Adam Mcphee is a better example, not sure what age he was though.
True. Didn't want to say McPhee cause Freo weren't a good team at the time.
 

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citizen-erased

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I wouldnt really say that as 2016 was an anomaly
2013 richmond finished the reg season 5th
2014 8th
2015 5th
2016 13th
2017 1st

Richmond played finals 3 consecutive years prior to 2016
Yep, 2016 was the drop year you needed to have.
Much like 06 was for the cats. really forced some honest and hard looks in the mirror, and it reaped the rewards.
I'm not sure we have that mentality.
Everything is an excuse.

Injuries, coaching transition, WADA bans, drugs saga.

We have something like 7 AAs on our list.
Add to that some cracking years from non-AA players like Saad, Ridley, McGrath and Langford.

The last 4 years is a pathetic return on the list we have & investments we've made.
 

Red Black and Blue

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When was the last time a team going full rebuild mode worked? And by full rebuild I mean selling off assets for draft picks and copping 2-3 of pain and starting fresh (not talking about clubs that have been at the top and have come to the end of their cycle). Maybe Richmond you could say, but their rebuild again was in no mans land at the end of 16 and considered a failure, until some excellent recruiting (Nank, Prestia, Caddy) and change of club culture launched them into a succesful era. I honestly don’t think it works, it takes so long to build something on that path and half the time the supporter base/ board get restless halfway through. Look how long Carlton have been going at it for and yet Freo who were top 4 2013-2015 have already done their time and have gone straight past them again. Or look at port, most people considered their list a dumpster fire at the end of 2018 and we’re doomed for being stuck in no mans land. In 2 drafts they took 7 players inside 25 and rejuvenated their list and will finish the season on top of the ladder.
The reason full rebuilds have failed is the removal of leadership. We have no leadership to extract. We are performing to the same level as a failed rebuild but with the senior players.

Though I think it would be better to extract some senior players,
I have zero problem with us maintaining most senior players but we have to start holding them accountable for sh*t form, not following instruction and harmful habits.
 
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andleanback

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I wouldnt really say that as 2016 was an anomaly
2013 richmond finished the reg season 5th
2014 8th
2015 5th
2016 13th
2017 1st

Richmond played finals 3 consecutive years prior to 2016
Correct but at the end of 2016 the club was in disarray, people thinking the list is no good. You didn’t win a final over those 3 years either and you don’t get a board challenge if everything is rosey. Many other clubs would’ve sacked hardwick at the end of ‘16, you didn’t and rest is history.
 

Howard Moon

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It's just a pity it's the 20th anniversary of 2000

Most would look back and think sh*t! It's been 20 years since we did anything.... Not our mob, we will be like see! We were the most powerful club in the land, that's the real us when things go our way, those times will come again, stay the course
 

citizen-erased

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If we were to hit this as a rebuild draft

Priority pick for Joe - Pick 6
Saad to Geelong for 11 (if he's looking for success)
Fantasia to Crows for Dogs 2nd
Dogs 2nd, GCS 3rd & Hurley to Dogs for their 1st

Add Phillips, O'Driscoll, Perkins & Cox with picks 5, 6, 10 & 11.

Ridley Zerk Francis
Smith Stewart Redman
Langford Shiel Merrett
Snelling Cox Tippa
Stringer Jones Moz
Draper Parish McGrath
O'Driscoll Phillips Perkins Gleeson

How we take the squad forward (minus the likes of Zaka, Heppell and Hooker)
 

ant555

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The Merrett talk is not from a solid gold ITK poster but they are not an utter BS artist. Anything from Barrass70 is genuine good oil though.

Are Dons going to rebuild? Not trolling but do you think you have the core to be a top 4 side (yes carlton are sh*t etc etc)

But imagine trading Merrett to Carlton for 2 firsts, Saad to someone for a late first, Daniher for a top 5 pick. Over 2 years you would have 6 first round draft picks and turbo charge a rebuild with the core coming through together.

Otherwise IMHO you will be stuck in no mans land.
Dodoro does not rebuild :mad:
I would. Where can I sign up to the above deal ?
 

citizen-erased

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All comes down to Daniher for me.

If he goes, then you start looking at the rebuild side of things (and entertain offers for the likes of Shiel, AMT, Smith, Merrett etc.)
fair point
I feel the loss of Saad, bad as it is, doesn't necessarily reset us.
Daniher is the key cog. He goes, our fwd structure falls apart.

I tend to disagree with any notion of trading Merrett.
He's shown an ability to lead a young team, and he's the one with both time & ceiling on his side.

Shiel, Smith, Tippa (Tippa would kill me though) - they are who they are. Their age is against them in a rebuild for us. I see the point in exploring trades for them.

I'd be looking at a contender who may have interest in Hurley. We don't protect him enough. When we turn it on for 5m in the season, he looks solid.
In a side like the Dogs, Pies, Cats, etc. he'd get a good 2-3 seasons on the park i imagine.
 

Lore

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Thought this was interesting, the AFLPA MVP has two stages, the first stage the players nominate three of their teammates and the second stage goes to a league-wide vote.

For Essendon, the top three for the player vote are McGrath, Merrett, and Ridley. Every other club on that list (which is the first 9 clubs alphabetically) has a 27, 28, 29, 30+ year old player among their MVPs. Merrett is the eldest of our trio and is barely 25.

Also in that 21-25 bracket are Draper, Langford, Parish, Francis, Redman, Zerk-Thatcher. So if you're talking rebuild, building around those would probably be your ideal, while our 26-27s aren't so bad either: Stringer, Daniher, Stewart, Saad, Walla, Shiel.

I don't hold with scorched earth policy, that's a good way to wreck a club completely. But the 28+ crowd of Hooker, Hurley, Heppell, Ambrose, McKernan, Zaharakis, Phillips, Smith need to be peripheral at this point, and only three are out of contract (no longer counting Bellcho). Either that or we need a lot more from them.
 

Howard Moon

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In retrospect, I feel we should've just sacked Worsfold last year, got 9 and this year's pick 4 for Daniher and used that as a platform to build a new, clean era under Rutten.

Currently, we've been left in no-man's land in all senses.
Every media scribe said as much at the time, and they wouldn't allow anything other than that to happen..

If they were left to their own devices I reckon the handover would have worked fine- it's the media constantly probing and pushing and picking (and results) that makes it a failure. Even when we were 4-1 most questions to players were in regards to the coaching structure...they were desperate to find holes and expose it
 

Schnitzengruben

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In retrospect, I feel we should've just sacked Worsfold last year, got 9 and this year's pick 4 for Daniher and used that as a platform to build a new, clean era under Rutten.

Currently, we've been left in no-man's land in all senses.
He straight up shouldn't have gotten that extension. Whoever gave him another 2 years after a fluke comeback RD 1 win against the soon-to-be-basket case that was the Crows needs a good kick up the arse. Severely f’ed us and completely wasted 2 years.
 
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