List Mgmt. Trade Hypotheticals (opposition posters post here)

[PhatHQ]

Whitfield is under contract and recently publicly declared he wants to be here for life. I'd reckon that's close to ungettable.

A mid first rounder for Hopper appears around the mark.

Buddy said he wanted to stay a HawK & that didn't work out to well for us... except another two premierships after he helped with the first 2

My guy is and always been Hopper from his draft year. I love the way he goes about it when he's in form & fit.
Whitfield would be a luxury to replace Hill & cover for Smith in a couple of years.

 

[Colonial]

I love how people think we are Kmart....

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[Determinant]

Buddy said he wanted to stay a HawK & that didn't work out to well for us... except another two premierships after he helped with the first 2

My guy is and always been Hopper from his draft year. I love the way he goes about it when he's in form & fit.
Whitfield would be a luxury to replace Hill & cover for Smith in a couple of years.

It's cute that you think Hopper is better than Whifield tbh

As for intent, stated pretty clearly here, suggest focusing on Hopper.

[URL="https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/giants-in-the-media.887469/page-40#post-50852668"]Giants in the Media[/URL]

 

[_GT_]

Buddy said he wanted to stay a HawK & that didn't work out to well for us... except another two premierships after he helped with the first 2

My guy is and always been Hopper from his draft year. I love the way he goes about it when he's in form & fit.
Whitfield would be a luxury to replace Hill & cover for Smith in a couple of years.

You are under rating Whitfield. He is a superior player to your nominated comparison. He is under contract and not a want away. You can't just ignore those facts in credible hypothetical.

 

[Giant Strides]

PhatHQ has held a torch for Lachie for some time now - which shows he is at least a good judge of a player. But I agree that the comparison vastly underappreciates Lachie's value to our team, although you'd have to expect that what Lachie brings to GWS is exactly what PhatHQ wants brought (back) to Hawks. Value is in the eye of the beholder, and Lachie sparkles for GWS. I suspect that this will be a story of unrequited love for PhatHQ.

Hopper on the other hand is a different story. No strong statements that he loves GWS or wants to stay, and OOC. I suspect that he is just a little bit more insular and unemotional about things, so probably would accept a change that was best for him. Or stay if the $ and intent for him are right. The former may align with the stories about wanting to play in the 'footy bubble of Melbourne' (although I largely treat those sorts of stories as akin to throwing darts at a dartboard and hoping to hit the bullseye.)

The problem for GWS will be both the trade value received, and which year. Trading for the future is fraught with the danger that the receiving team gets the player before they pay, subsequently improves, and hence pays less due to higher ladder position. As well, what GWS will accept would depend on how many players leave and the need to replace them this year - without any traded in picks (on top of our first round penalty & traded out second & third rounders) and the general thinness & lack of quality in this years draft. In other words, if GWS traded Lachie for a second round pick, Hopper for a future & Dev Smith for a future pick, we would lose 3 first team regulars who were first round picks ... without replacement in anywhere near that quality. I'd be staggered if the list manager was prepared to do that. Even omitting Lachie (because I think he's no chance of leaving), I'd be surprised if we did that. However, it does depend on which club you trade with and what they have on offer in the first place, as well as what they're willing to trade.

 

[PhatHQ]

PhatHQ has held a torch for Lachie for some time now - which shows he is at least a good judge of a player. But I agree that the comparison vastly underappreciates Lachie's value to our team, although you'd have to expect that what Lachie brings to GWS is exactly what PhatHQ wants brought (back) to Hawks. Value is in the eye of the beholder, and Lachie sparkles for GWS. I suspect that this will be a story of unrequited love for PhatHQ.

Hopper on the other hand is a different story. No strong statements that he loves GWS or wants to stay, and OOC. I suspect that he is just a little bit more insular and unemotional about things, so probably would accept a change that was best for him. Or stay if the $ and intent for him are right. The former may align with the stories about wanting to play in the 'footy bubble of Melbourne' (although I largely treat those sorts of stories as akin to throwing darts at a dartboard and hoping to hit the bullseye.)

The problem for GWS will be both the trade value received, and which year. Trading for the future is fraught with the danger that the receiving team gets the player before they pay, subsequently improves, and hence pays less due to higher ladder position. As well, what GWS will accept would depend on how many players leave and the need to replace them this year - without any traded in picks (on top of our first round penalty & traded out second & third rounders) and the general thinness & lack of quality in this years draft. In other words, if GWS traded Lachie for a second round pick, Hopper for a future & Dev Smith for a future pick, we would lose 3 first team regulars who were first round picks ... without replacement in anywhere near that quality. I'd be staggered if the list manager was prepared to do that. Even omitting Lachie (because I think he's no chance of leaving), I'd be surprised if we did that. However, it does depend on which club you trade with and what they have on offer in the first place, as well as what they're willing to trade.

Thanks for the back up there mate.
& you are bang on with your assessment of my assessment of both players & where I think something could be done
If it doesn't that's cool. I will still get tho see them both play when I go to watch the Giants anyway.

 

[Ichabod Noodle]

I'm guessing that the entire GWS has been picked apart by now

I have been on about the Hawks going after Hopper & Whitfield for a while with little support as Fyfe, Dusty, Rockliff & Kelly are all the talk.

What I propose makes the most sense for the Hawks list going forward to me & probably a much easier list management perspective for long term deals.

So here goes....

On the premis that we got Mitchell for pick 14 I would consider a future first enough to secure Hopper & get him on a contract somewhere around, but less than Mitchell. He is exactly the grunt mid we need to play big minutes on the ball as the clearance specialist to free up O'mera & Mitchell as better outside players.

Looking at Whitfield, Hill was traded for pick 23 & it wouldn't be unreasonable to think of that as the range for trade. GWS would want more I feel but I don't see how much more would be required as both Hill & Whitfield are very similar.

Player movement to secure the pick needed shouldn't be a problem for the Hawks with GWS to show little interest in the players available.

So there it is....

Hopper for a future first that could be a top 10 pick & Whitfield for late first/early second, possibly a kicker in there somewhere if they don't nominate.

Not unrealistic considering the two players as a trade example.

#hopperisthetarget

Love the quote in the latest article where Whitfield thinks he might move back to melbourne when he's 35/40 years old.

Good luck trading for a 40 year old in 18 years time. Long time to wait. your commitment to him is admirable.

 

[JC100]

This season Whitfield has started to show why he was taken at 1. Finding more of the footy as well as showing a vastly improved ability to win his own ball.

His trade value is far closer to Kelly than it is too Hill


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[Vindicater]

If Essendon move up the ladder abit and end up with a mid first ound pick (8-12). Would that be fair for Hopper?

Really like his fit with the other young talent we have.

 

[Danny88]

If Essendon move up the ladder abit and end up with a mid first ound pick (8-12). Would that be fair for Hopper?

Really like his fit with the other young talent we have.

Price seems right but im not sure he would agree unless some of your other inside mids move on. he isnt going to move from a team highly competitive for inside mid spots to another team with the same issue.

 

[Ellie Aquitaine]

Price seems right but im not sure he would agree unless some of your other inside mids move on. he isnt going to move from a team highly competitive for inside mid spots to another team with the same issue.

Particularly if he's seen what happened to Jack Steele at St Kilda this year.

 

[Zach Package]

Price seems right but im not sure he would agree unless some of your other inside mids move on. he isnt going to move from a team highly competitive for inside mid spots to another team with the same issue.

Non issue, our inside mids are a massive weakness for us. Provided he gets a full pre season in and everything goes well he 100% plays round 1 next year for us if we get him.

 

[Bokonon_]

Non issue, our inside mids are a massive weakness for us. Provided he gets a full pre season in and everything goes well he 100% plays round 1 next year for us if we get him.

His wishes will decide I think. Pick is fair

 

[Giant Strides]

I'd be happy if Essendon went down the ladder rather than up & Hopper wanted to join them ...

 

[Yoda_]

Forget the Hopper talk for a minute

How are the big fella's going?

Been following both Zach Sproule and Matt Flynn via their inside football rankings/sheets and both have shown some very, very good signs this year. Sproule touted to take over Mumford with Lobb a capable #2 or the other way round? Like Flynn's ability to win the ball around the ground for a big fella.

Would happily take either for a 3rd/4th rounder and give us cover in a position we will need to address sooner rather than later (TBC is 27, Lleunberger is 30, Draper is a kid, McKernan is a 27 yo tweener).

 

[Ichabod Noodle]

Forget the Hopper talk for a minute

How are the big fella's going?

Been following both Zach Sproule and Matt Flynn via their inside football rankings/sheets and both have shown some very, very good signs this year. Sproule touted to take over Mumford with Lobb a capable #2 or the other way round? Like Flynn's ability to win the ball around the ground for a big fella.

Would happily take either for a 3rd/4th rounder and give us cover in a position we will need to address sooner rather than later (TBC is 27, Lleunberger is 30, Draper is a kid, McKernan is a 27 yo tweener).

Sproule is a forward, not a ruckman, and only a Cat B rookie - not sure of the trading rules on them. It's Flynn who will take over from Mummy, and as such, we need to keep him.

 

[coniglio_number1]

Forget the Hopper talk for a minute

How are the big fella's going?

Been following both Zach Sproule and Matt Flynn via their inside football rankings/sheets and both have shown some very, very good signs this year. Sproule touted to take over Mumford with Lobb a capable #2 or the other way round? Like Flynn's ability to win the ball around the ground for a big fella.

Would happily take either for a 3rd/4th rounder and give us cover in a position we will need to address sooner rather than later (TBC is 27, Lleunberger is 30, Draper is a kid, McKernan is a 27 yo tweener).

I think if your club actually wanted Sproule then they would've taken him with pick 108 or something

 

[Giant Strides]

Both Flynn & Sproule progressing nicely. Flynn in tandem with Lobb in future will be GWS' ruck/forward set up - as such worth much more than 3rd/4th round pick. Sproule has showen a bit IMHO & I can see GWS upgrading him to the main list at some point, more likely next year but perhaps this year depending on what happens with others in the list. However, as a rookie, obviously quite gettable if $/main list carrot were dangled. Hopefully not though.

 

[Orange Agent]

Sproule is worth a first rounder at the rate he is tracking. 17 clubs missed out big time with him.

 

[LUKE 79]

Just a quick one,Whats Griffen on and is he in your best 22 as of next year.

 

[Colonial]

Just a quick one,Whats Griffen on and is he in your best 22 as of next year.

We havent finished this year yet.

But really unless something drastic happens no he wont be.

He would be on a very small wage as he was massively front loaded so the dogs could pay most of it year 1 as far as im aware

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[LUKE 79]

Would a first round pick from Essendon around pick 7 to 9 be of intrest,Little salary cap relief in taking Griffen and Hopper.Would suit our needs with Watson hanging up the boots at years end.

 

[Danny88]

Would a first round pick from Essendon around pick 7 to 9 be of intrest,Little salary cap relief in taking Griffen and Hopper.Would suit our needs with Watson hanging up the boots at years end.

No I wouldn't have thought so,it's not in our interest to shop players around. It's hard enough to keep players up here without that reputation. Griff would need to choose that and I can't see it happening

 

[Giant Pete]

People won't like this suggestion but I think we should trade Dev. It sounds like he will head home at some point anyway.

If we trade him we should get a late first rounder. We need to start slowly breaking up the huge amount of 24 year olds we have.
I think he doesn't bring as much to our performance as others. He never takes contested grabs, so he only plays small. When was the last time you saw him crumb a goal from front and centre? Essentially he's a midfielder playing forward. He doesn't have a good tank.

He's been great for the Giants but if the opportunity is there and he's happy to move back home I think we should be taking advantage of it.

 

[Bokonon_]

People won't like this suggestion but I think we should trade Dev. It sounds like he will head home at some point anyway.

If we trade him we should get a late first rounder. We need to start slowly breaking up the huge amount of 24 year olds we have.
I think he doesn't bring as much to our performance as others. He never takes contested grabs, so he only plays small. When was the last time you saw him crumb a goal from front and centre? Essentially he's a midfielder playing forward. He doesn't have a good tank.

He's been great for the Giants but if the opportunity is there and he's happy to move back home I think we should be taking advantage of it.

Where in his statement that he wants to resign did you get it looks like he will leave?
He an outside mid who plays mostly as a running half forward flanker, he's never really been a crumber.
For a great field kick his goal kicking isn't great, he's in a similar boat as Wilson with that and both need to improve.
His primary role is to link and feed the goalkickers and he's brilliant at it. As he plays more games I think his value will be seen in improved efficiency in kicking goals.
It's all opinion and your entitked to yours but this is mine.