Trade Week Rumours!

[Butane]

Not necessarily....i think Ray + 2nd rounder for Kosi is a fair deal. Leaving our first rounder for Cordy.

I don't think we'll get Kosi for pick 30 + Ray.

 

[KouDogg]

I don't think we'll get Kosi for pick 30 + Ray.

Chuck in a 4th rounder as well??

Oh, who noes, lets just leave it for the to club decide on what its worth to give up for which ever player we go for.

Everyone here has different perspectives on players, and this will be the same for the board during trade week. So its hard to make any judgments.

 

[acker]

Not necessarily....i think Ray + 2nd rounder for Kosi is a fair deal. Leaving our first rounder for Cordy.

Far to expensive for a player who has never realy proved himself like Koschitske.

And he is 4 years older than Farren.

No.

 

[Dogs Rule]

But to get Kosi, we would most likely have to give up on Cordy, there's no way the Saints wouldn't want at least one first rounder for Kosi.

The Hawks would want a first round pick or an Everitt or Higgins for Thorp.

Boyle may cost us a second rounder, Campbell most likely a 3rd rounder.

Higgins isn't going anywhere. Clubs can ask for him, but they won't get him.

 

[Poptart]

Higgins isn't going anywhere. Clubs can ask for him, but they won't get him.

Didn't the Hawks want our pick 5 OR Higgins for Boyle last year? That was the rumour going around, and if true, the Hawks will be a club NOT TO trade with, and one would imagine that Thorp is rated higher than Boyle.

 

[Dogs Rule]

Didn't the Hawks want our pick 5 OR Higgins for Boyle last year? That was the rumour going around, and if true, the Hawks will be a club NOT TO trade with, and one would imagine that Thorp is rated higher than Boyle.

Frightening. Absolutely frightening.

 

[The Boy From Brasil]

There hasn't been too many delisted or unwanted players that havn't been linked with us. I have my fingers crossed that we will either pick up someone really good or just stick with the drafting process. Picking up duds is a really sour way to end the season.

 

[X_box_X]

Makes me sick the way Hawthorn overrate their players.

Higgins is a future leader of our club, IMO, and one of the few first round draft selections that Clayton has got correct.

 

[Dogs 13]

Makes me sick the way Hawthorn overrate their players.

Higgins is a future leader of our club, IMO, and one of the few first round draft selections that Clayton has got correct.

I wouldn't deal with the Hawks either. Remember their dealings with North for Hay and Thompson. Then again Rocket rarely gets shafted.

Anyway no to Boyle from me (even if his dad did play for us), but Thorp would be of interest at the correct price.

Because of our need for a tall forward managers will use us to try to up their client's price or negotiating position (Robertson last year).

 

[Dogs Rule]

I wouldn't deal with the Hawks either. Remember their dealings with North for Hay and Thompson. Then again Rocket rarely gets shafted.

Anyway no to Boyle from me (even if his dad did play for us), but Thorp would be of interest at the correct price.

Because of our need for a tall forward managers will use us to try to up their client's price or negotiating position (Robertson last year).[/QUOTE]

See Ryan O'Keefe.

Kosi for Ray and or a 2nd/3rd rounder is fine by me.

 

[jeemak]

Makes me sick the way Hawthorn overrate their players.

Higgins is a future leader of our club, IMO, and one of the few first round draft selections that Clayton has got correct.

It is a shame that some clubs don't deal well from the players perspective, but you can understand them wanting to maintain depth on thier lists.

P.S. I hardly think Murphy, McMahon (debatable), Cooney, Griffen, Williams, Higgins and Everitt (too early to tell perhaps) count only as a few (with the misses being Power, Walsh and Ray). But that's another argument that has been done to death.

 

[Mutt]

Didn't the Hawks want our pick 5 OR Higgins for Boyle last year? That was the rumour going around, and if true, the Hawks will be a club NOT TO trade with, and one would imagine that Thorp is rated higher than Boyle.

Rocket is as sharp as they come as evidenced by our trading performance under him. Trading should really just be a business transaction - you either construct a deal both parties agree to, or you don't. Rocket is unlikely to be shafted by the Hawks, or anyone alse, unless unwarranted pressure is put on him by the Club to trade for/draft a power forward for immediate impact.

I'd love to see Hall or another power forward with us next year, as I'm sure Rocket would, but I would be surprised and disappointed if Rocket was under so much pressure that we resulted in over-paying.

Usually the clubs who claim to have been shafted have either botched their due diligence, or have simply fallen in love with the deal and been out-negotiated because they were prepared to pay too much.

I have faith that the Bulldogs have the capacity and composure to trade well in 2008.

 

[acker]

Rocket is as sharp as they come as evidenced by our trading performance under him. Trading should really just be a business transaction - you either construct a deal both parties agree to, or you don't. Rocket is unlikely to be shafted by the Hawks, or anyone alse, unless unwarranted pressure is put on him by the Club to trade for/draft a power forward for immediate impact.

I'd love to see Hall or another power forward with us next year, as I'm sure Rocket would, but I would be surprised and disappointed if Rocket was under so much pressure that we resulted in over-paying.

Usually the clubs who claim to have been shafted have either botched their due diligence, or have simply fallen in love with the deal and been out-negotiated because they were prepared to pay too much.

I have faith that the Bulldogs have the capacity and composure to trade well in 2008.

I'm not as enthusiastic about Rockets trading performance last year. I thought his original chasing of Russell Robertson was a bad choice going after an older player with dodgy legs that we did not need.

Hudson worked well but again the draft picks we gave made that a fair deal for a 28 year old who had 12 months previously come off a substantial knee injury.

Jordan was on his way anyway, pick 19 was a fair but not sensational deal for a 23 year old who had played over 100 games.

Welsh fell into our lap in the PSD.

The technical drafting highlite was probably Scott Clayton and the Eagles negotiating an exchange of draft picks without players.

I feel more comfortable that Fantasia will be ultimately calling the shots more this trading period than Rocket.

 

[vandalay industries]

Kosi is staying at the Saints as reported in today's Herald-Sun. Which is good news as far as I'm concerned...have to pay way over the odds for him.

 

[The Boy From Brasil]

I'm not as enthusiastic about Rockets trading performance last year. I thought his original chasing of Russell Robertson was a bad choice going after an older player with dodgy legs that we did not need.

I agree aker. Thank god Robbo didn't come to us. Could you imagine?

I was pleased with Hudson and aker, but I get the feeling that our trading or attempted trading smacks of desperation. We seem to be interested in anyone who comes out of contract rather than having a strategic plan and sticking to it, such as Geelong and Hawthorn are.

It always worries me when a club chases older players when the coach is in the last year of his contract.

 

[Mutt]

I'm not as enthusiastic about Rockets trading performance last year. I thought his original chasing of Russell Robertson was a bad choice going after an older player with dodgy legs that we did not need.

Hudson worked well but again the draft picks we gave made that a fair deal for a 28 year old who had 12 months previously come off a substantial knee injury.

Jordan was on his way anyway, pick 19 was a fair but not sensational deal for a 23 year old who had played over 100 games.

Welsh fell into our lap in the PSD.

The technical drafting highlite was probably Scott Clayton and the Eagles negotiating an exchange of draft picks without players.

I feel more comfortable that Fantasia will be ultimately calling the shots more this trading period than Rocket.

Well it is easy with the benefit of hindsight to throw rocks and it is easy to believe whatever rumours are around about why we didn't take Robinson. We can only judge Eades' performance on what did happen and how those trades turned out. I'm yet to hear an argument that any of his trades have been bad.

It would be interesting to know later how much respective influence Eade, Clayton and Fantasia have over the trade/drafting period. Fantasia would try to call all the shots I imagine. That is probably how it should be too.

 

[acker]

I agree aker. Thank god Robbo didn't come to us. Could you imagine?

I was pleased with Hudson and aker, but I get the feeling that our trading or attempted trading smacks of desperation. We seem to be interested in anyone who comes out of contract rather than having a strategic plan and sticking to it, such as Geelong and Hawthorn are.

It always worries me when a club chases older players when the coach is in the last year of his contract.

I forgot Tim Callan who was a good trade (younger guy) but again Geelong got a fair price for a guy they were looking to move off their list.

I have the same fear about overdoing the signing of older players. That's why I am glad we now have James Fantasia in an overseeing position signing off on these trade deals, to ensure we have checks and balances rather than giving the coach open slather.

At the end of the day we have hired Rocket to coach, not to trade.

He is welcolme to suggest and I am sure he is the major point of reference in suggesting what we need trade wise. But I am glad we have the likes of Fantasia in control of our ultimate trade move outcomes.

 

[acker]

Well it is easy with the benefit of hindsight to throw rocks and it is easy to believe whatever rumours are around about why we didn't take Robinson. We can only judge Eades' performance on what did happen and how those trades turned out. I'm yet to hear an argument that any of his trades have been bad.

It would be interesting to know later how much respective influence Eade, Clayton and Fantasia have over the trade/drafting period. Fantasia would try to call all the shots I imagine. That is probably how it should be too.

I put my reasons down which I think were open knowledge in regards to the 2007 trade period for the dogs.

How about you do the same in response rather than chucking a couple of scud yonnies yourself

Fantasia is the Western Bulldogs General Manager of Football Operations.

Eade is under him in that department. Fantasia is where the buck stops in that department this year, so I am sure he will be looking closely at the shots, weather you imagine it or not.

 

[The Coon Dog]

At the end of the day we have hired Rocket to coach, not to trade.

As the coach he should be the decision maker, afterall it's a waste of time trading for a player the coach doesn't want.

 

[scooter600x]

I'm not as enthusiastic about Rockets trading performance last year. I thought his original chasing of Russell Robertson was a bad choice going after an older player with dodgy legs that we did not need.

I can absolutely tell you that Rocket never intended to trade anything for Robertson.

He did think we were a chance to pick him up in the PSD in which case we would have taken him.

 

[acker]

As the coach he should be the decision maker, afterall it's a waste of time trading for a player the coach doesn't want.

I disagree

And think the point The Boy from Brasil makes following is a good reason a few posts back why we need checks and balances.

It always worries me when a club chases older players when the coach is in the last year of his contract.

In my opinion you could expand "last year" to last years.

Plus the club recently went through an extensive reveiw process last year that determined the need for us to hire a General Manager of Football Operations (James Fantasia)

I'm sure Rocket will be consulted at all stages, so it would be extremely unlikely that the club would get involved in trading for a player that Rocket does not want.

But it is possible that a player Rocket does want, may end up being rejected by Fantasia for reasons such as possibly too old wanting too long a contract, too expensive or even too disruptive to the team.

 

[acker]

I can absolutely tell you that Rocket never intended to trade anything for Robertson.

He did think we were a chance to pick him up in the PSD in which case we would have taken him.

Has Rodney Eade told you that directly ?

 

[The Coon Dog]

I disagree

And think the point The Boy from Brasil makes following is a good reason a few posts back why we need checks and balances.



In my opinion you could expand "last year" to last years.

Plus the club recently went through an extensive reveiw process last year that determined the need for us to hire a General Manager of Football Operations (James Fantasia)

I'm sure Rocket will be consulted at all stages, so it would be extremely unlikely that the club would get involved in trading for a player that Rocket does not want.

But it is possible that a player Rocket does want, may end up being rejected by Fantasia for reasons such as possibly too old wanting too long a contract, too expensive or even too disruptive to the team.

We'll agree to disagree.

 

[Mutt]

I put my reasons down which I think were open knowledge in regards to the 2007 trade period for the dogs.

How about you do the same in response rather than chucking a couple of scud yonnies yourself

Fantasia is the Western Bulldogs General Manager of Football Operations.

Eade is under him in that department. Fantasia is where the buck stops in that department this year, so I am sure he will be looking closely at the shots, weather you imagine it or not.

I'm not sure what you are getting at Acker - I'm trying to say that despite any rumours etc. the Robbo deal did not get done. Whether that is because someone (?) over-ruled Eade, or whether there was some other reason, the likes of you and I will probably never know. The bottom line is, the deal was not done so let's not hang the guy for a deal that wasn't done (and which may have turned out to be fantastic if it had eventuated.) The whole Robo-gate conversation is unfair on Eade and is an academic exercise based on speculation and rumour.

I'm just a bit surprised I guess at how much the bullies supporters on here criticise the club or personnel and players in the club. We have had very good reason to do so in the past but I think in 2008 we have had a pretty good year and on-field are poised to be a force for several years at least. Off field, the club is going ok and is in very safe hands. I guess I'm still glass half full.

 

[The Boy From Brasil]

As the coach he should be the decision maker, afterall it's a waste of time trading for a player the coach doesn't want.

I disagree in part TCD.

Your second part of the sentence is valid though, any player that is traded in to the side, should be with the coaches approval. There is no point trading for a player from another club that a coach doesn't want.

But the decision to trade for a player from another club in exchange for draft picks or another player, shouldn't be the sole decision by the coach. This is why we have list managers. To ensure that the team is competitive next year and the next 5 years. Coaches realistically know that their employment span is finite and the temptation would be to try and bolster next years list with as many experienced players from other clubs to achieve a high ladder position and thus extend their coaching contract. As most coaching contracts are 500k plus, you can see the temptation to do this.

Many coaches have gone the top up route, to the teams disadvantage many years later. Pagan for Carlton, Frawley for Richmond. Even Harvey and Lyon tended to go that way last year.

Richmond have even gone one step futher this year and have taken Wallace completely out of the list management process, for fear of him doing the top up to prolong his contract.

I don't propose we do that with Eade, I think Eade should be a big part of the trade and list management process. But I think we need someone(Fantasia) to properly manage the list so we have a chance of a premiership in 5 years time as well as next year. I don't particularly want to load up on 30 year olds to try and buy us a premiership next year or the year after, miss out, and then have the big slide down the ladder when GC17 and the west sydney team will have the bulk of the early draft picks.