Trades and draft selections

[dogwatch]

Repeat after me... WE DO NOT TRADE AWAY HIGH DRAFT PICKS.

We have fallen foul of this so many times over the years, as I and others (notably TBFB) have repeatedly pointed out.

For instance the Harbrow pick would be worth about #23 this year but in 2012-14 it could be worth anywhere between pick 2 and 19 depending where we finish. If we got Sherman with it we would be getting a product with a known ceiling value (i.e. he's highly unlikely to suddenly improve 25-50%) compared to the chance of getting an 18yo who becomes a real gun (eg Cal Ward came in at pick 19, Mundy 19, Hayes 11, J.Riewoldt 13, Rioli 12, etc). It's this type of gun player who will take us to a flag, not a handful of useful B-graders like Sherman. We have to give ourselves a chance at picking up a few stars. So trading away high picks will destroy our future.

That said, I'm seriously worried that's exactly what Fantasia and Eade are about to do!

 

[bulldogsman]

Repeat after me... WE DO NOT TRADE AWAY HIGH DRAFT PICKS.

We have fallen foul of this so many times over the years, as I and others (notably TBFB) have repeatedly pointed out.

For instance the Harbrow pick would be worth about #23 this year but in 2012-14 it could be worth anywhere between pick 2 and 19 depending where we finish. If we got Sherman with it we would be getting a product with a known ceiling value (i.e. he's highly unlikely to suddenly improve 25-50%) compared to the chance of getting an 18yo who becomes a real gun (eg Cal Ward came in at pick 19, Mundy 19, Hayes 11, J.Riewoldt 13, Rioli 12, etc). It's this type of gun player who will take us to a flag, not a handful of useful B-graders like Sherman. We have to give ourselves a chance at picking up a few stars. So trading away high picks will destroy our future.

That said, I'm seriously worried that's exactly what Fantasia and Eade are about to do!

I just assumed we would be getting a pick at the end of round 1 regardless of where we finish for Harbrow. Is this correct?

 

[The Coon Dog]

I just assumed we would be getting a pick at the end of round 1 regardless of where we finish for Harbrow. Is this correct?

Correct, so the best we could do would be pick 19.

 

[dogwatch]

Yep, my mistake. But for pick 19 you could still have got a Cal Ward, David Mundy or Brad Green over the last 10-12 years. And similar quality thereabouts (picks 20-24). See Bubba's posts in the Harbrow Compensation thread.

My point still stands.

 

[ozdevil1978]

im hoping we get sherman and rosa would be good inclusions to our side! and sorry to c if hill goes as well i think a good pre season and weights he could go into the midfield remember his debut game when he came in for scotty west he got 20 possies in the midfield!! imo build his engine up!!!!!!

 

[Royale]

Yep, my mistake. But for pick 19 you could still have got a Cal Ward, David Mundy or Brad Green over the last 10-12 years. And similar quality thereabouts (picks 20-24). See Bubba's posts in the Harbrow Compensation thread.

My point still stands.

You don't think we've recruited enough raw young talent in the previous drafts?

Ward, Reid, Roughead, Moles, Wood and several others spring to mind. Not to mention we do actually get two great draft picks in Libba and Wallis. If we weren't getting both our F/S picks then i'd be all for saving our trades for rookies.

But since that isn't the case I think it's no big deal if we go for a more seasoned player.

 

[go the dogs]

I think we need another bigger bodied forward more than anything after watching us this year we were to predictable going to Hall. Jarred Grant will never be a key big body target but will be a very handy lead up CHF type like murphy can play, and Liam jones will need another year or 2 to develop.

People are saying Josh Hill wants to go back home so i dont see why we shouldnt try and get Tarrant. I feel we still have a strong list next year if we stay injury free. Tarrant could go to full back for 2 years and as well as him have Williams and Morris as the 3 talls then play Murphy acroos half back all year.

Then up forward we can have Grant play a murphy role as the agile lead up target then PLay Hall and Lake as the 2 key targets up forward. Lake is a very very good defender the best in the comp, but i feel he could be a very damaging forward as he often aoutmarks forward when not in the bvest position. Imagine him with the ball kicked to his advantage majority of the time. and also if need be we could swap him and Tarrant in a game if Tarrant is getting beaten as we know he can play forward. This will also give Barry alot more 1 on 1 contest as oppostion defenders will find it harder to peel off as we have the 2 targets look at Riewoldt and Kosi, Riewoldt gets alto of 1 on 1s.

I would also try and get Faulks in the draft just as the extra cover down back. What are peoples thoughts on this.

 

[The Boy From Brasil]

You don't think we've recruited enough raw young talent in the previous drafts?

Ward, Reid, Roughead, Moles, Wood and several others spring to mind. Not to mention we do actually get two great draft picks in Libba and Wallis. If we weren't getting both our F/S picks then i'd be all for saving our trades for rookies.

But since that isn't the case I think it's no big deal if we go for a more seasoned player.

It depends on:

1)How good they are;can you see them playing in a premiership side

2)If we require that type of player

3) How old they are? eg Will they be at their peak when we are in full tilt for a premiership in 2 or so years time.

Previous our trading strategy was to target for specific needs eg Hudson because we lacked a quality ruckman, Hall because we lacked a big target up forward. These were top quality players, but older players with limited games left in them. But it didn't matter because we were in premiership mode so the age wasn't relevant.And we never gave up higher than a third round pick for them either. We always kept our first and second round for future stars.

The situation has changed. We are now building for a premiership with our young guns and trying to get games into them. And we are building for a premiership. This is the main point that many people forget. It is a total waste of time wasting draft picks on recycled players who will never be premiership players. Tambling, Sherman, Rosa, McKinley, etc are just good ordinary players who won't help us to build a premiership side.

If you waste picks on ordinary players it has a detrimental effect in two ways as can be seen by Vossy's strategy.

1)You are wasting a pick that could have been used on a talented youngster

2)You are clogging your list with an ordinary player that will either just play games for Williamstown or worse play in the seniors and take games that could have been used on young players.


Everyone has their own opinion. But for example, I would much use a late round 1 or round 2, and draft a potential star for us rather than use it on a second hand player that is just a depth player. For me, unless there is a real quality player available or a young potential quality player, I would stick with the draft process. If you want recycled, you can always use the rookie list to give players second chances.


There are many examples of how using early draft choices for recycled players can go horribly wrong. There was a thread two years ago where many posters wanted us to go for Lovett, and because we had a F/S in Cordy, we could use our two second round picks. If we had of done this, we would not have Roughhead or Jones now and we wouldn't have Lovett either.

 

[gangsta deluxe]

People are too critical of Sherman. He got that contract for a reason. I think he would be a great pick up for one of our picks.

 

[Axe Man]

im hoping we get sherman and rosa would be good inclusions to our side! and sorry to c if hill goes as well i think a good pre season and weights he could go into the midfield remember his debut game when he came in for scotty west he got 20 possies in the midfield!! imo build his engine up!!!!!!

Nobody remembers this because it didn't happen. He had 10 possessions, if he had 20 he probably would have got another game that season.

Still I would like to see him stay, he has plenty of upside.

 

[ozdevil1978]

he got 19 possies sorry and why would he stay in when west was coming back the next week!!

 

[stefoid]

What about Leroy Jetta or Eddie Betts? (Betts is only 23)

 

[Dogs Rule]

If we ended trade week with Sherman and Rosa for the loss of Harbrow, Hill or Everitt and maybe a draft pick I would be happy.

 

[RangaInTeal]

Draft news;
Paul Puopolo will be at the Bulldogs next year. http://www.norwoodfc.com.au/THE_TEAM/PLAYERPROFILES/21.aspx

 

[stefoid]

Draft news;
Paul Puopolo will be at the Bulldogs next year. http://www.norwoodfc.com.au/THE_TEAM/PLAYERPROFILES/21.aspx

geez, I thought you directed me to a gay dating website there for a second

 

[samass03]

seems like a decent fit but has he been invited to the draft combine?

 

[RangaInTeal]

seems like a decent fit but has he been invited to the draft combine?

LOL... here we go.

7 clubs have enquired about Paul to Norwood, Paul has been in regular talks with the Doggies and when Jarrad Harbrow left he had another phone call almost assuring him a spot on the list. Norwood did not off him a contract for 2011 they are that convinced he is getting picked up. So if he is not at the dogs, he will be at, Hawthorn, Port, Essendon, Fremantle, St. Kilda or Gold Coast.

So combine or not, he will be selected in either the draft or the rookie draft this year!

 

[Bubba_5]

LOL... here we go.

7 clubs have enquired about Paul to Norwood, Paul has been in regular talks with the Doggies and when Jarrad Harbrow left he had another phone call almost assuring him a spot on the list. Norwood did not off him a contract for 2011 they are that convinced he is getting picked up. So if he is not at the dogs, he will be at, Hawthorn, Port, Essendon, Fremantle, St. Kilda or Gold Coast.

So combine or not, he will be selected in either the draft or the rookie draft this year!

Thankyou RIT, can you tell us much about the way he plays? Is he quick? A good kick? Smooth mover?

 

[Axe Man]

im hoping we get sherman and rosa would be good inclusions to our side! and sorry to c if hill goes as well i think a good pre season and weights he could go into the midfield remember his debut game when he came in for scotty west he got 20 possies in the midfield!! imo build his engine up!!!!!!

Nobody remembers this because it didn't happen. He had 10 possessions, if he had 20 he probably would have got another game that season.

Still I would like to see him stay, he has plenty of upside.

he got 19 possies sorry and why would he stay in when west was coming back the next week!!

What on earth are you talking about? 20, 19, are you just pulling numbers out of thin air? I will repeat he had 10 possessions according to the stats I could find: http://finalsiren.com/MatchDetails.asp?GameID=4576&Code=e44d6f912b0a1361af46db22cb5ddf74

Anyway, the number of possessions he had isn't really important. My memory of his debut was that it wasn't overly impressive. It gave him a taste of senior footy and he came back into the team in 2008 and preformed well.

Are you are trying to say he had a great debut but couldn't get another game in the last 5 matches of that year (of which we won zero) because Scott West was in the team? They are hardly similar players.

If you want to put a case for Hill to play in the midfield, fine. Just don't use false information to support your argument.

 

[RangaInTeal]

Thankyou RIT, can you tell us much about the way he plays? Is he quick? A good kick? Smooth mover?

Jarrad Harbrow version 2

A smal Back Pocketer, shuts down his opponent well, Tackling and presure are his key attributes in a negating aspect. Offencivly his ability to run and cary the ball, bouncing and delivering further up the field to leading forwards, kicking to grass or even occasionaly the odd goal.

Was one of Norwoods best against a strong Centrals team in the Prelim final on the weekend doing a relativly good job on Callinan at stages. Has also played as a small forward.

Collingwood were very keen on him as a 17/18 year old but advised him his lack of height cost him. THat was when he was playing as a midfielder.

I actually think if you guys get him and Hargrave's is injury free next year, the harbrow loss will not be as significant as I suspect!

 

[The_Bulldogs_Bite]

Thanks for the info.

His bio reads directly to our needs, be it as a small running defender or a small forward.

 

[Gus]

Norwood lads represent.

Hopefully he goes a little better and is a bit more liked on here than our other Redleg recruit, a certain overexcitable ruckman.

 

[SCRAY72]

If we ended trade week with Sherman and Rosa for the loss of Harbrow, Hill or Everitt and maybe a draft pick I would be happy.

Lets not get carried away,happy to try and improve the list but we don't have to have a fire sale.

 

[Slattery_20]

People are too critical of Sherman. He got that contract for a reason. I think he would be a great pick up for one of our picks.

I think he knows he's gone and can't get his head right to play.

What will your 3rd pick be? Surely too late to get a half-decent player with? F-S kids will be #1 & #2.

 

[RangaInTeal]

What will your 3rd pick be? Surely too late to get a half-decent player with? F-S kids will be #1 & #2.

I could see Brisbane doing something like Everitt and 3rd rounder for Sherman.

But I think he will end up at Richmond!