Trades and draft selections

[Testekill]

Well, West Coast are on record as saying that they are prepared to trade pick 4 if the right offer came along.

How about this deal:

Everitt + Josh Hill + Stack + Our end of first round compo pick

FOR

Their pick 4.

Essentially we would be swapping 2 talented fringe players who have played a number of senior games, plus a smokey, plus our end of first round pick for 1 high pick...

JTG, I consider myself a polite person. So it is with great pains that I say that this may be the worst suggestion that I've ever seen. We would be taken over a barrel with that offer.

 

[The Boy From Brasil]

JTG, I consider myself a polite person. So it is with great pains that I say that this may be the worst suggestion that I've ever seen. We would be taken over a barrel with that offer.

I liked the proposal.

Think it would be worse than tattslotto odds of ever being seriously looked at(we would be laughed out of the room) but like the positive outcome scenario for us and that we end up pick 4. Like to see posters combining their lateral thinking skills with some extreme optimism to come up with trade solutions that work in our favour

 

[P-MONEY]

Name them.

Gia, Eagleton, Shaggy just to name a few softies..

 

[Leezorr]

Say in 2004 when we had pick 3 would you trade our first pick for three duds that cant get a game and a worse draft pick...............................

Duds are duds groups them together and they dont get better.

A better way is looking at it is waht are those players worth individually?

Hill = 2nd to 3rd rounder imo say pick 40
Stack - I dont think we will get a pick for him, maybe a swapping of draft picks say pick 70
Everitt - Early 2nd round say pick 25

So are picks 25, 26, 40 and 70 worth pick 4

No

 

[Lightning_Mcqueen95]

Name them.

Probably quicker to name the ones that have those quilities. Picken, Ward, Hudson, Griffen this year, Liam Jones thought he tried very hard, Morris, and Lake for the most part. Hall also may get a mention.

Buts thats a side issue back to the Trades and Drafts. Just don't get why we would shop Everitt and not other players?

 

[Mofra]

Gia, Eagleton, Shaggy just to name a few softies..

Gia was 5th on our average tackles list, the factor we are probably weakest in. Shaggy was the one guy the players hated boxing against (prior to Bazza joining us).

If it's intensity or toughness, I don't think you're targetting the right players.

 

[Pigdog]

Probably quicker to name the ones that have those quilities. Picken, Ward, Hudson, Griffen this year, Liam Jones thought he tried very hard, Morris, and Lake for the most part. Hall also may get a mention.

Meh.

Buts thats a side issue back to the Trades and Drafts. Just don't get why we would shop Everitt and not other players?

Which other players should be shopped around.

 

[P-MONEY]

Gia was 5th on our average tackles list, the factor we are probably weakest in. Shaggy was the one guy the players hated boxing against (prior to Bazza joining us).

If it's intensity or toughness, I don't think you're targetting the right players.

Gia is a self confessed ducker.. Shag is light built.. No presence in him at all.. I look at him and he doesn't scare me, can you imagine his opponent playing on him..

On another note i will go on file and say if we draft/trade R.Tambling, i will give up watching football and spend my money on another sport which isn't so pathetic. I heckle Richard because he's simply, Shiot..

 

[boydsno1]

Ask black what he thinks of shaggy. Broke his jaw with one jab.

Gia may be a confessed ducker but it doesn't hide the fact that he still gets his hands dirty.

 

[Lightning_Mcqueen95]

Meh.



Which other players should be shopped around.

I think we have to many Mids of same type. I would put one of them up for Trade.

 

[josh the gent]

I liked the proposal.

Think it would be worse than tattslotto odds of ever being seriously looked at(we would be laughed out of the room) but like the positive outcome scenario for us and that we end up pick 4. Like to see posters combining their lateral thinking skills with some extreme optimism to come up with trade solutions that work in our favour

Thanks TBFB.

The amusing part was that Mofra said that West Coast would be highly unlikely to consider that deal as we were not giving enough for a pick that high.

Whilst Unotuchable thought we would be being bent over a barrel by West Coast if we made that deal!!

Ah, differing opinions.

I do like the idea of getting rid of Everitt now though. I am quite worried about the GW18 stealing him for nothing at the end of next year now, and I think a trade for him out is the only way. I don't particularly like the thought of losing him, however don't see any other way out of the pickle we're in.

As a side note, wouldn't mind a straight swap of Walker for Everitt, although Walker is a bit older that Everitt, I think his best is quite a bit better than Everitt's, who mainly has potential.

A second trade we should be gunning for would be Tambling. He would add a bit of nip around the forward line, and also an extra midfield rotation. Perhaps he would be worth swapping our 1st round compo pick for. I would be satisfied with that.

Finally, if Drummond wants to come to the Dogs, then great - he is quality, but it must be remembered that he did his knee this year, so he won't really be right until 2012 methinks.

 

[jeemak]

I like the idea of hanging on to our comp pick if possible. It may have some currency over the next couple of drafts.

While I can understand your position TBFB, I think that with two first rounders coming to us under F/S for most likely our first two picks we can be happy that we've had a more than reasonable dip at some fresh talent. Our list needs some rejuvination from players that are ready to go though, if only to have them come in and put immediate selection pressure on our already established listed players. Remember, when you lose Johnson, Eagleton, Akermanis, Harbrow and possibly Hahn (not confident he'll be retained - although, he probably will) as well as Callan that's a big gap of experienced players that can perform a role for us even if not in the best 22 when the list is healthy. If we don't in some way fill these gaps with ready made players we're rolling the dice expecting Reid, Jones, Hooper and whoever remains of Stack, Everitt and Hill to be performing consistently. And frankly, for various reasons these players are vulnerable to not stepping up when required.

I've been fairly impressed with the way we've traded our way to higher draft picks and drafted under Eade. His hand as been forced somewhat due to F/S opportunities this year, but I still back him and the recruiting team to trade responsibly.

 

[The Boy From Brasil]

While I can understand your position TBFB, I think that with two first rounders coming to us under F/S for most likely our first two picks we can be happy that we've had a more than reasonable dip at some fresh talent. Our list needs some rejuvination from players that are ready to go though, if only to have them come in and put immediate selection pressure on our already established listed players. Remember, when you lose Johnson, Eagleton, Akermanis, Harbrow and possibly Hahn (not confident he'll be retained - although, he probably will) as well as Callan that's a big gap of experienced players that can perform a role for us even if not in the best 22 when the list is healthy. If we don't in some way fill these gaps with ready made players we're rolling the dice expecting Reid, Jones, Hooper and whoever remains of Stack, Everitt and Hill to be performing consistently. And frankly, for various reasons these players are vulnerable to not stepping up when required

I understand what you are saying. And you argue your point well. And your argument is consistent with the logic that we will be aiming at a flag next year so we cannot rely on the younger players to step up that quickly, and that we need to trade for needs or replenish some experienced players. I understand this argument and it is what most posters on here would think as well, hence their wanting to trade for this player or that player.

Where I differ to you and most on the board is that I don't think we can win a premiership next year, so my priority would be to get games into our young talent in the next year or two and try to get 40-50 games into them. This would be my main priority. Finishing high up the ladder or playing in another prelim final would be great but that would be icing on the cake for me. I am more looking to 2012 than 2011 for the reason that I think it is when we will have our best chance for a premiership. We will still have our A graders in Cooney and Griffen and hopefully by then, some of the young guns would be on the way to become A graders too. We just don't have enough Elite players or match winners at the moment to win us that flag, as good as the side has been over the past three years.

So, with all that in mind, I would be looking for early draft pick/s this years to try and get that potential elite quick midfielder or other type of player that will develop quicker than the talls we have drafted over the past few years. I just think that even though this way is slower than what supporters would prefer, it gives us a greater chance of a premiership. A more short term solution of giving up our comp pick for an okay player might appeal to some posters but IMO it doesn't take us closer to a premiership. We don't have a Riewoldt in our side, otherwise maybe I may think differently.

The F/S selections are great and we are so lucky to have this current batch plus Cordy two years ago. But I still prefer another early pick to compliment F/S selections. The reason why is that with F/S selections you are getting great value for draft pick(usually the talent is in excess of the draft selection) but you are not choosing what type of player we are getting. Wallis and Libba are great value, but we still need quick midfielders going forward into the future, and the best way to try and get a quality one is with a high/er draft pick. It is easy to fall into the trap of thinking that because you have great F/S selections, that is enough, and you can get away with trading and don't need any other high draft picks. North Melbourne did this some years ago with Jesse Smith and it has come back to bite them.

Anyway, that is just my theory, which is probably oddball or different to most posters, but there is no right or wrong in this, just differing personal opinion on the best way to win a flag.

I've been fairly impressed with the way we've traded our way to higher draft picks and drafted under Eade. His hand as been forced somewhat due to F/S opportunities this year, but I still back him and the recruiting team to trade responsibly.

Agree 100%. I am extremely grateful to Eade and the football department that even when we had our premiership window or were trying to win a flag in the last three years, we never used our early picks and even the third rounders we did use were for players that filled a specific need and were proven players. Similar to you, I have faith in our recruiting staff.

 

[FishCreekBandit]

First of im a bit let down with what we got with Harbrow. 2nd off i think we can not be to drastic with our changes in this off season.

We need to show faith in our younger players and if we can get someone like Walker then fine but we dont need need to go after a Roosa sort of player

 

[The Coon Dog]

I think we have to many Mids of same type. I would put one of them up for Trade.

Can I pretend I'm Pigdog?

Which one?

 

[FishCreekBandit]

Our first trade for Redemption 11

 

[josh the gent]

Where I differ to you and most on the board is that I don't think we can win a premiership next year, so my priority would be to get games into our young talent in the next year or two and try to get 40-50 games into them. This would be my main priority. Finishing high up the ladder or playing in another prelim final would be great but that would be icing on the cake for me. I am more looking to 2012 than 2011 for the reason that I think it is when we will have our best chance for a premiership. We will still have our A graders in Cooney and Griffen and hopefully by then, some of the young guns would be on the way to become A graders too. We just don't have enough Elite players or match winners at the moment to win us that flag, as good as the side has been over the past three years.

So, with all that in mind, I would be looking for early draft pick/s this years to try and get that potential elite quick midfielder or other type of player that will develop quicker than the talls we have drafted over the past few years. I just think that even though this way is slower than what supporters would prefer, it gives us a greater chance of a premiership. A more short term solution of giving up our comp pick for an okay player might appeal to some posters but IMO it doesn't take us closer to a premiership. We don't have a Riewoldt in our side, otherwise maybe I may think differently.

Your idea has a lot of merit TBFB.

If you look at our list's main older players, here is the amount of seasons we can reasonably expect high-performance from the older players. To calc this I have said 1 for Hall, and 2 for Hudson, everyone else I have said number of years until they are 31 (being their last season):

1 year - Hall
2 years - Hudson, Gilbee, Hargrave
3 years - Murphy, Boyd, Gia, Lake
4 years - Cross, Morris

I guess if we use 2011 to get as many games into Jones, Grant, and Panos (who I want elevated), then our forward line will look quite formidible, even once Bazza has left, cos our forwards will have learned their craft off one of the best going around now.

However, this doesn't mean our flag chances are shot, far from it IMO. This year, we limped into the finals, dogged by injury and form, but the fact remains we led the Saints at half-time, and had we converted our opportunities in the second quarter (1.5 to 2.1) - we may very well have played in the GF last week.

We essentially retain the same team for next year, adding a fully fit Cooney, Griffen, Morris, etc, and we will be looking very, very strong.

I still think trading the compo pick is a fine idea too. The pick is wasted if we option it this, or next year, really it can only sensibly be used from 2012 onwards.

For me, I still think we should trade Everitt (who I expect to go to GW18 next year if we don't trade him) for Andrew Walker.

And I would also like to see us trade the compo pick to Richmond for Tambling.

Both players are only 23 or 24, and both have huge upside injuries / form permitting. Personally, I think we are planning for the future, and for a 2011 flag if we make those 2 trades happen...

 

[jeemak]

TBFB, my point wasn't raised considering flag prospects specifically. I think if we're to be competitive next year we need to trade.

 

[Pigdog]

So, with all that in mind, I would be looking for early draft pick/s this years to try and get that potential elite quick midfielder or other type of player that will develop quicker than the talls we have drafted over the past few years. I just think that even though this way is slower than what supporters would prefer, it gives us a greater chance of a premiership. A more short term solution of giving up our comp pick for an okay player might appeal to some posters but IMO it doesn't take us closer to a premiership. We don't have a Riewoldt in our side, otherwise maybe I may think differently.

The F/S selections are great and we are so lucky to have this current batch plus Cordy two years ago. But I still prefer another early pick to compliment F/S selections. The reason why is that with F/S selections you are getting great value for draft pick(usually the talent is in excess of the draft selection) but you are not choosing what type of player we are getting. Wallis and Libba are great value, but we still need quick midfielders going forward into the future, and the best way to try and get a quality one is with a high/er draft pick. It is easy to fall into the trap of thinking that because you have great F/S selections, that is enough, and you can get away with trading and don't need any other high draft picks. North Melbourne did this some years ago with Jesse Smith and it has come back to bite them.

Who are you willing to trade to get this pick?

You have written a heap of dialogue over the past few days on how you would love to get early picks, but have not given examples of how we can do it.

Trading Everitt, Hill or the like isn't going get you early picks and as explained we will have to give up a quality youngster to get these picks you are after....it ain't going to happen.

 

[Wonna2Jurrah]

I have now heard that you guys are in the hunt for the following:
A. Walker
J. Sherman
B. McKinnley
P. Vezspremi
N. Djekura &
A. Maric

And at the same time looking to hold onto your first two draft choices in order the pick up Wallis & Liberatore.

Surely you're not going to be able to get them all.

Everitt & Hill should be able to land you 2 of that list & Minson plus 3rd round pick might be able to get you one also but that'd be it.

Who on that list do you reckon you'd be able to land and would be your top priorities?

 

[Bulldog Joe]

I have now heard that you guys are in the hunt for the following:
A. Walker
J. Sherman
B. McKinnley
P. Vezspremi
N. Djekura &
A. Maric

And at the same time looking to hold onto your first two draft choices in order the pick up Wallis & Liberatore.

Surely you're not going to be able to get them all.

Everitt & Hill should be able to land you 2 of that list & Minson plus 3rd round pick might be able to get you one also but that'd be it.

Who on that list do you reckon you'd be able to land and would be your top priorities?

Pretty sure that the club would be looking at a maximum of 2 players to trade in.
First 2 draft picks will be committed next Tuesday before the trading starts.

If we get Walker or Sherman it may be enough. The others you mention would only rate as rookies for mine.

Wallis and Liberatore will probably be better players already than others on your list.

 

[The Boy From Brasil]

Who are you willing to trade to get this pick?

You have written a heap of dialogue over the past few days on how you would love to get early picks, but have not given examples of how we can do it.

Trading Everitt, Hill or the like isn't going get you early picks and as explained we will have to give up a quality youngster to get these picks you are after....it ain't going to happen.

It is an impossible question for me to answer because you have to judge each decision on its merits. You would go through the process of speaking to all the clubs as what happens every year, and each clubs expresses if they are interested or not interested in players on the list.

The way I would approach it is have a list of untouchables Cooney, Griffen, Lake etc etc plus the young stars you mentioned. They wouldn't be traded under any condition but you keep this list confidential. The rest, you keep your options open and wait to see if a particular club expresses any interest in some of our players and what they are willing to give up for it.

As said before, I would think Everitt may be worth a 20-25 pick. The under 20 pick which I would love to have, as you said might not be possible to obtain, but you listen to all the clubs and what they want, and you never know what can happen.

 

[stefoid]

I have now heard that you guys are in the hunt for the following:
A. Walker
J. Sherman
B. McKinnley
P. Vezspremi
N. Djekura &
A. Maric

And at the same time looking to hold onto your first two draft choices in order the pick up Wallis & Liberatore.

Surely you're not going to be able to get them all.

Everitt & Hill should be able to land you 2 of that list & Minson plus 3rd round pick might be able to get you one also but that'd be it.

Who on that list do you reckon you'd be able to land and would be your top priorities?

i.e. we are looking at quick midfielders and small forwards from the range that is available. Doesnt mean we want all of them.

 

[MYOB]

I have now heard that you guys are in the hunt for the following:
A. Walker
J. Sherman
B. McKinnley
P. Vezspremi
N. Djekura &
A. Maric

And at the same time looking to hold onto your first two draft choices in order the pick up Wallis & Liberatore.

Surely you're not going to be able to get them all.

Everitt & Hill should be able to land you 2 of that list & Minson plus 3rd round pick might be able to get you one also but that'd be it.

Who on that list do you reckon you'd be able to land and would be your top priorities?

You are forgetting the compensation pick we got for losing Harbrow.

 

[Pigdog]

Pretty sure that the club would be looking at a maximum of 2 players to trade in.
First 2 draft picks will be committed next Tuesday before the trading starts.

If we get Walker or Sherman it may be enough. The others you mention would only rate as rookies for mine.

Wallis and Liberatore will probably be better players already than others on your list.

I would think we would be after a few more than that.

We seriously lack running players and small forwards and with our draft position compromised by our F/S selections we have no other option than to trade for these types.