Trade period / National Draft 2024

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[Dr Tigris]

AFL trade and free agency news: Cautionary tales Tigers must heed ahead of list upheaval​

Five times over the past two decades clubs have been faced with the choice to blow the list up as part of a rebuild. JOSH BARNES unpacks what lessons the Tigers can take as they face tough choices on five big names.
Josh Barnes and The Barnestormer

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How hard can you go when you push the button to blow it up?
It is a question that has haunted list managers for decades as they weigh up how deep to cut a fading list.
Richmond is walking towards that precipice right now.
If the tea leaves are to be believed, Richmond could see all these flag winners go in just a few months.
Jack Graham could leave as a free agent, Liam Baker may follow him west, Dustin Martin might be limping towards the end of his legendary stroll down Punt Road, Daniel Rioli could be tempted by the Gold Coast sun, and Shai Bolton may push to be another Tiger playing in Perth.
If they did clean out their lockers, those five would walk out of Richmond carrying 12 premiership medals.

Could Liam Baker depart the Tigers this off-season despite captaining the club last week? Picture: Michael Willson/AFL Photos via Getty Images.

West Coast is rumoured to be interested in Jack Graham. Picture: Darrian Traynor/AFL Photos/via Getty Images.
In this modern era, fans are less tied to their premiership servants and always looking at the shiny potential of draft picks.
Graham’s value as a 26-year-old would likely be a second-round pick as compensation.
Martin’s compensation likely wouldn’t reach that height.
In trades, Baker is probably worth a mid-first, Rioli could be two firsts and Bolton’s long and weighty contract weighs even more than that on the scales.
Is 12 premierships worth six picks inside the top 30?
It would be a very nice starting point to the proper rebuild for new recruiting boss Chris Toce, given the only players on Richmond’s list the Tigers drafted themselves before pick No. 15 are Nick Vlastuin and Josh Gibcus.
The unique position Richmond finds itself in here is that it holds four players of genuine value, plus an all-time great in Martin.

Will Dustin Martin play on again next season? If so, in whose colours? Picture: Daniel Pockett/Getty Images.
Teams that have cut deep in the past have often done it by axing veterans or moving on youngsters who haven’t quite cut it yet.
North Melbourne did both, cutting the vets in 2016 and culling the list cloggers by axing 11 players in one day in 2020.
Neither secured a quick bounce but also neither of the moves brought any value back to the club, unlike the bevy of potential draft options the Tigers could secure.
By getting this many swings, the Tigers would put themselves in a similar position to the Hawks of the early 2000s, when they drafted Jarryd Roughead, Lance Franklin and Jordan Lewis together in the first half-hour of the 2004 draft and built a dynasty.
Within three seasons, those Hawks were winning finals and within four they had a flag.
What is also unique about Richmond’s situation is that those players potentially on the way out would mostly be part of that potential flag side in 2030.

Daniel Rioli could still be on Richmond’s list in 2030 if he doesn’t seek a new home. Picture: Josh Chadwick/Getty Images.
Baker would be the oldest of the crew, aged 32 then.
Losing so much prime talent means the Tigers will have surely given up on trying to remain in the finals hunt, a plan outgoing CEO Brendon Gale has stuck to in recent years.
Losing that much proven talent at the peak of their powers has never worked out, with Brisbane’s ‘go home five’ ripping potential from the Lions and sending them to the bottom.
While the Tigers will still have plenty of experienced talent on their list, losing players who have been there before can only hurt whoever is drafted into the club.
Richmond assistant Jack Ziebell had to be one of the few experienced heads at North Melbourne in his final playing years and recognises how important it is to have veterans around to fast-track young players.
“It is critical, they are like on-field coaches. I look at guys like Dion Prestia, Jacob Hopper and Tim Taranto, who have all missed chunks of footy this year,” he said.
“One, we would love them out there because they are guns. But two, their ability to help instruct and teach kids on the field in real life and teach them is second to none.

Fremantle is rumoured Shai Bolton of the Richmond Tigers in action. Picture: Mark Stewart
“I know the young guys absolutely eat it up and the young guys get a thrill out of it as well.”
History isn’t kind to clubs that tear it all down following the mantra of moving on players who aren’t in the next premiership side.
Melbourne and Carlton both went through rebuilds over and over for virtually 15 years before both finally hit an upswing, with the Demons eventually claiming the silverware in 2021.
The only reliable constant you can find in histories of blowing up a playing list in footy is you are destined for a long time losing.
Perhaps Richmond fans are ready for that and having watched them savour in three flags, opposition fans may agree the Tigers deserve a slow rebuild.
Hawthorn has shown you can bounce back quicker than expected.
But if the Tigers do move on most of their five players, it surely consigns the club to a long time in the cellar.
Here’s five examples of blow-it-up moments from clubs that either worked, or didn’t, and how they apply to the Tigers.
Top Performers
Shai Bolton
28
goals

Daniel Rioli
449
disposals

Nick Vlastuin
125
marks

Toby Nankervis
97
tackles

THE CROAD SWINDLE​

The gold standard of moving a prime player for draft capital was Hawthorn’s shock call to trade Trent Croad to Fremantle in 2001.
The trade netted the No. 1 pick, used on three-time premiership captain Luke Hodge, pick 20 (Daniel Elstone) and the 36th pick, used on another premiership captain Sam Mitchell.
Of course, Croad returned to the Hawks only a couple of seasons later and played in the 2008 premiership.
The Hawks went into this 2001 trade knowing their fans might not like it – some in brown and gold started a ‘Keep Croad’ club – but they wanted to snag a 15-year star and knew Croad was the collateral for that.

Trent Croad in 2009, after winning the 2008 premiership with Hawthorn.
The lesson for the Tigers here is pretty obvious: if you can trade a player in his early prime for the first pick in possibly the best draft of all time, go for it.
It doesn’t look like any of their post-season moves are that cut and dry and while draft watchers rate the year’s crop as deep, it isn’t in the stratosphere of 2001.
And the other key thing is by the time Croad came back, the Hawks still had a deep veteran core of the likes of Shane Crawford, Richie Vandenberg, Nick Holland and Peter Everitt in place to help draftees learn the caper.

GO HOME FIVE​

You can never forget that the Lions, basking in stars keen to play in Queensland, once seemingly couldn’t keep anyone at the club.
None of these were Brisbane’s decision to trade out but dubbed the ‘go home five’, Sam Docherty, Elliot Yeo, Jared Polec, Billy Longer and Patrick Karnezis all rushed out of the club in 2013.

Elliot Yeo, Patrick Wearden, Billy Longer, and Sam Docherty in 2011 after being drafted by the Brisbane Lions. Picture: Nathan Richter
The Lions basically got back Darcy Gardiner, Dan McStay, Lewis Taylor, Tom Cutler, Nick Robertson, Jackson Paine and Trent West in the subsequent trades and drafting.
Gardiner has been a very serviceable defender and McStay provided value before going to Collingwood, but there was little bang for buck here for the Lions.
With a handful of young core players ripped out, the Lions finished in the bottom three in each of the next five seasons and it took draft after draft to build what is now a perennial contender.
The question is yours Richmond fans: is that half-decade of pain worth it?

POWER’S QUICK DIP​

In a blueprint for how to drop and bounce quickly, Port Adelaide finished 2018 in 10th and that off-season traded out Jared Polec, Jasper Pittard, Jack Hombsch and Chad Wingard.
The sale brought in Ryan Burton and draft capital that allowed the Power to scoop up Zak Butters, Connor Rozee and Xavier Duursma all in the top 18.
Instantly, Port Adelaide picked up two midfielders that will be locked into the team until the 2030s and soon became premiership contenders again.

Connor Rozee has become on the Power’s most important player. Picture: Sarah Reed/AFL Photos via Getty Images.

The Power brought in Zak Butters after a clean-out in 2018. Picture: Michael Willson/AFL Photos via Getty Images.
Wingard is the only player of the quality of the Richmond players potentially for sale – although Polec’s value was higher than you remember at the time.
Is a bounce available that quickly if the Tigers get their remaining veterans right?
It appears right now there are too many holes in the Richmond list, but things obviously look different if Tom Lynch, Gibcus and Dion Prestia are fit for a full year.

EAGLES HOLD FIRE​

It was pretty plain to see by the end of 2022 that West Coast’s run as a contender was well over.
But the Eagles made one solitary trade in 2022 – getting involved in the mega Jason Horne-Francis deal by sending out wantaway Willie Rioli.
Last off-season, the Eagles traded in Tyler Brockman and made a minor pick swap with Richmond.
This is the stand-pat example.

Should West Coast have moved Andrew Gaff on at the end of last year? Picture: Daniel Carson/AFL Photos via Getty Images.

Does premiership hero Dom Sheed have a future at the Eagles? Picture: Daniel Carson/AFL Photos via Getty Images.
There was interest in Tom Barras and Liam Ryan last off-season but the Eagles held firm and publicly hosed down speculation they could look to move Jack Darling.
Now Darling has no value, and veterans like Andrew Gaff and Dom Sheed are worth less to opposition clubs.
Their coaching job is so poisonous no highly rated assistant coach seems interested and Harley Reid and Oscar Allen are they only serious building blocks of a premiership side come 2030.
The Tigers may be forced to make more moves this off-season thanks to players pushing their way out but clearly standing still here for West Coast didn’t work.

SCOTT’S ROO CULL​

It was the mother of all axe swings.
Brent Harvey, Drew Petrie, Michael Firrito and Nick Dal Santo were all not offered contracts at the end of 2016.
Daniel Wells left in free agency and veteran Farren Ray was also cut.
On the surface, these all appeared reasonable moves for a club that had fallen out of a window that had included two preliminary finals and held the oldest list in the league.

North Melbourne players Drew Petrie, Brent Harvey, Nick Dal Santo and Michael Firrito walk from the field after their final game in 2016. Picture Sarah Reed
In 2017, the Roos were suddenly the second youngest list and starting with that year, they have finished 15th, ninth, 12th, 17th, 18th, 18th, 17th, with another bottom two finish looking likely.
The lesson from this example is to try and fade out veterans and keep more experience around.
Because most of those names were retiring, the Roos got nothing but cap space and list spots for their departure, whereas the Tigers conundrum is based on whether they cash in now.

So he couldn't find an exact equivalent to what we face thus year.
We can bring in an expansion team's draft haul with an solid established squad. That is unprecedented.

The possibility is that we can start with a team that, if fit and in form and playing a good game style, would be a shot at the top 8 (not the premiership though). And add to that a large group of very talented draftees, and we should be able to get more 1st and 2nd round players in the next few years.

That is totally unique. Exciting and scary.

 

[Morro]

So he couldn't find an exact equivalent to what we face thus year.
We can bring in an expansion team's draft haul with an solid established squad. That is unprecedented.

The possibility is that we can start with a team that, if fit and in form and playing a good game style, would be a shot at the top 8 (not the premiership though). And add to that a large group of very talented draftees, and we should be able to get more 1st and 2nd round players in the next few years.

That is totally unique. Exciting and scary.

Exactly, never been done before.

 

[noobermensch]

Harry Armstrong is building a strong case to be the first key forward to have his name read out on draft night. Here we see his first game back in the Talent League after an injury layoff and a break to play school footy. Not a prolific outing possession wise, but he showed how dangerous he can be with the opportunities that come his way slotting 4 goals including the game winner on the siren after a typical demonstration of his lead/mark craft.

 

[Bird Man]

Sid Draper is my number one pick . I think he’s got all the tools to be elite . Strong, explosive, kicks a goal and not scared to take the game on.

Sid Draper: SANFL exploits could crown SA's next pick 1

Sid Draper has had to overcome injury and adversity in his top age season, but he's done it with aplomb and is back to playing footy with a vengence. It's why he's in the running to be South Australia's next No. 1 draft pick, writes Jasper Chellappah.

www.espn.com.au

my fear is that if he is a gun and we are bad for the next few years he will request a trade to crows or port who are ahead of us in development

 

[Dr Tigris]

Jagga looks to me very Vanilla, ESPECIALLY for pick Number 1. I only get Fiorini type vibes..

On footage alone, he looks half as good as Draper who is explosives, or Smillie who has the potential to be a game breaker.
You can pick up a Jagga anywhere in the draft, in they learn to accumulate with fitness.

Unless FOS explodes between now and November, I would be hoping the choice is between Draper and Smillie.

Jagga is the kind of player who makes the team around him go to another level. On his own he doesn't do much. Add in good mids around him and he can turbo charge them.

I absolutely would love him early if we can get about 2/3 more first round mids. Jagga is the kind of player who comes around rarely. Super high end accumulator who feeds the ball out very well.

On his own I probably wouldn't go Jagga, as he isn't the core player in a midfield. But if we can build an entire midfield this year and next, with top end talent, then he is a perfect fit to the group.

 

[Mr Magic]

Interesting article above.

Hard to compare Hawks 2001 as they made a PF before trading for pick 1.

Brisbane lost 5 kids for less value than they paid. Unless we trade and have 8 top 25 picks and use them all on interstate kids it's hard to compare and not really relevant.

Power only came 10th not last in 2018. The trading out and getting 3 good kids in fits but their base isn't as low so they bounced far quicker than we can. (I think injury free we are more 14th/15th but don't see Lynch being injury free again)

WC is what we can so sit tight and see what happens. I think that's an absolute certainty to take 5 years just to get the talent in. They're at 3 and have Reid & Ginbey

The North equivalent is us keeping the 4 guys rumoured to leave and then not offering contracts to Lynch, Dusty, Prestia, Nank, McIntosh, Broad and replacing them with 4th, 5th, 6th round picks and then in a few years time delist 10 players and replace with our natural 1st or 2nd pick in every round.

I think the 2 options we have are a more aggressive Port one from a lower base or the Eagles one.

why would we be replacing anyone with 4, 5th,6th round picks?

 

[tiger_tough]

Jagga is the kind of player who makes the team around him go to another level. On his own he doesn't do much. Add in good mids around him and he can turbo charge them.

I absolutely would love him early if we can get about 2/3 more first round mids. Jagga is the kind of player who comes around rarely. Super high end accumulator who feeds the ball out very well.

On his own I probably wouldn't go Jagga, as he isn't the core player in a midfield. But if we can build an entire midfield this year and next, with top end talent, then he is a perfect fit to the group.

My thoughts too.

 

[strauchy]

Except Dow isn't even an accumulator and he's never dominated a game in his life.

Well said.

Dow is an ok VFL player at best.

 

[Dr Tigris]

Well said.

Dow is an ok VFL player at best.

Dow is OK as the third/fourth mid. He's a decent depth player.

I reckon he'd be good to have around if we have a lot of young mids. Protect them and assist their development.

Not a long term guy if we get a solid group of high end mids.

 

[tigs2010]

Harry Armstrong is building a strong case to be the first key forward to have his name read out on draft night. Here we see his first game back in the Talent League after an injury layoff and a break to play school footy. Not a prolific outing possession wise, but he showed how dangerous he can be with the opportunities that come his way slotting 4 goals including the game winner on the siren after a typical demonstration of his lead/mark craft.

Ice in his veins. Watched this game a while back actually. Not afraid to tackle, took a good mark for his first.

For anyone who watches, #68 that tries to take the hanger on the shot that lands short in the second is Ludowyke.

 

[Erakor]

I only really watch the highlights, which is obviously limited, but my pick 1 would be Josh Smillie.

He had just ok game in the metro/country game, but did spend a lot more game time forward and not mid.

 

[Finn9]

Ice in his veins. Watched this game a while back actually. Not afraid to tackle, took a good mark for his first.

For anyone who watches, #68 that tries to take the hanger on the shot that lands short in the second is Ludowyke.

Can't wait to have both Armstrong and Ludowyke

 

[Finn9]

Finn O'Sullivan #9 & Sam Lalor #36

lets get silly

 

[Charlie Pannam]

Travaglia is the most underrated/improved of all CTL kids. Can’t understand why he’s not seen as top 5. Armstrong or Travaglia with a Rioli trade pick would make me happy. Armstrong because we need a KPF and Travaglia instant running half back with good skill, speed, disposal and a gun mark for his size. As stated by others, he’s also gunned it as midfielder. I declared he was top 5 earlier and I’ve seen nothing that has changed my mind.

I think you’re on the money.
In what’s going to be a very even draft, he has the skill set that stands out from so many others
He can win his own ball and run/carry. Genuine 80m player

 

[Stylo]

You can pick up a Jagga anywhere in the draft

Jagga is the kind of player who comes around rarely.

The duality of man

 

[Morro]

well well well, its getting real now,

Going to be real hard to fit the top 18 players in the draft into a lame 14 first rounders We simply must find a way to get another 4 first rounders, who else can he trade?

 

[Bojangles17]

Exactly, never been done before.

Closest but prob only half of what we ll do Is port in 2018 , acquired Rozee butters and another escapes me

 

[Morro]

Closest but prob only half of what we ll do Is port in 2018 , acquired Rozee butters and another escapes me

Duursma who looked so good early on.

 

[Bojangles17]

So he couldn't find an exact equivalent to what we face thus year.
We can bring in an expansion team's draft haul with an solid established squad. That is unprecedented.

The possibility is that we can start with a team that, if fit and in form and playing a good game style, would be a shot at the top 8 (not the premiership though). And add to that a large group of very talented draftees, and we should be able to get more 1st and 2nd round players in the next few years.

That is totally unique. Exciting and scary.

With exception of pa , most of those sides culled senior players and attempted to rebuild with 1 x r123, of course that’ll take yonks , get 7-10 r1 on list over 2y and look out

 

[Tigerturbulance]

**** off name one

I've been told you can **** off one at ChateauVino or more if you like

 

[_RT_]

From the TAC Cup to the NAB League and now the Coates Talent League, Nick Cox has seen a lot of Under 18 football, as a parent, as an assistant coach and now head coach.
The Dandenong Stingrays mentor says that what he’s seen from Cooper Hynes this year has been exceptional.

“I’ll tell you something. He’s putting together one of the great seasons in this competition,’’ Cox declares.

“There have been matches where he’s had 25 to 30 possessions and kicked four or five goals. In my time, I can’t remember a player dominating games of footy at our level like he has.’’

Noting the numbers from Hynes’ 11 outings for the Rays this season – 19 goals and an average of 26 possessions – he says the 190cm Bonbeach product has yet to play a bad game.

On the days he hasn’t been in the best, he’s still found a way to contribute; a goal here, a clearance there, a contested mark here, a tackle there. On the days he has been best-afield, he’s taken hold of teams: 32 disposals and a goal against the Rebels, 23 disposals and five goals against the Suns Academy, 27 and four against the Lions, 35 and one against the Rebels, 27 and three against the Chargers. He was at it again on Saturday, with 28 touches and three goals against Murray.

Cox sees a player who “plays the same wherever he goes, turns up and just grinds away and does some unbelievable stuff’’.

It was the same in the national championships for 18-year-old Hynes, the son of former Frankston VFL captain and Carlton defender Johnny. Although he missed All-Australian selection, the Stingrays co-captain was a worthy player in his four matches for Vic Country, setting off with 20 possessions and two goals against WA.

Cox assessed his carnival as “solid’’. Hynes thought it was “pretty good’’.

“I think the WA game was the best I played. Throughout every game I was able to show what I could do,’’ he says.

He says it was “awesome’’ to travel to Perth and Brisbane with the squad, mingle with his teammates and coaches, and help Country through to the final, where it lost to Vic Metro in contentious circumstances. Hynes says the game was “super quick from the start’’.

“It was the quickest game of footy I’ve ever played in, definitely.

“The heat was on both teams, with the contest and pressure stuff, just the skill and the tempo. Pretty cool to be a part of that. Shame it had to end like that (with a dubious 50m penalty to Metro), but that’s all right.’’

Just as Cox and Stingrays talent manager Toby Jedwab talk up Hynes’ form this year, they enthuse about his improved fitness.

“He needed to fix up his conditioning a little bit,’’ the coach says.

“Being that bigger and stronger kid, he had to get to work on it. Like a lot of them at his age, he didn’t know how to train at elite standards. Credit to the boy, he has fixed it up. Been outstanding.’’

Hynes recalls one or two “honest conversations’’ with Cox about what he wanted to achieve and what he needed to do to make it happen.

“That (fitness) was part of it, changing my body shape,’’ he says.

“’Coxy’ has been big for me. I came in at the Under 16s, pretty unfit and sort of floating around and potentially miles off it, but he saw the potential in me and encouraged me to work as hard as I can. He’s backed me every day.’’

Hynes played his first Under 18 match for the Stingrays at age 16 in 2022. It opened his eyes to the level: “I didn’t get near it, and it showed me where I needed to be.’’

Last year Hynes had 13 matches and, to use a Cox catchphrase, quite a few more “good moments’’, as a forward and midfielder.

He’s had the same role for his teams this year. The split was 60 forward-40 mid for Vic Country but it’s has been more 60 mid-40 forward for the Stingrays. The Rays coaches would like two of him.

Which position does he prefer?

“Tough question. I worked on my fitness so I could play midfield more and this year I’m loving getting my hands on it more,’’ Hynes says.

“I’m pretty comfortable with both. I don’t think there’s much in it. If I had to choose one … maybe deep forward. I feel pretty dangerous.’’

After the nationals, Cox was of a mind to rest Hynes and fellow Vic Country rep Harvey Langford, but both insisted they should play. That was in line with Hynes’ wish to “keep the standards up around the group’’.

He wanted to lead from the front, not from the grandstand.

“Three games and finals to go. We’re going pretty well. I’m focused on what I can do to help us win. If we can go deep in finals, that would be pretty cool.’’

Hynes attends the Rowville Sports Academy, overseen by former Essendon star Darren Bewick.

He began going there in Year 10, when he decided to start taking his football more seriously. Having also coached Eastern Ranges, Bewick is a good sounding board for Hynes.

His father, of course, has had a strong influence on his football. Before every game his son plays, Johnny Hynes has a butterfly fluttering in his stomach. But he’s careful not to drum his boy’s ears with too much talk, leaving it to Cox.

Hynes’ eldest son, Flynn, also had a run with the Stingrays and is now with Bonbeach.

​

“He was stressing out about how I’d go at the champs,’’ Cooper Hynes says of his father. “Him and mum get a bit nervous. But I’m normally pretty good, pretty cruisy with it all. I just go out and play.’’

And invariably he plays well.

CODE Sports

CODE Sports

www.codesports.com.au

 

[TJTIGER]

Finn O interestingly is cousin of Sam Walsh

18

Sam Walsh

Age

24

Ht

184cm

Wt

84kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

25.1

5star

K

13.5

5star

HB

11.6

5star

M

5.1

5star

T

3.2

5star

CL

3.4

5star

No current season stats available

D

26.2

5star

K

15.4

5star

HB

10.8

5star

M

6.0

5star

T

3.2

5star

CL

4.8

5star

. Sounds a bit like a Luke Hodge type….

 

[GoTigers2015]

Broad LOL

 

[Mr Magic]

If we traded a number of players out they would know it was not personal, Dusty just retired the competition has moved for the short term and we are basically resetting our strategy, no one would be forced out but if they are looking for premierships in the next 2-3 years why would the club not give these players our blessings as well as better prospects for the careers if they are looking in the short term? It would not be a singular pointy decision. Personally if a player left in these circumstances I would not boo them and if I ran into them in a pub I would buy them a beer, if a premiership player in particular

 

[Mr Magic]

Broad LOL

Broad is underrated. He is not a superstar but he is a great glue player and he has a rare combination of mobility, can hit a target and defend doing it neatly and reliably which is what you want in the backline. Unheralded I reckon but I have seen even some fox commentators rate him, he is a taller player that plays well like a small and defends.

Other clubs are not stupid, they know he is a good player, not Tom Stewart, but come from nowwhere and proven to be a champion. How many better 192cm backman are there in the AFL?? Broad does not go in the midfield like Tom Stewart, but as a defender he would be just as mobile and Stewart is 190cm

It is interesting, Broad can run and carry but he players as a defender, he sort of is the type of guy that helps plenty of other defenders play as attacking defenders because Broad provides the type of defensive coverage with mobility to allow others do there thing. I bet Dimma rates him. He would have learnt a lot of Grimes one would imagine

I bet a lot of clubs looking to fine tune premiership tilts would chase Broad because not many have and can do what he does as a piece in their defensive puzzle. I have no club in mind but Broad caught tighten a clubs defence and release a more attacking player they may have up the ground possibly for example to improve their dynamic.

I am not thinking of a specific role but Broad would improve Port Adelaides defence, Western Bulldogs defence and probably even Freo's defence who are a little top heavy I think, without thinking about other clubs and their players. If Broad went to Geelong does that many Stewart plays more in the midfield?? Like with Lobb a player here and there that can do their job can make a big difference to a dynamic. Not many are like Broad because he is not a key defender but as a in-between defender he does his job very well